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Thread: Pre-Workout Nutrition REVISITED

  1. #76
    C.S.C.S. ddegroff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Schaedle View Post
    Could we attribute this to the pre dex/pro?
    I'd say no. Now yes we see progression but there is way too many variables to say conclusively it's the pre dex/pro.

    Which is the point I'm getting at. Most of these studies focus on such a needle in a hay stack. Meals 2hrs, 4hrs, etc. pre could contribute to their perfromance. Also the post-workout recovery meals could play just as big of role. I could go on but then I would be rambling. Too many variables. I think this is the biggest disconnect between studies and real life applications, IMO.
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    Banned Slim Schaedle's Avatar
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    If the added dex/pro beforehand was the only the thing they changed or added, what would be the contributing factor, if all else remained the same?

  3. #78
    C.S.C.S. ddegroff's Avatar
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    From the research that you provided then I would say it is the pre supplementation.
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    "Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal--
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddegroff View Post
    From the research that you provided then I would say it is the pre supplementation.

    Now you know them's fightin' words...

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    Banned Slim Schaedle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddegroff View Post
    From the research that you provided then I would say it is the pre supplementation.
    I certainly agree that there are a ****load of factors and that studies do not always indicate real life, etc. etc.


    But when minor adjustments translate into instant results, it usually seems like we can narrow it down.

    Anyone know if the benefit of creatine is instant? To my knowledge it is not.

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  7. #82
    Banned Slim Schaedle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Built View Post
    Neither are AAS.

    Ha! Testosterone is useless for all but toning reps!
    Ahem, ...Study?
    Last edited by Slim Schaedle; 03-29-2008 at 02:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bjohnso View Post
    It's a good thread. There is a ton of good info here.
    ditto
    Go now, run along and tell your xerxes he faces free men here, not slaves

  9. #84
    C.S.C.S. ddegroff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Schaedle View Post
    I certainly agree that there are a ****load of factors and that studies do not always indicate real life, etc. etc.


    But when minor adjustments translate into instant results, it usually seems like we can narrow it down.

    Anyone know if the benefit of creatine is instant? To my knowledge it is not.
    Right. It was tough writing that because not everyone is that scientific about it (only changing one variable, ie pre wo nutrition). But the way you narrowed it down it was really the only answer to give.

    I had that discussion with a nutrition teacher a few years back about creatine. We looked over a study that was done over a one week period. The study found no benefits. I attacked the study and said it was too soon to tell. We argued about how the body can't store creatine etc. etc.

    Like a said before, it's all about constancy. Whatever your doing, diet, routine, sleep, follow it for a longer period of time to see the results. Then adjust from there.
    Make Shift IF diet
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  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddegroff View Post
    Right. It was tough writing that because not everyone is that scientific about it (only changing one variable, ie pre wo nutrition). But the way you narrowed it down it was really the only answer to give.

    I had that discussion with a nutrition teacher a few years back about creatine. We looked over a study that was done over a one week period. The study found no benefits. I attacked the study and said it was too soon to tell. We argued about how the body can't store creatine etc. etc.

    Like a said before, it's all about constancy. Whatever your doing, diet, routine, sleep, follow it for a longer period of time to see the results. Then adjust from there.
    Well said.

    That is why I am personally hesistant to spend a considerable amount of money on something that is not as basic (carbs, being a macronutrient) as opposed to other substances. (unless I am seeing an immediate result or a can 100% say it is making a difference)

    With regards to studies that are controlled, and have various weaknessess, we basically have two categories:

    Substances with alot of studies vs. subtances with one or two.
    Last edited by Slim Schaedle; 03-29-2008 at 11:43 AM.

  11. #86
    C.S.C.S. ddegroff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Schaedle View Post
    With regards to studies that are controlled, and have various weaknessess, we basically have two categories:

    Substances with alot of studies vs. subtances with one or two.
    That's where the personal experience fills in the gray areas.
    Make Shift IF diet
    My Training Experience
    GET BODY SMART
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    CF WOD and Recomp...
    "My fault. I was fiddling with the Gravitational Constant of the Universe again.
    I've set it back - you might need to reboot, though..." -Built

    "Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal--
    nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong attitude" - Thomas J

    "Obsessed is what the lazy call the dedicated" - Slim Schaedle

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddegroff View Post
    That's where the personal experience fills in the gray areas.
    Exactly.

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    What's your take on Justins Harris' supplement, Anatrop? Based on my knowledge and from what I've read about it, it's everything you need excluding carbs.
    Better bang for your dollar to go this route mixed with a carb source (waxy maize, dex, etc.) or buying everything seperately?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    What's your take on Justins Harris' supplement, Anatrop? Based on my knowledge and from what I've read about it, it's everything you need excluding carbs.
    Better bang for your dollar to go this route mixed with a carb source (waxy maize, dex, etc.) or buying everything seperately?
    I haven't looked at it but the only thing I buy that is not individual is a $20 Pill NO product called NOS Precursor.


