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Thread: Obama's Speech. Thoughts?

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    Senior Member BilltheButcher's Avatar
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    Obama's Speech. Thoughts?

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n3947908.shtml

    So what do you guys think? Do you think a guy who's Pastor has made some blatant racist statements should be elected president? Does it not matter to you? Is this just common preaching in a black church or a guy on a racial rant?

    Curious to what you guys think about Pastor Wright controversy and Obama's speech.
    Never shall innocent blood be shed, yet the blood of the wicked shall flow like a river. The Three shall spread their blackened wings and be the vengeful striking hammer of God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BilltheButcher View Post
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n3947908.shtml

    So what do you guys think? Do you think a guy who's Pastor has made some blatant racist statements should be elected president? Does it not matter to you? Is this just common preaching in a black church or a guy on a racial rant?

    Curious to what you guys think about Pastor Wright controversy and Obama's speech.
    I don't think it's such a big deal that his pastor said racist statements. You don't have to agree with your pastor 100% of the time. He already stated he does not agree with his pastor so good enough for me.

  3. #3
    Who is John Galt? CrazyK's Avatar
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    I really care more about what he will do for the country.
    "You shall invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best who are the guided ones."- Quran 16:25

    "A life unexamined is not worth living"- Socrates

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    Tap, Rack, Bacon ncsuLuke's Avatar
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    i really care about how much he will increase taxes to fund all his programs

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    Look ma, I deadlifted. el_Mariachi's Avatar
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    After reading the speech, I have three conclusions.

    1) He has a good speech writer.

    2) I always knew it wasn't blacks or whites or anyone else's fault: it's the greedy corporations, man.

    3) Just me, but if I went to church and my pastor had even an occasional anti-black, anti-white, or anti-any-color rant, I wouldn't go back there and I wouldn't apologize for him, even if I had a speech writer who could render my apologetics incredibly eloquent.

    All in all typical speech though -- blame faceless corporations for race-related problems and probably everything else, lament school conditions, and pretend like there are millions of people dying in the streets with no option for medical treatment. Full of shockers all around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by el_Mariachi View Post
    After reading the speech, I have three conclusions.

    3) Just me, but if I went to church and my pastor had even an occasional anti-black, anti-white, or anti-any-color rant, I wouldn't go back there and I wouldn't apologize for him, even if I had a speech writer who could render my apologetics incredibly eloquent.

    Would you leave your church if they said anti-catholic, gay remarks?
    This preacher said typical old school remarks about white people based on his experiences.

  7. #7
    mind/body zen's Avatar
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    political damage control *shrug*

    What his pastor says may or may not reflect him (although I find it hard to believe that he would keep going back there for years and years if he so whole-heartedly objected to those sentiments).... what matters is how it states he will govern as executive in chief of the United States.
    'In order to alter the inertial mass of weights, you must become one with them, like a machine, the totality of your motion is as one'

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    Wannabe Rick James Genacide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackboard View Post
    This preacher said typical old school remarks about white people based on his experiences.
    And is that ok with you?
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Genacide View Post
    And is that ok with you?
    No, but when a black preacher is 60+ of age, I'm pretty sure he experienced
    tons of racism growing up.

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    Tap, Rack, Bacon ncsuLuke's Avatar
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    i dont think that it should be a big deal that his pastor said it but more a big deal that his pastor was on his election committee and said it. i dont care if it is his butcher that said the crap as long as his butcher isnt on his election committee

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    Road To Greatness.. RuLess's Avatar
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    im concerned about what hes gonna do for this country. period we'll be watching history tonight.. that mans gonna be the next president

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    Wannabe Rick James Genacide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuLess View Post
    im concerned about what hes gonna do for this country. period we'll be watching history tonight.. that mans gonna be the next president
    Capitalization.... and I doubt it, but time will tell.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Road To Greatness.. RuLess's Avatar
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    i guess we'll see

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    Look ma, I deadlifted. el_Mariachi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackboard View Post
    Would you leave your church if they said anti-catholic, gay remarks?
    This preacher said typical old school remarks about white people based on his experiences.
    In full disclosure I don't go to church, but if I did then, yes, I would leave based upon vitriolic anti-gay or anti-catholic rhetoric. And I'm not even exquisitely aware like a presidential candidate that my every move will be scrutinized.

    Either way, someone could have told me John McCain gave that speech and I wouldn't really be surprised. Extra bland, make canned points, accept no blame or responsibility for anything, and conclude with trite and probably made-up anecdote.

