The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #51
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    I singled 462, I never really get to go true max.

    I don't kow if Im correct, I probably way waaaay off the mark, i just had an idea and blurted it out and now imsitting back and letting people hash it out for me.



    Pretty much... I mean I have seen footage of Bulgarian supers and Reza squatting 950ish but seeing as it isnt 1000 then they cant be strong.
    This thread has turned in to another "who's stronger" thread. Here's a damn impressive feat of strength from my sport:

    Video


    He had to walk it out though... So he must be a pussy..

    Quote Originally Posted by Killa Kurt View Post
    That's what it seems like, I was just wondering if I was the only person that realizes this. Thanks for clearing things up for me like usual deeder.
    Yup.. And it's because of that view that powerlifting has very little chance of getting in to the olympics.
    Last edited by deeder; 02-23-2008 at 08:39 PM.
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    Did you watch the video?

    Have you seen the video of him front squatting over 600 lbs for an easy double?

    I repeat, let's see you come even close to the feat on video. If not, then you sure as heck should grant that man his due. How would you feel if I said your lifts are unimpressive (I do NOT feel that way)?

    That is a big raw lift any way you want to slice it. To call it anything else is folly.

    If you want to be a stubborn guy and not admit it that is just ****ing stupid.

    As you are a stubborn guy, at least online, I will not try to convince you further.
    You can call my lifts whatever you want. It makes no difference in my life. I never said it wasn't a good lift. If I did, I mis-typed. All I ever said is that I wasn't impressed.

  3. #53
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    You guys finally figured it out. If you only knew how stupid you sounded with the 3-5 layers blah, blah, blah. But, it makes for good reading for me.

    As for the Olympics, who gives a $hit? I lift for myself. If you're out there lifting for trophies or the Olympics as a PLer, you're in the wrong game.

    You raw dogs like to call out geared lifters. Raw lifting isn't as hard as using the gear. You have to be smarter, but it's definately easier. I do a ton of raw training. Since the gear is getting ridiculous, there are 2 options.

    1. complain about it, like a few of you like to do
    2. accept that it's here to stay and LEARN to use it.

    Training in gear is not as easy as putting on a suit and squatting. You're asking your body to handle more weight than it is capable of handling (supra-maximal loads). The strain on the CNS is ridiculous. Not to mention the joints that aren't protected by the gear. And, the skill (like throwing a football correctly or hitting a golf ball) practice it takes to learn where to put your body while using the gear. All you do when lifting raw is lift.

    I put a squat suit and a bottle of test on the floor under the monolift 1 day and loaded the bar to 500lbs. Oddly enough, the suit was unable to lift the weight. In fact, it wasn't even able to unrack the weight. Which really freaked me out, because I thought the suit did all the lifting for me. Imagine my ride home from the gym that day? Talk about worlds colliding. I had spent so much time thinking the suit was doing all of the work for me, and to find out I was wrong! After a long night of Jack and Cokes and a few percocets, I came to the conclusion thatGod himself, was lifting the weights for me. It wasn't the suit and it wasn't me. It was divine intervention. Praise Jesus!
    Last edited by RhodeHouse; 02-23-2008 at 09:04 PM.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deeder View Post
    Squeeze into 3-5 layers of polyester, 2.5m knee wraps, a belt, wrist wraps and then take at least 1000lbs 3+ inches above parallel without having to walk it out of a rack.
    Not that I don't share some of your views, but when did you become an IPF snob? Seriously...
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  5. #55
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    not to get off topic or anything but I love that vid of Kirk Karwoski. That guy was an absolute freak. Every time I watch that I want to head into the gym.

    ok, carry on

  6. #56
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    As for the Olympics, who gives a $hit? I lift for myself. If you're out there lifting for trophies or the Olympics as a PLer, you're in the wrong game.
    You may not care about representing your country at the oldest and most honored international competition on this planet but that is the ultimate goal for many (most?) athletes.

