The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Senior Member berfles's Avatar
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    Cutting question

    I never thought I'd be making a thread like this, but since I'm almost nearing my goal weight I figured I would ask now. My goal is to get to 225lbs and then cut down to 210-215lbs. Is a 10-15lb cut enough? I'm not sure how much 15lbs of fat really is, if it'll make a big difference or not so much. I don't want to cut any lower than that because I'll be too small again (already not big) and that would mean all my hard work was semi-wasted.

    So, should I try to bulk up a little more or should this be alright if you had to guess?
    22 - 5'10@236lbs!
    Bench - 325 (old)
    Squat - 455x2 (old)
    Deadlift - 500(old)

    Total: 1280lbs 100% raw




    The key to my exercise program is this one simple truth: I hate my body.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member BilltheButcher's Avatar
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    How long will it take you to gain 10lbs? Are you trying to cut for summertime? Because time will be your enemy if that is why you are doing a cut.
    Never shall innocent blood be shed, yet the blood of the wicked shall flow like a river. The Three shall spread their blackened wings and be the vengeful striking hammer of God.

  4. #3
    Chubbilicious. VikingWarlord's Avatar
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    The answer to whether it'll be "enough" depends on your composition when you start the cut and where you want to be at the end.
    If one person can do something, anyone can learn to do it.
    Do what you've always done and get what you've always gotten.
    There is no failure, only feedback.

    "Journey of 1000 miles starts with a single step".--Lao Tzu

    Pro-Choice...ON EVERYTHING.

  5. #4
    Senior Member berfles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BilltheButcher View Post
    How long will it take you to gain 10lbs? Are you trying to cut for summertime? Because time will be your enemy if that is why you are doing a cut.
    Well thanks to being evacuated a couple weeks ago and losing progress for a week, probably awhile yet. I'm hoping I can get there by the end of the month but who knows. I was on track for cutting around Summer time but now I'm not sure, though cutting will be simple for me. All I plan to do is drop one of my shakes and keep lifting hard and maybe throw some cardio in since I'm so out of shape.

    The answer to whether it'll be "enough" depends on your composition when you start the cut and where you want to be at the end.
    True, I was just wondering if a 15lb cut was generally enough to see a decent change. I have no concept of what a lot of fat is weight wise, but if it's like weight in general, it probably won't be enough. I'll probably end up cutting to 210 and bulking again right away.

    Right now I can still see my abs, but there is obviously fat there. Enough to grab with my hands. Love handles too, but I can't tell if the rest is because I'm water logged because of creatine or not.
    Last edited by berfles; 04-09-2009 at 02:11 PM.
    22 - 5'10@236lbs!
    Bench - 325 (old)
    Squat - 455x2 (old)
    Deadlift - 500(old)

    Total: 1280lbs 100% raw




    The key to my exercise program is this one simple truth: I hate my body.

  6. #5
    Senior Member BilltheButcher's Avatar
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    If it will only take 30 days to put on 10lbs, then I would reach that goal - because I think you will always say, what if I went to 225. Are you doing a 12 week cut - what is your timeframe going to be for your cut - figure that will put you middle of July - depending where you live - right around taking the shirt off season.
    Never shall innocent blood be shed, yet the blood of the wicked shall flow like a river. The Three shall spread their blackened wings and be the vengeful striking hammer of God.

  7. #6
    Senior Member berfles's Avatar
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    I definitely plan on getting to 225lbs before I even consider actually cutting. I have no idea how long I plan on cutting, I've never had to do it before so this will be a first. I'll be able to lose weight eating 5500 calories a week, so that should say how fast my metabolism is and how easy weight will come off. I just have to make sure I don't cut too many calories and keep up the heavy lifting so I don't lose too much muscle along with the fat. I'm not too worried about that. I can't wait to cut.

    I was hoping I'd get to 225 by the end of April and shed some good weight by June. Not necessarily in a "cut" state, but defined enough to not mind taking my shirt off. By July I'd imagine I'll be pretty close to my ideal BF% (I'm not THAT high right now, just high enough to bother me) but all this depends on when I reach 225.
    22 - 5'10@236lbs!
    Bench - 325 (old)
    Squat - 455x2 (old)
    Deadlift - 500(old)

    Total: 1280lbs 100% raw




    The key to my exercise program is this one simple truth: I hate my body.

  8. #7
    Senior Member berfles's Avatar
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    Ok so it's probably not going to happen by the end of the month. I didn't gain a ****ing ounce this week even though I ate 6000 calories 4/5 days.

