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Thread: Pre-Workout Nutrition REVISITED

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  1. #1
    Banned Slim Schaedle's Avatar
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    Pre-Workout GLUCOSE REVISITED

    From Lyle McDonals's The Protein Book

    Early research suggested that consuming carbohydrate immediatey prior to training hurt performance by causing blood sugar crash due to and insulin spike

    This is not universal

    Athletes prone to sugar crashing may want to delay the consumption of their immediate pre-workout nutrients until they are already into their warm-up.

    With regards to strength/power athletes, some research has suggested a benefit of pre-workout carbohdrates and a recent study found that consuming 1.0g/kg (.45g/lb) carbohydrates before, and an additonal .5g/kg (.22 g/lb) during workout, significantly reduced the decrease in muscle glycogen from training. Limiting muscle glycogen depletion can be important from a performance standpoint, especially for athletes who train twice daily.

    Using a rapidly digesting carbohydrate source such as dextrose or sucrose makes the most sense here as well, although, again susceptible athletes should watch for signs of a blood glucose crash.

    Prior to power/strength training, I recommend an intake of 0.3-1.5g/kg (0.13-0.22g/lb) of carbohydrate with an equalamount of protein roughly 30 minutes before training.

    This should optimize blood glucose levels and provide amino acids during the training session.

    So, what does glucose do for you?
    Last edited by Slim Schaedle; 03-22-2008 at 02:24 PM.

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    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    I always have my carbs a well half hour before training. Never had any food during a workout.

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    Berardi...

    Of course, his recommendation includes protein or AAs, but the advantages pertaining soley to glucose are mentioned.


    Advanced Workout Nutrition: Why Are You Still Drinking Gatorade?
    By Dr John M Berardi
    First published at www.t-nation.com, July 24, 2006.

    Too Many Pucks to the Head

    Standing in front of 30 NHL draft picks, I asked a no-brainer question:

    “So – during practices, training sessions, and games – how many of you drink sports drink? You know, like Gatorade, Surge, Endurox, etc. How many of you drink something like that?

    Only two hands go up.

    Shocked, I repeat the question:

    “You mean to tell me that only 2 of you drink anything other than water during training?”

    Uh huh.

    “Well, uh, then how many of you drink water during training, practice, or games?”

    Only twelve of the thirty hands go up. Anticipating a long day ahead, I agonized:

    “Oh boy…we’ve got our work cut out for us…”

    Although I’ve been around the block, working with clients at all levels – from recreational exercisers to the most elite athletes in the world – I’m sad to say that I continue to remain frightfully unprepared for the level of inattention to detail and the sheer ignorance of many of athletes when it comes to nutrition and supplements.

    Only 7% (2 athletes) of these 30 NHL draft picks were using some form of energy drink! And only 40% (12 athletes) of these 30 were even drinking water!

    So, what do we have left? Well, we’ve got over half of the athletes in the room (53% of these NHL draft pics) drinking NOTHING during training and competition. Unbelievable; especially considering the huge body of literature demonstrating the benefit of drinking something during training. Now, add some carbohydrate to that something and athletes can expect to see:

    -Improved aerobic and anaerobic endurance during training, practices & games

    -Decreased stress response to training, practices and games

    -Improved immune function post training and competition

    -Decreased acute phase inflammatory damage after training, practices & games

    -Improved whole body rehydration

    -Improved muscle and liver glycogen resythesis


    That’s a pretty impressive laundry list of benefits, isn’t it? We’re now talking athletes who have better staying power, better hydration, less likelihood of overtraining, fewer colds, and more overall energy.

    However, while carb drinks during and after training are good - athletes shouldn’t be stopping with carbs – they should be adding protein. Oh, I know, I know. Gatorade and Powerade have convinced you that carbs alone are the way to go. They’ve also told ya that the extra protein is either useless of will build bulky muscles.

    Well, frankly, that’s nonsense.

    What you’re witnessing are the attempts of companies selling carb-only drinks to justify their existence. The longer they keep the wool over your eyes, the more profits they can make from inferior carb-only drinks before their product becomes obsolete. After all, the writing is on the wall. Enlightened athletes are starting to realize that if they want to really supercharge their nutrition and recovery, they need to go the next step. And the next step is using targeted workout and post workout recovery drinks that include both carbohydrate and protein.