    Would you tell a swimmer, skier, skater (just some of the individual sports off the top of my head) that they are in the wrong game because they strive for medals at the most elite level of competition available to them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    Not that I don't share some of your views, but when did you become an IPF snob? Seriously...
    I don't even want to answer this... There'd just be too many angry responses.
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  7. #57
    THUNDER THIGHS! Fuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    You guys finally figured it out. If you only knew how stupid you sounded with the 3-5 layers blah, blah, blah. But, it makes for good reading for me.

    As for the Olympics, who gives a $hit? I lift for myself. If you're out there lifting for trophies or the Olympics as a PLer, you're in the wrong game.

    You raw dogs like to call out geared lifters. Raw lifting isn't as hard as using the gear. You have to be smarter, but it's definately easier. I do a ton of raw training. Since the gear is getting ridiculous, there are 2 options.

    1. complain about it, like a few of you like to do
    2. accept that it's here to stay and LEARN to use it.

    Training in gear is not as easy as putting on a suit and squatting. You're asking your body to handle more weight than it is capable of handling (supra-maximal loads). The strain on the CNS is ridiculous. Not to mention the joints that aren't protected by the gear. And, the skill (like throwing a football correctly or hitting a golf ball) practice it takes to learn where to put your body while using the gear. All you do when lifting raw is lift.

    I put a squat suit and a bottle of test on the floor under the monolift 1 day and loaded the bar to 500lbs. Oddly enough, the suit was unable to lift the weight. In fact, it wasn't even able to unrack the weight. Which really freaked me out, because I thought the suit did all the lifting for me. Imagine my ride home from the gym that day? Talk about worlds colliding. I had spent so much time thinking the suit was doing all of the work for me, and to find out I was wrong! After a long night of Jack and Cokes and a few percocets, I came to the conclusion thatGod himself, was lifting the weights for me. It wasn't the suit and it wasn't me. It was divine intervention. Praise Jesus!

    I SAID that ply lifting is harder, my point was for someone who doesnt put themselves under this kind of load would it not be better totake a leaf from an Oly lifter's book and use more frequncy.

    That was the whole poit ofthe damn thread instead me and others got sucked into the 'who is stronger'

    Back to the topic please.

    The question

    Would a raw powerlifter benefit more from an olympic style of frequency as the body can adapt ad condition to high loads as opposed to the westside method?
    Being a strong teenager means nothing.

    My wrists hurt, but some people don't have wrists to be sore. My knees have tendinitis, but some people don't have legs to get tendinitis in. I seem to be going backwards with training, yet some people can't even walk let alone lift 400 pounds on a daily basis.

    Dust out the vagina, and keep on lifting.

  8. #58
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    Back to the topic please.

    The question

    Would a raw powerlifter benefit more from an olympic style of frequency as the body can adapt ad condition to high loads as opposed to the westside method?
    I think either would work very well as long as you stay committed. There is science behind both. Just SFW!

  9. #59
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Deeder,
    If you think that equipment and monolifts are what's keeping/has kept PL out of the olympics, you have a lot of studying to do.

    This thread has become yet another worthless turd of misplaced angst.

    In one last attempt to stay on topic I'll repeat, OL and PL, at least at elite levels are apples and oranges. OLers squat, but squat training is GPP for the OLs. OLs are much more technical lifts - OLers do not train the OLs like PLers train the SQ/BP/DL. PLers do not train SQs in the same manner that OLers do because they are trying to improve their squat 1rm exclusively. For OLers, squats are a means to an end, for PLers squats are a means and the end.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  10. #60
    THUNDER THIGHS! Fuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vdizenzo View Post
    I think either would work very well as long as you stay committed. There is science behind both. Just SFW!
    Best damn post so far! Lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    Deeder,
    If you think that equipment and monolifts are what's keeping/has kept PL out of the olympics, you have a lot of studying to do.

    This thread has become yet another worthless turd of misplaced angst.

