The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #26
    HomeYield WillKuenzel's Avatar
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    Fuzzy, how often do you full clean and snatch above 80-85%
    What is elite?
    "Those who work the hardest often complain the least." -anonymous
    Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.

  2. #27
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    You are not getting my point... how many times do i have to point to olympic lifters to make it clear what I am trying to convey, we lift at insane peeds as well as alot of heavy work, and we do it often. And seeing how we can adapt to such loading then why is so hard to beleive that higher frequncy will work to.

    The human body can adapt, i know it goes against all the mainstram beliefs but you would not bleive how much the human body can handle unassisted.
    You can point to Olympic lifting as much as you want, but that won't make it any better of a comparison. You're right, Oly lifting does use alot of speed but it uses a ton more technique than strength. Powerlifting uses more strength than technique. That doesn't mean that powerlifters are stronger than Oly lifters, but they are two different types of strength. Its like comparing Oly lifting to strongman, its not the same. 90% of a powerlifters max means that the powerlifter is using 90% of his strength period. Now 90% of a Oly lifters max doesn't mean that he's using 90% of his strength, it means that at much more weight his technique falls apart and he can't handle the weight. Not for lack of strength necessairly though

  3. #28
    Big Swinging Dick dxiw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    I don't think anyone is not getting your point Fuzzy, but you seem to be missing ours.

    For OLers, squatting is GPP for your skill/sport. For PLers, squatting IS the skill/sport. If Hossein Rezzazadeh decided to say to hell with OL and wanted to push his squat numbers as high as he could, I guarantee he would be NOT be squatting daily.
    While I do agree with your theory, I gotta say his squat is damn impressive:

    305 kg / 672lb for a couple reps - not ME

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHMkz0jf6dU&NR=1

    225lb @ 17% bodyfat, currently cutting
    Current lifts while cutting (all raw): bench 275x4, squat 365x8
    Estimated current maxes: 300 bench / 450 dead / 450 squat
    Competition / Gym PRs (from March 08)
    Bench: 325 raw / 385 loose shirt
    Deadlift: 450 raw ADFPF 04/26/08
    Squat: 405 raw

  4. #29
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dxiw View Post
    While I do agree with your theory, I gotta say his squat is damn impressive:
    I never said his squat was not impressive.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  5. #30
    Big Swinging Dick dxiw's Avatar
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    haha no worries, I wasn't trying to attack you, I just adding evidence that oly lifters are also strong as **** despite doing completely different training =D

    225lb @ 17% bodyfat, currently cutting
    Current lifts while cutting (all raw): bench 275x4, squat 365x8
    Estimated current maxes: 300 bench / 450 dead / 450 squat
    Competition / Gym PRs (from March 08)
    Bench: 325 raw / 385 loose shirt
    Deadlift: 450 raw ADFPF 04/26/08
    Squat: 405 raw

  6. #31
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    672 for reps? That's not all that impressive. Sorry.

  7. #32
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    I knew this was going to get good. Can't wait for Fuzzy's answers to Chris Mason's questions.


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  8. #33
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dxiw View Post
    haha no worries, I wasn't trying to attack you, I just adding evidence that oly lifters are also strong as **** despite doing completely different training =D
    No one is arguing that OLers aren't strong. It's off point completely.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  9. #34
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    672 for reps? That's not all that impressive. Sorry.
    Rhode, WTF are you talking about? Let's see YOU do it raw, ATF. Oh, and do it with about 5-7 reps left in the tank like he does. I have seen him front squatting that much weight.

    Sometimes you just make goofy comments...
    Last edited by chris mason; 02-23-2008 at 11:42 AM.


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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    Rhode, WTF are you talking about? Let's see YOU do it raw, ATF. Oh, and do it with about 5-7 reps left in the tank like he does. I have seen him front squatting that much weight.

    Sometimes you just make goofy comments...
    Oh, raw, ATF (Alcohol Tobacco Firearms? What do they have to do with squatting? Is the government putting restrictions on that, now?) in that case, it's still not that impressive. Sorry, my ideas of strength don't correlate with what you think is strong. Nothing goofy about that comment. It just doesn't impress me one little bit at all.