    Why protein? Well check out this list of benefits:

    -Increased muscle protein synthesis

    -Better and faster recovery from endurance, strength, & interval training

    -Reduced muscle soreness and perception of fatigue

    -Decreased muscle protein breakdown

    -Further enhanced glycogen resynthesis vs carbohydrate alone

    -Further enhanced immune function vs carbohydrate alone

    -Increased use of fat for energy at rest as well as during training and competition

    Now, at this point, we’re talking about athletes with more muscle strength, less body fat, an even stronger immune system, and the ability to train at higher intensities, more frequently. If you can’t see the benefits associated with this approach, you’d better get your head examined.

    Getting back to our hockey players, the hockey-specific benefits of carb-protein drinks taken during training and practice have already been documented. Research presented at the 2004 ACSM (American College of Sports Medicine) annual conference demonstrated that liquid protein/carb supplements taken during practice can acutely produce the following results:

    -Decreased reaction time for goal tenders

    -Increased skating speed during timed shift-simulation exercises

    -Increased shot and scoring accuracy

    As these data are more than 2 years old, it leads me to ask the question – where the heck have these NHL athletes have been? Maybe all those hours in sub-zero arenas have frozen parts of their brains? Maybe they’ve taken too many slap shots to the noggin? Or maybe their coaches, trainers, and therapists aren’t sharing the right information with them.

    Either way, it’s high time that athletes graduated from the primitive nutritional practices of the past and started moving into modern-day nutrition.

    Not Just For Hockey Players

    Of course, although I started this article off discussion hockey players, the huge list of benefits associated with carb-protein nutrition doesn’t extend only to these stick wielding athletes. In fact, real, measurable benefits associated with carbohydrate-protein nutrition have also been demonstrated in the following:

    -Endurance Cyclists

    -Endurance Runners

    -Triathletes

    -Weight Lifters

    -Alpine Skiers

    -Marine Recruits during basic training

    The amazing thing is that most of these sports are suffering from the same ignorance (or brain injury) that plagues my NHL draft picks.

    To illustrate this point, just a few weeks after my NHL presentation, I had the opportunity to visit with two other elite teams – one group of elite triathletes and one group of elite track cyclists. Guess what happened when I asked the same questions as above…

    Although these athletes averaged a little better on the “you’d better be drinking something” scale, there were still athletes skipping the workout nutrition. About 95% of the triathletes were taking in at least water during all training sessions. And 50% were taking in at least a glucose/electrolyte drink like Gatorade. Yet less than 20% of them were taking in carbohydrate and protein nutrition, as discussed above. That’s absolute madness considering the research discussed above.

    So if you’re an athlete, let me pose this question to you – what are you drinking during and after training?

    And coaches, the same question applies – what are your athletes drinking during and after training?

    If it’s either water-only or water plus carbs, let me ask the next question – how long is going to take before you realize that the addition of protein to your traditional carb drink can absolutely supercharge performance while improving recovery and training adaptation curves?

    3rd Grade vs PhD Level Sports Nutrition

    Although I’ve got a PhD in the area of Exercise and Nutritional Biochemistry and am a faculty member at the University of Texas at Austin, I also happen to direct the sports nutrition programs for the following elite sports teams:

    -The Canadian National Cross Country Ski Team (Cross Country Canada)

    -The Canadian National Alpine Ski Team (Alpine Canada)

    -The Canadian National Canoe/Kayak Team (Canoe/Kayak Canada)

    -The Canadian National Bobsleigh/Skeleton Team (Bobsleigh Canada Skeleton)

    -The Spike Professional Racing Team (USA Track Cycling)

    In addition to these teams, I also consult with the Toronto Maple Leafs, the University of Texas athletic department, the Canadian National Speed Skating Team (Speed Skating Canada), a host of individual high performance athletes in the NHL, NFL, CFL, and more.