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    mind/body zen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by el_Mariachi View Post
    Either way, someone could have told me John McCain gave that speech and I wouldn't really be surprised. Extra bland, make canned points, accept no blame or responsibility for anything, and conclude with trite and probably made-up anecdote.
    So?
    Clinton. Need I say more?
    It's not what you say, it's how you say it.
    Obama is gonna make McCain look like crapola.
    Last edited by zen; 03-18-2008 at 03:56 PM.
    'In order to alter the inertial mass of weights, you must become one with them, like a machine, the totality of your motion is as one'

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    Look ma, I deadlifted. el_Mariachi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zen View Post
    So?
    Clinton. Need I say more?
    It's not what you say, it's how you say it.
    Obama is gonna make McCain look like crapola.
    It's a very unappealing herd of candidates, at this point I'm thinking I'll be a conscientious objector. And yeah, McCain is going to get flayed alive no matter what, I almost feel sorry for him.

    And Shrillary? Gag. The idea of her up there shrieking away as the President of the United States is so hideous...If I was a dem I'd practically have voted for B. Hussein Obama in the primaries. I'm going to go cry now.

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    Wannabebig New Member
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    While I'm against most of what Obama believes at least with him you know where he stands on most issues .

    With Billary , you dont know one day to the next what you get except tax increases . They are coming for sure .

    Obama will raise taxes for sure too , but Billary is horrible .

    Obamas views against tax cuts , re-pealing the death tax , private soc security accounts , drilling in ANWAR , death penalty , against citizens defending themselves , school vouchers and allowing people to sue gun manufacturers are enough to make me cringe . Hillary is worse though .

    McCain ? Hahahaha what a dope .

    Stock up your guns and ammo boys , it's coming and the idiots are to blame that voted for these dopes .
    Give me your broken , give me your beaten ... I will build them up , I will lead them ... to the threshhold . Make you stronger , make you believe .

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    I've known my friend now for 18 years of my life, which is all of mine, and all but a few months of hers. She has said things which I don't agree with, i've said things she doesn't agree with. We still get along.

    As far as i'm concerned what Obamas pastor says is no of relavance to me. Sure he said something racist, but when hasn't someone? If you really truly to go base your objection on this matter you sir do not desire the right to vote.

    Now I can understand you when you object to his views on iraq, taxes, social health care system, etc that is all understandable at least your disagreeing about something which is actually a part of the candate.

    This is recieveing far to much news coverage in my eys. Its a racist statement sure, but its not made by Obama himself.
    "It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
    "It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
    "It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
    "It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag."

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    Banned KingJustin's Avatar
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    First, I thought the speech was absolutely fantastic.


    The deal with the pastor...
    I think that this comes down to how often this guy actually spewed racism. I completely believe that the vast majority of black churches probably have pastors that give MLK's message frequently, and probably a fair number of them go on to blame white people. But if this is the central theme at his church, then it's hard to believe that he doesn't harbor some of the same views.


    The way that he explains the racial problems I thought was very good, and I appreciated the fact that he realizes there are some injustices for white people as well. I liked the way that he touched on the fact that blacks need to pull themselves out and not ask for handouts as well.

    Still, I think he overplayed how difficult it is to move up in America, or how hard it is for a race/ethnicity to move up. Jews, Irishmen, and Asians have all moved up much faster than blacks. Even Hispanics are moving up quicker than black people are now. This tells me that there are some serious cultural issues inside the black community -- NOT TO SAY that there weren't injustices, and that there's not a little racism in America today, and that it is a little harder for a poor black person to succeed than a rich white person.



    The part of his speech (and his campaign in general) that I can't stand, however, is the hypocrisy in his "unity" argument. He talks about how we need to improve the lives of all Americans, and then he talks about how we need to start basically going to war with these "evil" corporations and wealthy white people. He doesn't understand the fact that it's generally not profitable to be dishonest and cruel as a CEO. He doesn't buy into the fact that not every rich person was given a silver spoon. He doesn't realize that many rich people simply worked hard, were honest, and earned their way, and he doesn't believe seem to believe anyone should keep what they've earned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingJustin View Post


    Still, I think he overplayed how difficult it is to move up in America, or how hard it is for a race/ethnicity to move up. Jews, Irishmen, and Asians have all moved up much faster than blacks. Even Hispanics are moving up quicker than black people are now. This tells me that there are some serious cultural issues inside the black community -- NOT TO SAY that there weren't injustices, and that there's not a little racism in America today, and that it is a little harder for a poor black person to succeed than a rich white person.

    It easier for Asian, Africans etc to migrate to the US and be successful. African American have a deep rooted history of slavery and legalized discrimination in the United States. What I'm trying to say is psychologically the African America community is jacked up. I blame rap music.
    Seriously, blame the parents or lack of parenting.

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    Banned KingJustin's Avatar
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    I buy the fact that there are still some issues with racism, but I think it's also overplayed.

    As a case in point, the majority of blacks think they are at a disadvantage when applying to college against white people with roughly the same grades/test scores/EC's. I can tell you, very plainly, that this is VERY VERY far from being true.

    I can accept that some white people see black people and think "not going to work hard." And, they probably see Asians and think "probably hard working." But Affirmative Action should be kicking in anyway, and they should be equal. But, for some reason, Hispanics are making much greater strides, even though they are coming from just as bad of a situation. And I think the culture of both groups is to blame to an extent. Again, not saying that it's the end-all-be-all.