    So, Chris, you were there when he did it? The reason I ask is because you say he had 5-7 reps left in the tank. How do you know this? Did you ask him? That's the only way you could make that comment and not sound goofy. Otherwise, it's all speculation.

  11. #36
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    Oh, raw, ATF (Alcohol Tobacco Firearms? What do they have to do with squatting? Is the government putting restrictions on that, now?) in that case, it's still not that impressive. Sorry, my ideas of strength don't correlate with what you think is strong. Nothing goofy about that comment. It just doesn't impress me one little bit at all.

    So, Chris, you were there when he did it? The reason I ask is because you say he had 5-7 reps left in the tank. How do you know this? Did you ask him? That's the only way you could make that comment and not sound goofy. Otherwise, it's all speculation.
    Ok, just do it once, raw and deep as ****.
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  12. #37
    THUNDER THIGHS! Fuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    Ok, right. Now, you are saying that you squat 7 days per week?

    How many sets at those loads?

    How many days per week will you use over 400 lbs?
    Lets see.. this weeks squatting.

    Monday: Back squat 407 for 3x3
    Tuesday: front squat 352 for 2 reps.
    Wedensday: back squat 440 for 4x2
    Thursday: Front squats 330 for 3x2
    Friday: backs, a few singles with 440

    Quote Originally Posted by HomeYield View Post
    Fuzzy, how often do you full clean and snatch above 80-85%
    Every session? I usually use 90%.

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    672 for reps? That's not all that impressive. Sorry.
    You know Rhodes, I have said multiple times I hate being insolent, especially to men much bigger and strong and older then me who have done the rounds and deserve my utmost respect.

    But man, you are seriously in denial about strength sports and are almost acting like a little kid with his hands over ears saying lalalalala to block out and deny things you dont want to admit to.

    I read another comment by you saying that Olympic lifting is all technique and no strength. Really, can you honestly say that? i just want you to sit back and think on this. it takes NO sterngth, all technique to put 500+ pounds from the floor to your shoulder and then overhead.

    Once again, I hate being a little **** to you but your commens astound me
    Last edited by Fuzzy; 02-23-2008 at 05:37 PM.
    Being a strong teenager means nothing.

    My wrists hurt, but some people don't have wrists to be sore. My knees have tendinitis, but some people don't have legs to get tendinitis in. I seem to be going backwards with training, yet some people can't even walk let alone lift 400 pounds on a daily basis.

    Dust out the vagina, and keep on lifting.

  13. #38
    Team Stocky Member. Killa Kurt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    Rhode, WTF are you talking about? Let's see YOU do it raw, ATF. Oh, and do it with about 5-7 reps left in the tank like he does. I have seen him front squatting that much weight.

    Sometimes you just make goofy comments...


    He looks like he has quite a few reps in the tank....I'm sure you have an eye for things like this.
    Journal

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    "The squat rack is my church, the dead lift platform my temple."

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  14. #39
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    so you only do about 10 sets a week?

  15. #40
    THUNDER THIGHS! Fuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    so you only do about 10 sets a week?
    That was this weeks.

    Usually I do 5 sets of 3-5 reps with abou 400-420. or 300-350 for fronts.
    Being a strong teenager means nothing.

    My wrists hurt, but some people don't have wrists to be sore. My knees have tendinitis, but some people don't have legs to get tendinitis in. I seem to be going backwards with training, yet some people can't even walk let alone lift 400 pounds on a daily basis.

    Dust out the vagina, and keep on lifting.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    Lets see.. this weeks squatting.

    Monday: Back squat 407 for 3x3
    Tuesday: front squat 352 for 2 reps.
    Wedensday: back squat 440 for 4x2
    Thursday: Front squats 330 for 3x2
    Friday: backs, a few singles with 440



    Every session? I usually use 90%.



    You know Rhodes, I have said multiple times I hate being insolent, especially to men much bigger and strong and older then me who have done the rounds and deserve my utmost respect.