    Now I don’t list these credentials to brag. (Well, maybe a little.) Rather, I list them to demonstrate that the combination of academic knowledge and real-world experience has enabled me to see the differences between what scientists think athletes should be doing and what they’re actually doing. It also enables me to see the differences between what athletes are actually doing and what I think they should be doing. Sometimes these gaps are quite large.

    Sure, there are a lot of both strength/power and endurance athletes out there that know the recommendations – they know that they should be taking in some carbohydrate during and/or after training. However, even the ones diligent enough to take their carbs are often using the wrong ones, in the wrong amounts, and at the wrong times.

    For example, when I talk to my athletes about workout nutrition, the ones who actually do use glucose electrolyte drinks often have absolutely no idea how much carbohydrate or how many calories they’re taking in per drink or per training session. All they know is that they drink a bottle of Gatorade or similar drink during training. Whether that Gatorade has 10g of carbohydrate or 100g, they don’t know.

    They also don’t know the following:

    -Whether that Gatorade has any protein in it

    -Whether to drink the Gatorade before, during, or after training

    -How many grams of carbohydrate and protein they’re getting/hour of training

    -How to adjust their carbohydrate and protein intake based on body type

    -How to adjust their carbohydrate and protein intake based on duration or intensity of effort

    And, truth be told, these are all huge problems – especially for elite athletes – both of the endurance and the strength/power persuasion.

    After all, knowing to drink some energy during training isn’t advanced nutritional knowledge – it’s primitive nutrition; what I’d call 3rd grade level nutrition. (And just because an athlete’s peers are at the kindergarten level doesn’t mean their 3rd grade nutrition is advanced.) I can’t state it any more clearly than this - if an athlete wants to compete at an elite level, they’d better strive for more than the 3rd grade practice of nutrition. Seriously, imagine if more athletes graduated from the 3rd grade nutrition level and ended up with the equivalent of a Masters or PhD-level nutritional intake. I tell you, the entire culture of sport would be transformed.

    But hell, maybe it’s actually better if most of the athletes out there ignored this information. If they did, the gap between them and my athletes would grow even wider, bringing my athletes more even more Gold Medals, National Championships, Super Bowls, and Stanley Cups!

    Practical Workout Nutrition

    At this point, I’d like to share with you some of the workout nutrition protocols I use and find most effective with my strength/power and endurance athletes. (Remember, when I use athlete in this context, I’m talking about competitive athletes who train a few hours per day). That’s right, here’s where it gets really practical.

    Workout Nutrition - Baseline

    As a baseline, start by ingesting 30g carbohydrate and 15g protein (in 500ml water) per hour of training. This means if you’re training for one total hour, you’re sipping your 30g carb and 15g protein drink during that hour. And if you’re training for two hours, you’re sipping your first 30g carb and 15g protein drink during the first hour and your second 30g carb and 15g protein drink during the second hour. And so on…

    Then, once your workout is done, you’ll have a whole food meal within an hour or two of training.

    Workout Nutrition - Customization

    For most athletes, the baseline recommendations above should do the trick. However, there are a few situations that may require special attention:

    First, if you’re an athlete who naturally has a very ectomorphic body type and tends to have a very difficult time maintaining body mass during high volume and/or high intensity training blocks or during competition periods (World Cups, etc), follow the strategy above and then, immediately after your workout, add another drink containing 30g of carbohydrate and 15g protein. After this drink, within 1-2 hours post exercise, have a whole food meal.

    Further, if you’re this type of athlete and you still need more recovery power and total dietary energy (after trying the above strategy), add an additional 15g of carbohydrate per training hour. This means each of your drinks would contain 45g carbohydrate and 15g protein per hour of training.

    Second, if you’re an athlete who naturally has more of an endomorphic body type and tends to gain weight easily or tends to gain fat during competition periods (World Cups, etc) when eating a higher carbohydrate diet, you’ll want to half the recommendation above by ingesting 30g carbohydrate and 15g protein for every 2 hours of training. Therefore you’d be averaging 15g carbohydrate and 7.5g protein for every hour of training.

    In addition to this, you’d add BCAA(branched chain amino acids) into your workout drink at a rate of 5g BCAA per hour of training. Therefore you’d end up with 15g carbohydrate, 7.5g protein, and 5g BCAA for every hour of training.