    Everything else is individual so I can custom tailor things.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Schaedle View Post

    Everything else is individual so I can custom tailor things.
    Nice to know I'm not the only control freak with this stuff.

    I don't even take a multivitamin!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Built View Post
    Nice to know I'm not the only control freak with this stuff.

    I don't even take a multivitamin!
    Well, ya got me on the multivitamin.

    And well...if I use a green drink...that would be a little hard to individualize.


    But, there's no way in hell I am shelling out cash for something that can easily be customized.

    WBB taught me back in 2002 the wonders of buying dextrose, maltodextrin, etc. alone and ditching the cell-tech and phosphagen HP.
    Last edited by Slim Schaedle; 03-30-2008 at 10:48 PM.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Schaedle View Post
    Well, ya got me on the multivitamin.

    And well...if I use a green drink...that would be a little hard to individualize.


    But, there's no way in hell I am shelling out cash for something that can easily be customized.

    WBB taught me back in 2002 the wonders of buying dextrose, maltodextrin, etc. alone and ditching the cell-tech and phosphagen HP.
    Amen to that.

    I'm a firm believer in building my own fat burners, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Built View Post
    Amen to that.

    I'm a firm believer in building my own fat burners, too.
    Yes, I can get scapels and alcohol pads from work.

    And you only have to buy a blow torch once.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Schaedle View Post

    WBB taught me back in 2002 the wonders of buying dextrose, maltodextrin, etc. alone and ditching the cell-tech and phosphagen HP.
    Though I would like to say it is priceless information, I am sure I could estimate this site has saved me from fads. That estimate is... A LOT.

    Anywho... this Saturday I did my old pre-nutrition routine. Good meal ~3 hours to lifting, small dex/whey shake ~1 hr prior then a dilute one to sip on. Worked like a charm. Though it was the strength day from UD2, I believe it certainly helped. Once I'm off my diet I'll try and experiment with my lifting maybe.
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  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Schaedle View Post
    Well, ya got me on the multivitamin.

    And well...if I use a green drink...that would be a little hard to individualize.


    But, there's no way in hell I am shelling out cash for something that can easily be customized.

    WBB taught me back in 2002 the wonders of buying dextrose, maltodextrin, etc. alone and ditching the cell-tech and phosphagen HP.
    Quote Originally Posted by TopCat View Post
    Though I would like to say it is priceless information, I am sure I could estimate this site has saved me from fads. That estimate is... A LOT.

    Anywho... this Saturday I did my old pre-nutrition routine. Good meal ~3 hours to lifting, small dex/whey shake ~1 hr prior then a dilute one to sip on. Worked like a charm. Though it was the strength day from UD2, I believe it certainly helped. Once I'm off my diet I'll try and experiment with my lifting maybe.

    My work is done...

  21. #96
    TJW Keith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Schaedle View Post
    I haven't looked at it but the only thing I buy that is not individual is a $20 Pill NO product called NOS Precursor.

    I can't find any breakdown as to what exactly is in it, but here is the link to the product.

    http://www.troponinnutrition.com/ind...d=48&Itemid=48


    Anyone else familiar with it?
    Age: 24 Height: 5'9" Weight: 185

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    People need to quit ****ing asking what they need to do, exercise wise, until they reinforce their technique - Dave Tate

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  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    I can't find any breakdown as to what exactly is in it, but here is the link to the product.

    http://www.troponinnutrition.com/ind...d=48&Itemid=48


    Anyone else familiar with it?
    I can't really comment on BCAA's and leucine since I have never used them individually.

    From what I have read and seen, Justin likes them.

    But with any supplement, I think what matters most is what the little guys in the trenches get from it, not an endorsed athlete who gets free stuff.

  23. #98
    TJW Keith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Schaedle View Post
    But with any supplement, I think what matters most is what the little guys in the trenches get from it, not an endorsed athlete who gets free stuff.
    Good point.
    Age: 24 Height: 5'9" Weight: 185

    Gym PRs: 365/240/440=1045

    People need to quit ****ing asking what they need to do, exercise wise, until they reinforce their technique - Dave Tate

    The never-ending pursuit of becoming Strong(er) - My Westside journal

  24. #99
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    http://www.medbio.info/Horn/PDF%20fi...meostasis1.pdf

    Energy Stores in Humans.

    The surprising part of this business is that we have a very limited amount of circulating glucose in spite of a very rapid and extensive use of this sugar as anenergy source. Look at the table below. The highlighted area shows how long our blood and extracellular glucose can support differing activity levels.

    Our total reserve of blood glucose is around 20 grams. Twenty grams of glucose give enough energy for about 40 minutes with little or no activity! If you just sit and relax you could use all of your glucose in less than one hour! If you walk, glucose could disappear in around 15 minutes and moderate work (that which can be maintained for some few hours) might exhaust your sugar reserves in about 4 minutes.
    Last edited by Slim Schaedle; 04-01-2008 at 07:14 PM.

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