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Thread: Advanced Bodybuilders.. critique my DC training please

  1. #26
    Bodybuilding Mythbuster
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    Question for Joey54.


    I understand the thinking behind the high reps...but did you actually find that you were able to build appreciable strength on this type of routine?


    Or were you only concerned with size during this "blast"?

    The reason that I ask about strength is that the OP wants to compete in a deadlift meet and keep his deadlift strength.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 03-20-2008 at 09:33 PM.

  2. #27
    Big Swinging Dick dxiw's Avatar
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    ZenMonkey - Have you actually done any reading / research into the DC training and diet philosophy? People have made very incredible gains on it.

    Joey - how about your bodyfat levels? Did they increase much?

    Songsangnim - One core concept of DC is that you have to increase the weight each workout or get two more reps. If you can't, then you move to another exercise. So in a way you are building a 15-rep max. I assume you would lose some 1RP max power, which is why I am probably going to swap out back thickness or chest for some heavy PL work.

    225lb @ 17% bodyfat, currently cutting
    Current lifts while cutting (all raw): bench 275x4, squat 365x8
    Estimated current maxes: 300 bench / 450 dead / 450 squat
    Competition / Gym PRs (from March 08)
    Bench: 325 raw / 385 loose shirt
    Deadlift: 450 raw ADFPF 04/26/08
    Squat: 405 raw

  3. #28
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    DXIW you are way more into it then I am when it comes down to things like bodyfat and measuring things out. I take a more simplistic, but obviously flawed technique. I measure bodyfat by how my pants fit around the waist. When I started training in a DC fashion I was around 215 lbs 2 years ago(I really have flucuated in weight throughout the years depending on what I felt like doing). Now I am at over 240 lbs and my pants still fit about the same around the waist, so I am pretty content with that. I notice some bodyfat increase by looking in the mirror, but nothing I am unhappy with. going up and down in bodyfat is a matter of diet as you know. At one point I was over 240 last year, but felt I was starting to get too fat, so I brought calories gradually down, went back to like 228 and built back up to around 240 lbs. Like I said my approach is really simple. "Me lift heavy, me eat big, me get big. Me lift heavy, me eat less, me maintain strength and drop bodyfat." haha. I don't see the point in ever getting much above 260 quality pounds if I keep trying to gain weight and that will take some time.

    Songsangnim I feel I have built considerable size and strength training in a DC style fashion the past two years. I gotta be honest, the claims of gaining 50 pounds or becoming a 4.0 lbs per square inch bodybuilder is not what attracted me to DC. I like the intense nature of the program. It is extremely goal oriented. One has to beat their workout each time. I like training to failure. It is like each time going to the gym is a competition and I am a competitive person. I played football through college, so this is my sport now. I don't ever plan to compete in bodybuilding in the future as I am tall and have wide hips(no, nos when it comes to being successful unless you are Gunter). I think one could do a deadlift meet when training DC, but if I were to do strictly powerlifitng I wouldn't follow DC. I would do something like Westside which is specific to increase the big three. I even suggested DXIW maybe wait until after the meet to try DC.

    Songsangnim, I have been a member of this site for as long as you, but was not around for some time. I did search back on the old post about DC where Dante actually came over and you two debated your points about training. I think you made some pretty valid points in your argument and was wondering, have your opinions about DC changed over the years? I have actually wondered if one could incorporate DC principles and other training principles into a routine like DXIW is thinking of doing, but I believe one can get caught up in trying to do too much or too many different things. For an extremely short period I was doing a few extra things while training in a DC fashion( mainly speed work at the end of the opposite workout, so if I did 1A I would do like 6 sets of speed squats), but felt it really wasn't beneficial at all. IMO it is best to focus on one specific way of training and be consistent.


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  4. #29
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dxiw View Post
    Workout 1
    POWERLIFTING: A. heavy deadlift work up to 1/3 rep max (2-3 sets) / B. nothing
    BACK THICKNESS: Good Mornings 12-15 reps SS
    BACK WIDTH: pulldowns 15-20 RP (20 second static at end, then stretches for back)
    QUADS: leg press 20-30 reps RP
    CALVES: calve raise 20-30 reps SS but with a 20 second negative phase
    HAMSTRINGS: leg curl 20-30 reps RP (stretches for legs)

    Workout 2
    POWERLIFTING: A. nothing / B. heavy bench work up to 1-3 rep max (3 sets)
    CHEST: DB flies 12-20 reps RP and a 30 second static rep at the end (then stretches)
    SHOULDERS: lateral raise 15-20 Drop Set and 30 second static (then stretches)
    TRICEPS: skull crushers 12-20 reps RP (then stretches)
    BICEPS: preacher bench curl 12-20 reps RP and 30 second static
    FOREARMS: reverse curl 12-20 reps SS, forearm curl 15 reps RP
    GRIP: CoC/heavygrips for 12-20 reps SS (then stretches for biceps)
    .