    Of course, all of these strategies work best as part of an all-round good nutritional plan. So don’t take these suggestions in isolation and think they alone are going to revolutionize your recovery. Sure, they’ll help. But you’ve gotta make sure you’re feeding well during the other 20+ hours of the day. And for more info on how you can do this, check out the Precision Nutrition program here.

    At this point, one question I’m often asked is this:

    “Can’t we just have a big post-exercise recovery drink? Why recommend a certain amount of workout drink per hour of training?”

    The answer to the first question is no. The answer to the second is below.


    First of all, having high blood concentrations of glucose (from the carbohydrate) and amino acids (from protein) during exercise is advantageous as the blood flow to working muscles is highest at this time. So, with a lot of nutrient-rich blood flowing to your working muscles, those nutrients will be best used for performance enhancement and recovery. Simply put, carbohydrate protein drinks are more effective when ingested during exercise vs after exercise.

    In addition to the physiological reasons above, there’s a very practical reason for recommending a certain amount of workout nutrition per hour of training – this recommendation helps you easily and efficiently regulate your daily energy intake such that it mirrors your training volume.

    For example, if you’re training 1 hour per day, you’ll need less total dietary energy than if you’re training 4 hours per day – but more dietary energy than if you didn’t train at all. So rather than trying to tinker around with your staple meals on a day-by-day basis, trying to eat “bigger” meals when you’re training more and “smaller” meals when you’re training less (these strategies being imprecise and difficult to objectively apply), all you have to do is have a few more or a few less workout drinks and your daily calorie intake upregulates or downregulates. Watch how this works:

    Training Volume*
    Energy From Workout Drinks**

    0 hours of training (day off)
    Baseline intake + 0 extra calories

    1 hour of training
    Baseline intake + 180 extra calories

    2 hours of training
    Baseline intake + 360 extra calories

    3 hours of training
    Baseline intake + 540 extra calories

    4 hours of training
    Baseline intake + 720 extra calories

    *Of course, intensity of training can also be taken into account, however this is beyond the scope of this article and, to be honest, this level of detail isn’t necessary for a large percentage of my athletes.

    **These calorie calculations assume the athlete is using the baseline recommendation of 30g carbs and 15g protein per hour of training.

    Finally, another question I’m often asked is this:

    “This applies only to strength and power athletes, right? After all, everyone knows endurance athletes shouldn’t eat all that protein.”

    Once again, nonsense. This information is applicable to all types of hard training high performance athletes. In fact, these recommendations were derived from a combination of a) my PhD studies, done with endurance cyclists and triathletes, b) my early coaching work with the Canadian National Cross Country Ski Team, and c) my early coaching work with the US National Bobsled Team. And these recommendations continue to work with all my athletes – from short burst, speed/power athletes (the Spike Cycling Team and Bobsleigh Canada Skeleton) to intermittent, anaerobic athletes (The Toronto Maple Leafs), to long duration cyclists and skiers (Cross Country Canada).
    Last edited by Slim Schaedle; 03-24-2008 at 08:38 AM.

  4. #4
    Banned Slim Schaedle's Avatar
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    From www.EliteFTS.com

    Retrieved from Dave Tate's training log.

    Question and Answer by Justin Harris.



    Justin Q and A

    Here are some of the questions I have asked Justin since the last update.

    Exactly how soon before training should I drink the pre-training

    drink and why?


    I drink it on the way to the gym. The nutrients in the pre-workout drink are designed around the low osmolality of waxy maize. What this means is that all the nutrients are pulled through the stomach to the small intestine very rapidly. There is no stomach distention or bloating. You can drink it DURING your first set and have no troubles. That's the beauty of Anatrop and waxy maize. There are no stomach problems, so instead of slamming a post workout drink hoping to REPLACE nutrients after your workout, you're actually already providing the correct nutrients for after the workout...BEFORE the workout.

    How soon after training should I have the post-training drink? I do cardio after I train. Should I drink it between the two?

    Take the drink immediately after cardio. You want to replenish nutrient levels in the muscle as soon as possible after training. Your body is low in muscle glycogen and most of the circulating blood aminos are going to be converted to glucose. This means that your body is craving nutrients. If there is little glycogen, and lowered levels of blood sugar and blood aminos, the body begins breaking down muscle tissue to provide those needs. Ingesting the drink as soon as possible after the workout provides as little lag time as possible when this is going on.