    But man, you are seriously in denial about strength sports and are almost acting like a little kid with his hands over ears saying lalalalala to block out and deny things you dont want to admit to.

    I read another comment by you saying that Olympic lifting is all technique and no strength. Really, can you honestly say that? i just want you to sit back and think on this. it takes NO sterngth, all technique to put 500+ pounds from the floor to your shoulder and then overhead.

    Once again, I hate being a little **** to you but your commens astound me
    Excuse you. I'm just not impressed with 670 for reps. I'm just not impressed. Saying I'm a child or something like that won't change it. I don't think it's that impressive. Sorry.

    As for OL, obviously, it takes some strength. To read my comment and take it for EXACTLY that, you're just stupid. That's nitpicking every little thing I have to say. But, OL is a lot more technique than strength. When you're working with 500lbs overhead, OBVIUOSLY that's impressive and takes some strength. If you want to split hairs, we can do that. Much like strongman, if I can clean 300lbs with NO TECHNIQUE whatsoever, it can't be that tough. Now, to move up in the sport, obviously it takes some strength and technique work.

    As far as being in denial about strength sports - what exactly do you mean? What I see in "strength" sports are a lot of weak people, trying to play themselves off as being strong. I have a very different view on what I consider strong. Am I strong? Yeah, in some movements I'm really strong. Not so much in others. But, I'm not that impressed with the fact that I stood up with 1000lbs when I was out of position and on my toes. But, I did it. I pulled 755 last weekend - it wasn't 800. I'm proud of my progress and what I can do, but never satisfied. So, when I don't think something is impressive, I'll say it. Can I do it - maybe?

    I train with 2 800lb benchers and Vincent has also benched 600 raw. I've watched him put 405 overhead with NO LEG DRIVE AT ALL! Some of the worst form I've ever seen. So, is 500lbs overhead that impressive to me? Yeah, but not so much that I'll suck a d#$k over it. It's all perception. I see strength in a different way than most, especially some on this board.

    If you take my comments the wrong way, I'm sorry. I think any quest for strength is great. As long as you make progress towards your golas, that's great. But, don't expect me to think something is impressive when it's not.

    Back to the topic, you can't PL squatting everyday. There are 2 other skilled lifts that need attention. If you squat everyday, how are you going to bench and deadlift? Not to mention the stress put on the elbows and shoulders with a low bar squat. And, when will you find time to train all of the assistance movements? Like it has been said before - OL and PL are 2 different animals.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by deeder View Post
    Ok, just do it once, raw and deep as ****.
    EASY! Been there - done that already. Next?

  18. #43
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    That was this weeks.

    Usually I do 5 sets of 3-5 reps with abou 400-420. or 300-350 for fronts.
    Hate to break it to you but a Pler on WS template will do close to twice that many sets of squatting just twice a week

  19. #44
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    Every session? I usually use 90%.
    You realize this will certainly change as you progress, right?
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  20. #45
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    Oh, raw, ATF (Alcohol Tobacco Firearms? What do they have to do with squatting? Is the government putting restrictions on that, now?) in that case, it's still not that impressive. Sorry, my ideas of strength don't correlate with what you think is strong. Nothing goofy about that comment. It just doesn't impress me one little bit at all.

    So, Chris, you were there when he did it? The reason I ask is because you say he had 5-7 reps left in the tank. How do you know this? Did you ask him? That's the only way you could make that comment and not sound goofy. Otherwise, it's all speculation.
    Did you watch the video?

    Have you seen the video of him front squatting over 600 lbs for an easy double?

    I repeat, let's see you come even close to the feat on video. If not, then you sure as heck should grant that man his due. How would you feel if I said your lifts are unimpressive (I do NOT feel that way)?

    That is a big raw lift any way you want to slice it. To call it anything else is folly.

    If you want to be a stubborn guy and not admit it that is just ****ing stupid.

    As you are a stubborn guy, at least online, I will not try to convince you further.


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  21. #46
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    Lets see.. this weeks squatting.