    It seems you accept this to be the case:
    "Seriously, blame the parents or lack of parenting."

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    Senior Member BilltheButcher's Avatar
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    I've known my friend now for 18 years of my life, which is all of mine, and all but a few months of hers. She has said things which I don't agree with, i've said things she doesn't agree with. We still get along.
    One difference, you or your friend aren't one step away from being the leader of the free world with millions of people looking to you for leadership and enough nukes to destroy the world 50 times over.

    What troubles me is that Obama is the candidate everyone is putting up there as the one that makes the right decisions. What decision has he been right on? Not voting for the Iraq war? So only one decision. But he has a history of not voting for something, so he can later on say that he was against it and if it was successful and he abstained or voted no its kind of easier to sweep under the carpet. That is the one thing he and his supporters hang their hat on - the no vote, but we all know he isn't going to pull the troops out, all he is going to do is get into office and say, Oh boy Bush kept everything hidden from us and this is much more complicated then we thought.

    Remaining at a church and being a very strong supporter of a blatant racist shows me terrible judgement of character. On top of his insane Jimmy Carter like ideals this guy has proven poor judgement for vilifying rich people and corporations. A very good friend of mine plays pro baseball and he happened to see a teamates paycheck (a guy that makes many millions) just one of his paychecks he paid something like $400k to taxes, over 50% of his check. Ya, he still makes a lot, but he pays more in taxes then probably everyone in your town. But lets make sure they are punished - huh?

    I really hate what America is becoming - OOOPS, I just pulled a reverse Mrs. Obama.
    Never shall innocent blood be shed, yet the blood of the wicked shall flow like a river. The Three shall spread their blackened wings and be the vengeful striking hammer of God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BilltheButcher View Post
    One difference, you or your friend aren't one step away from being the leader of the free world with millions of people looking to you for leadership and enough nukes to destroy the world 50 times over.

    What troubles me is that Obama is the candidate everyone is putting up there as the one that makes the right decisions. What decision has he been right on? Not voting for the Iraq war? So only one decision. But he has a history of not voting for something, so he can later on say that he was against it and if it was successful and he abstained or voted no its kind of easier to sweep under the carpet. That is the one thing he and his supporters hang their hat on - the no vote, but we all know he isn't going to pull the troops out, all he is going to do is get into office and say, Oh boy Bush kept everything hidden from us and this is much more complicated then we thought.

    Remaining at a church and being a very strong supporter of a blatant racist shows me terrible judgement of character. On top of his insane Jimmy Carter like ideals this guy has proven poor judgement for vilifying rich people and corporations. A very good friend of mine plays pro baseball and he happened to see a teamates paycheck (a guy that makes many millions) just one of his paychecks he paid something like $400k to taxes, over 50% of his check. Ya, he still makes a lot, but he pays more in taxes then probably everyone in your town. But lets make sure they are punished - huh?

    I really hate what America is becoming - OOOPS, I just pulled a reverse Mrs. Obama.




    Funny how you used the example of owning enough nukes to destroy the world 50 times but then you downplay his decision about not voting on the Iraq war. Seems to me that Obama doesn't have the war on terrorism blinders on. That means plenty when you do own many nukes vs the warmongers like McCain who will continue what President Bush Started. No wonder Bush gave him the red carpet treatment at the White House.


    Sorry about your friends paycheck but you can't blame Obama for that. I believe Bush administration is currently running the White House. Before Our warmongering started my $680US would give me $1000 Canadian, now I don't get anything. Financing wars, is helping destroy our economy.

    This current administration is screwing over the military. The love us when we're active duty but aren't ashamed about cutting Veteran benefits.

  24. #24
    Banned KingJustin's Avatar
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    Most of the political-minded posters on this board don't like Bush. He's a pretty fiscally-irresponsible idiot and not exactly conservative.

    Something about the artificially low interest rates (thus, high rates of inflation), extremely high spending, lowered taxes, apathy towards changing fuel sources (gas prices are terrible), willingness to bail out fiscally irresponsible companies, etc, etc has led to serious problems...

  25. #25
    Who is John Galt? CrazyK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingJustin View Post
    Most of the political-minded posters on this board don't like Bush. He's a pretty fiscally-irresponsible idiot and not exactly conservative.

    Something about the artificially low interest rates (thus, high rates of inflation), extremely high spending, lowered taxes, apathy towards changing fuel sources (gas prices are terrible), willingness to bail out fiscally irresponsible companies, etc, etc has led to serious problems...
    Agreed. Not letting the free market take its course has terrible drawbacks. The short term effect is positive but the long term effects of central planning an economy such as the federal reserve does, are enourmous.
    Last edited by CrazyK; 03-19-2008 at 02:21 AM.
    "You shall invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best who are the guided ones."- Quran 16:25

    "A life unexamined is not worth living"- Socrates

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