    In one last attempt to stay on topic I'll repeat, OL and PL, at least at elite levels are apples and oranges. OLers squat, but squat training is GPP for the OLs. OLs are much more technical lifts - OLers do not train the OLs like PLers train the SQ/BP/DL. PLers do not train SQs in the same manner that OLers do because they are trying to improve their squat 1rm exclusively. For OLers, squats are a means to an end, for PLers squats are a means and the end.
    Unfortuantely... is has, wich is a shame.

    I guess my premise is wrong when you put it that way, squats as a means to an end vs squats being the end.

    Topic was fun while it lasted!
    Being a strong teenager means nothing.

    My wrists hurt, but some people don't have wrists to be sore. My knees have tendinitis, but some people don't have legs to get tendinitis in. I seem to be going backwards with training, yet some people can't even walk let alone lift 400 pounds on a daily basis.

    Dust out the vagina, and keep on lifting.

  11. #61
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    Fuzzy I see your point. But I do agree that PLers are working with some ridiculous weight that can be very taxing.

    Now, has anyone ever tried what fuzzy is saying? Has a PLer ever adapted an Oly lifter's type of routine (with substituted lifts and accommodations of course).

  12. #62
    Who me? Chubrock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deeder View Post
    You may not care about representing your country at the oldest and most honored international competition on this planet but that is the ultimate goal for many (most?) athletes.

    .

    Not hardly. If you took a poll on here, I doubt you'd find even a fourth of the board had a goal of representing their country.
    Last edited by Chubrock; 02-23-2008 at 10:48 PM.

    Fuck, fight, or hold the light.

  13. #63
    Who me? Chubrock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFGUITAR View Post

    Now, has anyone ever tried what fuzzy is saying? Has a PLer ever adapted an Oly lifter's type of routine (with substituted lifts and accommodations of course).


    Rhodes referenced this earlier. There are too many competitive movements to try and train with the amount of volume Fuzzy referenced. If you tried to apply that amount of volume to your squat, bench and dead, the lifter would die.

    Fuck, fight, or hold the light.

  14. #64
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Fuzzy, although I disagree with your training theory, I will admit, assuming you're old like your side profile there says, you formulated your thoughts pretty well for a 15yr old. You obviously have someone in your background who's done their work teaching you about your lifting. Good luck with your lifting

  15. #65
    Gaglione Strength Chris Rodgers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    Deeder,
    If you think that equipment and monolifts are what's keeping/has kept PL out of the olympics, you have a lot of studying to do.

    This thread has become yet another worthless turd of misplaced angst.

    In one last attempt to stay on topic I'll repeat, OL and PL, at least at elite levels are apples and oranges. OLers squat, but squat training is GPP for the OLs. OLs are much more technical lifts - OLers do not train the OLs like PLers train the SQ/BP/DL. PLers do not train SQs in the same manner that OLers do because they are trying to improve their squat 1rm exclusively. For OLers, squats are a means to an end, for PLers squats are a means and the end.

    Good post.


    Deeder- I'm curious when you became such an IPF ass myself? I've seen it in most of your posts relating to powerlifting recently.
    Best Meet Lifts(Raw w/wraps):
    @165- 435 SQ 270 BE 560 DL.....1255 total
    @181- 535 SQ 300 BE 570 DL.....1400 total
    Best Meet Lifts(Multi-ply):
    @148- 575 SQ 315 BE 515 DL.....1400 total
    @165- 680 SQ 380 BE 540 DL.....1555 total
    @181- 700 SQ 375 BE 535 DL.....1605 total
    Best Gym Lifts(Raw w/wraps)
    545 SQ 305 BE 585 DL

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by deeder View Post
    You may not care about representing your country at the oldest and most honored international competition on this planet but that is the ultimate goal for many (most?) athletes.

    Would you tell a swimmer, skier, skater (just some of the individual sports off the top of my head) that they are in the wrong game because they strive for medals at the most elite level of competition available to them?



    I don't even want to answer this... There'd just be too many angry responses.
    You don't get it, dude. That's ok.

  17. #67
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    Back to the topic please.