    6098
    6011
    5687
    6050
    6030

    This is bull****. I guess now I have to make sure I get at least 6200. I'm predicting at least throwing up once during this week, which won't help the matter at all. I'm going to start drinking concrete.

    At least I'm stronger than I've ever been, but it's such a kick in the nuts eating your ass off all week and not gaining ****. Lately I've been so run down from eating that even 6000 is more of a chore than usual, I used to be able to hit 6500 a couple times during the week. I can't take a break though, I'd lose too much in the process.
    Last edited by berfles; 04-11-2009 at 09:38 AM.
    22 - 5'10@236lbs!
    Bench - 325 (old)
    Squat - 455x2 (old)
    Deadlift - 500(old)

    Total: 1280lbs 100% raw




    The key to my exercise program is this one simple truth: I hate my body.

  9. #8
    Chubbilicious. VikingWarlord's Avatar
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    Give it time. You will get there. Frustration is the last thing you need. It raises stress levels and won't help you in any way. Just chill and go with it. Your body is telling you what to do, you just have to listen. Instead of it being something you have to do, look at it as something you get to do. Anything you do should be enjoyable. If it's not, why keep doing it?

    Just breathe and chill.
    If one person can do something, anyone can learn to do it.
    Do what you've always done and get what you've always gotten.
    There is no failure, only feedback.

    "Journey of 1000 miles starts with a single step".--Lao Tzu

    Pro-Choice...ON EVERYTHING.

  10. #9
    Senior Member berfles's Avatar
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    Anything you do should be enjoyable. If it's not, why keep doing it?
    Because I want it. If this had to be enjoyable for me to keep doing it I would still be at 150lbs as I first was upon signing up here. Eating will never be enjoyable for me, I've had to eat this much for well over a year and it hasn't gotten any easier, it's still a challenge every day and I go right to the end of the line every night before I actually get to 6000. There are very few foods anymore thatI actually enjoy eating.

    I'll try to cool off, I should be used to it now because I've had slow progress gaining weight ever since I hit 200lbs. I need to keep focusing on the strength side of things, which is where things are going fine, so I don't get too down about a damn number.
    Last edited by berfles; 04-11-2009 at 09:51 AM.
    22 - 5'10@236lbs!
    Bench - 325 (old)
    Squat - 455x2 (old)
    Deadlift - 500(old)

    Total: 1280lbs 100% raw




    The key to my exercise program is this one simple truth: I hate my body.

  11. #10
    Chubbilicious. VikingWarlord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berfles View Post
    I need to keep focusing on the strength side of things, which is where things are going fine, so I don't get too down about a damn number.
    This. Read it again. Write it down and tape it to your mirror.
    If one person can do something, anyone can learn to do it.
    Do what you've always done and get what you've always gotten.
    There is no failure, only feedback.

    "Journey of 1000 miles starts with a single step".--Lao Tzu

    Pro-Choice...ON EVERYTHING.

  12. #11
    Getting There... Irish Pilot's Avatar
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    All depends on your goals bud. Are you wanting a look? Are you a numbers guy? I have had to continuously update my goals on my cut. What it basically came down to was cutting till I was happy in the mirror...numbers on the scale meant nothing as I would achieve a short term goal weight and realize I still "wasnt there"...but I lift out of enjoyment and aesthetics.

    Dont be afraid to cut because of your well earned gains. You can cut weight AND keep most if not close to all of your strength. In my experience much of the strength lost during a cut occurs because of the caloric deficit...not because of catabolism of muscle. Why do I think this? Considering how inexperienced I am in the grand scheme, bodpod evals have shown that in the near 40lbs Ive lost less than 3lbs of lean mass...and my diet-training were not perfect the entire time. There was a LOT of learning done in that period. I also found that every time I went back to a caloric surplus, my lifting numbers quickly (a few weeks) returned to where they were before starting the cut. I hadnt lost the muscle, I had just lost the energy and strength after eating at a deficit.

    Like I said, all depends on your personal goals. From the time and effort you have placed into your bulk, you have probably learned a lot about YOUR body and the dynamics of your diet and lifts. Done properly, a cut will reveal that mass you have worked so hard to earn...and in turn likely inspire you to move forward at an even more motivated pace.

    Best of luck and again kudos on your gains!
    Last edited by Irish Pilot; 04-11-2009 at 11:37 AM.
    - Slave & Master At The Same Damn Time -
    Hoping To Compete Natty Early 2011

  13. #12
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    You have been making great progress and just need to keep it consistent.