    Monday: Back squat 407 for 3x3
    Tuesday: front squat 352 for 2 reps.
    Wedensday: back squat 440 for 4x2
    Thursday: Front squats 330 for 3x2
    Friday: backs, a few singles with 440



    Every session? I usually use 90%.



    You know Rhodes, I have said multiple times I hate being insolent, especially to men much bigger and strong and older then me who have done the rounds and deserve my utmost respect.

    But man, you are seriously in denial about strength sports and are almost acting like a little kid with his hands over ears saying lalalalala to block out and deny things you dont want to admit to.

    I read another comment by you saying that Olympic lifting is all technique and no strength. Really, can you honestly say that? i just want you to sit back and think on this. it takes NO sterngth, all technique to put 500+ pounds from the floor to your shoulder and then overhead.

    Once again, I hate being a little **** to you but your commens astound me

    Ok, first, if you are doing 4 sets of 2 reps with 440 lbs then your 1RM is considerably higher than you claimed.

    Next, performing heavy back squats 3 days per week with low reps is good, but not exactly an amazing adaptation.

    Finally, it begs the question of whether or not less volume would get you stronger quicker.

    Anyway, you are a very strong young man, but I think your ideas are not exactly "correct" when it comes to comparison of training styles and what works optimally for various sports.


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  22. #47
    Team Stocky Member. Killa Kurt's Avatar
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    What does a man have to do, to be considered strong, and get some props anymore?
    Journal

    Before you go to train everyday, think about the less fortunate and what they would give to just have the opportunity to be training like a madman.

    "The squat rack is my church, the dead lift platform my temple."

    Team Stocky - "It's not a hobby, it's a lifestyle."
    The Rawmighty Team Stocky.

  23. #48
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killa Kurt View Post
    What does a man have to do, to be considered strong, and get some props anymore?
    Squeeze into 3-5 layers of polyester, 2.5m knee wraps, a belt, wrist wraps and then take at least 1000lbs 3+ inches above parallel without having to walk it out of a rack.
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  24. #49
    THUNDER THIGHS! Fuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    Ok, first, if you are doing 4 sets of 2 reps with 440 lbs then your 1RM is considerably higher than you claimed.

    Next, performing heavy back squats 3 days per week with low reps is good, but not exactly an amazing adaptation.

    Finally, it begs the question of whether or not less volume would get you stronger quicker.

    Anyway, you are a very strong young man, but I think your ideas are not exactly "correct" when it comes to comparison of training styles and what works optimally for various sports.
    I singled 462, I never really get to go true max.

    I don't kow if Im correct, I probably way waaaay off the mark, i just had an idea and blurted it out and now imsitting back and letting people hash it out for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by deeder View Post
    Squeeze into 3-5 layers of polyester, 2.5m knee wraps, a belt, wrist wraps and then take at least 1000lbs 3+ inches above parallel without having to walk it out of a rack.
    Pretty much... I mean I have seen footage of Bulgarian supers and Reza squatting 950ish but seeing as it isnt 1000 then they cant be strong.
    Being a strong teenager means nothing.

    My wrists hurt, but some people don't have wrists to be sore. My knees have tendinitis, but some people don't have legs to get tendinitis in. I seem to be going backwards with training, yet some people can't even walk let alone lift 400 pounds on a daily basis.

    Dust out the vagina, and keep on lifting.

  25. #50
    Team Stocky Member. Killa Kurt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deeder View Post
    Squeeze into 3-5 layers of polyester, 2.5m knee wraps, a belt, wrist wraps and then take at least 1000lbs 3+ inches above parallel without having to walk it out of a rack.
    That's what it seems like, I was just wondering if I was the only person that realizes this. Thanks for clearing things up for me like usual deeder.
    Journal

    Before you go to train everyday, think about the less fortunate and what they would give to just have the opportunity to be training like a madman.

    "The squat rack is my church, the dead lift platform my temple."

    Team Stocky - "It's not a hobby, it's a lifestyle."
    The Rawmighty Team Stocky.

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