    I am sure people have made decent gains but I think we can easliy make this more efficient.

    I mean, seriously, flies, lateral raises, forearm curls, and "Grip"? Why do these when they can be replace with much better things. You have horizontal pushing but no pulling, no squatting movement, no vertical pressing, and leg curls.
    Sarvamangalam!

  5. #30
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joey54 View Post
    1A
    Incline DB press
    Standing Side DB laterals
    Close Grip Bench Press
    Wide Grip Pulldowns
    Bent Over Barbell Rows

    1B
    BB Drag Curls
    Bilateral DB Hammer Curls
    Donkey Calf Raises
    Lying Hamstring Curl
    Close stance Hack

    2A
    Flat BB bench press
    Upright Rows
    Hammer Strength Pulldown
    Rack Pulls

    2B
    Spider Curls
    Behind the back forearm curls with a BB
    Standing Calf Raises
    Good Mornings
    Leg Press

    3A
    Hammer Strength Chest Press
    Hammer Strength Shoulder Press
    Skull Crushers on an incline bench
    Rack Chins
    Seated Row, close grip

    3B
    Bilateral Incline DB curls
    Reverse Grip Curls
    Calf Press on leg press machine
    Stiff Leg Deadlift
    Barbell Hack Squat
    Again, I am not saying people do not make gains on this, just simply there are much more efficient ways to put a routine together. Honestly these look like they were pulled out of a bodybuilding mag.
    There are 5 different types of bicep curls, shall I go on?
    Last edited by ZenMonkey; 03-21-2008 at 08:21 AM.
    Sarvamangalam!

  6. #31
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    Actually don't go on. You have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to DC training and there is no reason why you are even a part of this discussion.


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  7. #32
    Senior Member bill's Avatar
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    Just google Justin Harris and you can see videos of hardcore DC training.
    Remember, to get big, you have to get strong. The two are interconnected. Lift heavy, work hard, and size will come. Like night follows day. It works. Arnold
    Do work son. Big Black (Rob and Big)

  8. #33
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    Bill, good call. or Jason Wojo.


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  9. #34
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    Well I do know that I also see accessory work taking priority before compound work. I don't doubt that it is "hardcore" it just seems that it has poor movement selection and order.
    Last edited by ZenMonkey; 03-21-2008 at 09:20 AM.
    Sarvamangalam!

  10. #35
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    and your opinion is fine. you don't have to train this way. move on.


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  11. #36
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    ^^ no response to what i pointed out? no need for the hostility.
    Sarvamangalam!

  12. #37
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    Nope, no response. I don't feel a need to defend or explain my training to others. If you want to find out what DC is all about, research it.


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  13. #38
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    and Zen Monkey I do apologize for the hostility. I have been quite annoyed by your participation in this thread, but DO COMPLETELY understand your reservations about the program. Check this out and it should answer your questions. I just don't feel qualified to explain a training program I did not develop.

    http://www.intensemuscle.com/19724-u...ons-later.html
    Last edited by joey54; 03-21-2008 at 11:19 AM.


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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joey View Post

    ...Songsangnim, I have been a member of this site for as long as you, but was not around for some time. I did search back on the old post about DC where Dante actually came over and you two debated your points about training. I think you made some pretty valid points in your argument and was wondering, have your opinions about DC changed over the years? I have actually wondered if one could incorporate DC principles and other training principles into a routine like DIXIE is thinking of doing, but I believe one can get caught up in trying to do too much or too many different things. For an extremely short period I was doing a few extra things while training in a DC fashion( mainly speed work at the end of the opposite workout, so if I did 1A I would do like 6 sets of speed squats), but felt it really wasn't beneficial at all. IMO it is best to focus on one specific way of training and be consistent.

    (I didn't want to quote the whole post so just the part where you asked the question)

    On going back and looking at the thread in question (now that tempers have cooled ), I think a case could be made that perhaps I was a bit too harsh regarding my views on DC. Depending on one's goals it could indeed be a solid way to train. However I was coming at it more from the point of view that I did not think it optimal for a beginner to use. I guess I should have been more clear about that.
    As I have stated before I feel strongly that a beginner (and many intermediates as well) should use a very basic routine focusing on squats, deads, pressing and pulling. Once the beginner is more knowledgeable and able to progress on his own, he or she can begin experimenting on his or her own and trying different routines whether it's WBB,BGB, 5x5 or DC.

    I completely agree with you that it is best to focus on one way of training and be consistent (after sufficient experimentation though)

  15. #40
    Determined View 1's Avatar
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    Video


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    Success is achieved by doing a little more than you thought you could, and a lot more than anyone else.

  16. #41
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    Songsangnim, I agree 100% with what you said. View 1 thanks for posting those vids.


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