  14. #13
    Please just take one! MadScientist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berfles View Post
    Eating will never be enjoyable for me, I've had to eat this much for well over a year and it hasn't gotten any easier, it's still a challenge every day and I go right to the end of the line every night before I actually get to 6000. There are very few foods anymore thatI actually enjoy eating.
    Ive been bulking for almost 2 months and have added almost 30 lbs lean, very little fat.

    Eating is disgusting. I feel full all day which makes me feel sick. I keep shoveling food. I hate food. Some of it tastes good going in, but once it hits the stomach it just makes me feel lethargic.

    I hate food.
    I am primarily a bodybuilder, not a PL. Any advice given will be from the primary POV of a bodybuilder, and not a PL.
    Less than a half decade lifting, read this - http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...ing_Primer.htm

  15. #14
    Senior Member berfles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Pilot View Post
    All depends on your goals bud. Are you wanting a look? Are you a numbers guy? I have had to continuously update my goals on my cut. What it basically came down to was cutting till I was happy in the mirror...numbers on the scale meant nothing as I would achieve a short term goal weight and realize I still "wasnt there"...but I lift out of enjoyment and aesthetics.

    Dont be afraid to cut because of your well earned gains. You can cut weight AND keep most if not close to all of your strength. In my experience much of the strength lost during a cut occurs because of the caloric deficit...not because of catabolism of muscle. Why do I think this? Considering how inexperienced I am in the grand scheme, bodpod evals have shown that in the near 40lbs Ive lost less than 3lbs of lean mass...and my diet-training were not perfect the entire time. There was a LOT of learning done in that period. I also found that every time I went back to a caloric surplus, my lifting numbers quickly (a few weeks) returned to where they were before starting the cut. I hadnt lost the muscle, I had just lost the energy and strength after eating at a deficit.

    Like I said, all depends on your personal goals. From the time and effort you have placed into your bulk, you have probably learned a lot about YOUR body and the dynamics of your diet and lifts. Done properly, a cut will reveal that mass you have worked so hard to earn...and in turn likely inspire you to move forward at an even more motivated pace.

    Best of luck and again kudos on your gains!
    Thanks man, that was a good post. I am mainly a numbers guy now, but I still want to look decent without a shirt too. At the same time I'm just worried about losing too much size since I still see myself as being small. My arms finally got to 17", if I cut down they'll probably be like 15.5" again. I'm not too worried about losing strength, all I have to do is cut one shake out and keep lifting heavy and I should be fine. I'll probably post a lot of pictures during the cut to make sure things are going fine and that I'm not losing too fast. That is, if I ever get there. Bumping my calories up to at least 6200 a day this week to see what that does.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadScientist View Post
    Ive been bulking for almost 2 months and have added almost 30 lbs lean, very little fat.

    Eating is disgusting. I feel full all day which makes me feel sick. I keep shoveling food. I hate food. Some of it tastes good going in, but once it hits the stomach it just makes me feel lethargic.

    I hate food.
    You and me both.
    Last edited by berfles; 04-14-2009 at 11:03 AM.
    22 - 5'10@236lbs!
    Bench - 325 (old)
    Squat - 455x2 (old)
    Deadlift - 500(old)

    Total: 1280lbs 100% raw




    The key to my exercise program is this one simple truth: I hate my body.

  16. #15
    My own personal trainer dumbbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berfles View Post
    I'm predicting at least throwing up once during this week...
    Cool. I'll be watching this for updates.

    You can do it!!!

    Awesome level of dedication, man.
    Jason

    It is currently a fad, at this writing, for boys to think they need a "six pack", although most of them don't have an ice chest to put it in.
    -Mark Rippetoe

  17. #16
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    I got up to 228lbs (probably only 219 before cut), thinking this would be a good number, and thinking ahead, I started mid-February with my cutting process. Much like you stated, I had no idea how much 10, 15, 20lbs of fat was on a guy who is 6'3-6'4. Well, I started my cut, first three weeks with just a balanced, reduced calorie diet. This was boring and really challenging all week. Fourth week I switched to CKD, the first week was tough, but once adjusted it was great. My energy levels are great throughout the week, I eat whatever I want from Friday afternoon to Saturday night....whatever and however much I'd like. I am consistently losing weight every week, and the definition is coming along great.
    Back to not knowing how much 15lbs of fat looks like....I'm now 196lbs, and I'm not done yet. I was one of those who underestimated thier bodyfat, but I'm learning as I go. My lifts have gone down a bit (e.g. 270 bench to 245), but I do not have a problem with that considering I know i'm running a caloric deficit daily (except carb up days) Keep us posted as you go, good luck!