    The question

    Would a raw powerlifter benefit more from an olympic style of frequency as the body can adapt ad condition to high loads as opposed to the westside method?[/QUOTE]

    It's already been answered little boy. No, it would not benefit a PLer to train with more frequency. Everyone has said it would be a really bad idea.

  18. #68
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubrock View Post
    Not hardly. If you took a poll on here, I doubt you'd find even a fourth of the board had a goal of representing their country.
    And I bet that fourth would be those who's main interest lies in a sport represented in the olympics.
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  19. #69
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    I singled 462, I never really get to go true max.

    I don't kow if Im correct, I probably way waaaay off the mark, i just had an idea and blurted it out and now imsitting back and letting people hash it out for me.



    Pretty much... I mean I have seen footage of Bulgarian supers and Reza squatting 950ish but seeing as it isnt 1000 then they cant be strong.

    Get me a link to these videos. I have heard of them doing such loads, but never seen it.


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  20. #70
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    You can call my lifts whatever you want. It makes no difference in my life. I never said it wasn't a good lift. If I did, I mis-typed. All I ever said is that I wasn't impressed.
    Lol, you are a hard man to impress...


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  21. #71
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vdizenzo View Post
    I think either would work very well as long as you stay committed. There is science behind both. Just SFW!
    Smart man!


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  22. #72
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    The comment about the gear and 3" above parallel with 1000+ lbs was stupid.

    ****, I respect anyone who can put 1000 lbs on their back and break their knees without being crushed!

    Mike Miller is a great example. He gets **** for having presumably squatted high when he set the record. Whatever! He got whites and squatting a ****load of weight!!! He gets my respect!

    **** the internet judges!

    Strength athletes need to learn to overcome jealously and respect each others lifts (this is a GENERAL statement, I know some do).


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  23. #73
    THUNDER THIGHS! Fuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubrock View Post
    Rhodes referenced this earlier. There are too many competitive movements to try and train with the amount of volume Fuzzy referenced. If you tried to apply that amount of volume to your squat, bench and dead, the lifter would die.
    So maybe a cyclcical (is that even a word) approach.

    god I need to take the 3 hour trip to mannum, no shortage of big country boys who would be willing to try something like this.

    Cycling between high frequnecy squat, deadlift and bench routines with an all round peaking cycle for meets.

    I would love to try this for the **** of it!

    Sometimes I wish I could g back to powerlifting nd trainin by own just try all these concept I think of or run across.
    Last edited by Fuzzy; 02-23-2008 at 11:57 PM.
    Being a strong teenager means nothing.

    My wrists hurt, but some people don't have wrists to be sore. My knees have tendinitis, but some people don't have legs to get tendinitis in. I seem to be going backwards with training, yet some people can't even walk let alone lift 400 pounds on a daily basis.

    Dust out the vagina, and keep on lifting.

  24. #74
    THUNDER THIGHS! Fuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    Get me a link to these videos. I have heard of them doing such loads, but never seen it.
    All on tapes my coach inherited from his coach, Sevi Marinov who was a 2 time gold medallist in the 52's.

    Sevi asked us not to distribte them.
    Being a strong teenager means nothing.

    My wrists hurt, but some people don't have wrists to be sore. My knees have tendinitis, but some people don't have legs to get tendinitis in. I seem to be going backwards with training, yet some people can't even walk let alone lift 400 pounds on a daily basis.

    Dust out the vagina, and keep on lifting.

  25. #75
    THUNDER THIGHS! Fuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    It's already been answered little boy. No, it would not benefit a PLer to train with more frequency. Everyone has said it would be a really bad idea.
    Little boy? Im eating my way to become a 300 pound super!

    (I think anyway, might stay heavyweight)
    Being a strong teenager means nothing.

    My wrists hurt, but some people don't have wrists to be sore. My knees have tendinitis, but some people don't have legs to get tendinitis in. I seem to be going backwards with training, yet some people can't even walk let alone lift 400 pounds on a daily basis.

    Dust out the vagina, and keep on lifting.

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