  18. #17
    Back in business WBBIRL's Avatar
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    Do you know how much I hate your face? I put weight on eating anything over 3000 calories.....

    To cut I have to stay around 2000, you jerk.

    Lol

    anyhow whether your like me and have the challenge I face or like you and face the challenge you do I guess it's just universally true that nothing worth doing is going to be easy.

  19. #18
    Senior Member berfles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WBBIRL View Post
    Do you know how much I hate your face? I put weight on eating anything over 3000 calories.....

    To cut I have to stay around 2000, you jerk.

    Lol

    anyhow whether your like me and have the challenge I face or like you and face the challenge you do I guess it's just universally true that nothing worth doing is going to be easy.
    Hate yours right back buddy I'd pay good money to have anyone else's metabolism.

    It's not looking good this week either despite eating 6200-6400 calories. I don't know how much higher I can go, I am certain I'm at about the physical limit for my body. I've almost thrown up more times this week than I can ever remember.
    22 - 5'10@236lbs!
    Bench - 325 (old)
    Squat - 455x2 (old)
    Deadlift - 500(old)

    Total: 1280lbs 100% raw




    The key to my exercise program is this one simple truth: I hate my body.

  20. #19
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    Wow berfles! If I ate that much I would be fatter than Fat Albert. I tend to get fluffy once I surpass 3000 cals a day.

  21. #20
    Senior Member berfles's Avatar
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    Weeeee, weighed in at 215lbs today. Last week I week I was 212.6 or something. So why is it that I eat 200-300 calories more and gain almost 3lbs one week, the next week I gain nothing, other weeks I lose weight? My body has always been like that. If I lost weight last week eating 6000, you'd think eating 6200-6300 would only gain me a tiny bit of weight.
    22 - 5'10@236lbs!
    Bench - 325 (old)
    Squat - 455x2 (old)
    Deadlift - 500(old)

    Total: 1280lbs 100% raw




    The key to my exercise program is this one simple truth: I hate my body.

  22. #21
    Chubbilicious. VikingWarlord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berfles View Post
    Weeeee, weighed in at 215lbs today. Last week I week I was 212.6 or something. So why is it that I eat 200-300 calories more and gain almost 3lbs one week, the next week I gain nothing, other weeks I lose weight? My body has always been like that. If I lost weight last week eating 6000, you'd think eating 6200-6300 would only gain me a tiny bit of weight.
    Could be any number of things. Don't sweat it. The calculations are all going to work out on average.
    If one person can do something, anyone can learn to do it.
    Do what you've always done and get what you've always gotten.
    There is no failure, only feedback.

    "Journey of 1000 miles starts with a single step".--Lao Tzu

    Pro-Choice...ON EVERYTHING.

  23. #22
    Wannabebig Member ChrisNeander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadScientist View Post
    Ive been bulking for almost 2 months and have added almost 30 lbs lean, very little fat.

    Wait, at nearly 400lbs you can bulk and
    gain 15lbs a month with very little fat
    gain? Is this because you have a ridiculously
    massive frame to fill?

  24. #23
    Senior Member berfles's Avatar
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    I just ate 7009 calories today
    22 - 5'10@236lbs!
    Bench - 325 (old)
    Squat - 455x2 (old)
    Deadlift - 500(old)

    Total: 1280lbs 100% raw




    The key to my exercise program is this one simple truth: I hate my body.

  25. #24
    My own personal trainer dumbbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berfles View Post
    I just ate 7009 calories today
    That's friggin' awesome. Yum, yum, yum.
    Jason

    It is currently a fad, at this writing, for boys to think they need a "six pack", although most of them don't have an ice chest to put it in.
    -Mark Rippetoe

  26. #25
    Senior Member berfles's Avatar
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    It's not hard with some ****ty food like chocolate chip muffins that are 600 calories

    I may keep going to see how high I get, depends how I feel after my last disgusting shake.

    EDIT: Actually 7230 calories, I forgot to count something
    Last edited by berfles; 04-18-2009 at 10:38 PM.
    22 - 5'10@236lbs!
    Bench - 325 (old)
    Squat - 455x2 (old)
    Deadlift - 500(old)

    Total: 1280lbs 100% raw




    The key to my exercise program is this one simple truth: I hate my body.

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