    This is more important in the offseason. In the dieting phase, our nutrition is designed not to load blood nutrient levels, but to keep them steady. So, the low GI carbs, essential fatty acids, and whole food protein from the meals before your training will be broken down slowly. This means that you SHOULDN'T be overly deficient in blood aminos and blood sugar after your workout.

    Wait until after cardio, though. The post-workout drink will flood your body with nutrients and raise insulin levels. Insulin blunts fat loss via an enzyme that shuttles fat to the mitochondria. When insulin is bound to a receptor, it tells that cell NOT to burn fat. We don't want that while doing cardio.

    In simple English, what is the waxy maize doing?

    Preventing muscle loss and fueling muscle growth. In plain terms, it gets to the muscles faster. It doesn't sit in the stomach. Instead, it goes directly to the bloodstream and directly to the muscles.

    It’s a lower GI carb. People don't understand why this is good. People know dextrose spikes insulin, and know that WAS good. The problem is that dextrose - or any sugar - DOES spike insulin WHEN it gets to the blood. But if it's sitting in the stomach for twenty minutes before it gets to the bloodstream, what good is that? By that time, waxy maize has reached the blood, combined with water and sodium, and has been taken up to the muscle.

    The body produces roughly the same amount of insulin for the amount of carbs you eat. If you have 100g of waxy maize, or 100g of dextrose, it doesn’t matter. The body produces the SAME amount of insulin
    . The dextrose insulin spike is higher, but that’s because it all rushes to the blood at the same time - well after the waxy maize has already been trickling into the blood stream for some time.

    Can I replace the pre-training drink with a Monster drink on days where I

    need a pick-me-up?

    You can combine the pre-training drink with a SUGAR FREE Monster drink. Pre-workout energy drinks contain stimulants. They're actually GOOD for fat burning, IF THEY HAVE NO SUGAR OR CARBS.

    Caffeine works by blocking adenosine receptors. Adenosine is the body's "sleepy" receptors. By blocking those, the body can't create the "sleep." So, there are more "wake wake" receptors active compared to "sleep sleep."

    Caffeine breaks down to about 85% paraxanthine. The xanthines are stimulants in their own right and have some unique properties. Additionally, one of the metabolites of caffeine is one of the "feel good" products of chocolate. All of this increases lipolysis, which in plain terms means that caffeine burns fat. It's good when dieting.

    But again, the energy drink has to be SUGAR FREE.

    What about Gatorade on high days? It seems to fit the profile of

    high carb, low fat and tons of sodium, correct?

    The carbs are all monosaccharides, which are simple sugars. On pre-contest high days, I prefer complex carbs - mostly for hunger reasons. In the offseason, however, the goal is to eat carbs, minimize fat, and raise insulin. Insulin is raised all day so there really isn't a major need to distinguish between simple carbs and complex carbs.

    How can I cook Chicken so it doesn’t taste like hell?

    Poach it. Cut it up, coat a pan with soy sauce and any other spices you like. Put the chicken in, then fill the pan with water until the chicken is covered. Cook on medium heat until the water is mostly cooked off. The chicken will be very moist.

    Can I replace my post-training shake with the same amount of carbs

    from sources like papaya, pineapple, oranges, grapes or Dr. Pepper?

    This would not be all the time but could be used as a break from sucking on the shaker cup with the pink liquid. I wouldn’t do this if you want to be at your best. These aren't bad, but they all contain fructose - and in the case of Dr. Pepper, high fructose corn syrup. I won't go too in-depth about fructose, but it isn't the most efficient carb source for restoring glycogen in the muscles.

    Fructose can be stored as muscle glycogen, but it tends to go to restore liver glycogen first. There's a reason waxy maize and certain carbs are used. It’s because they work better.

    When you're near 300 lbs in the offseason, it's tough to maintain that muscle mass. At that point, the little things become more and more important to continue making gains. If you're 135 lbs and 6'2”, the focus isn't on the little things - it's on getting some f-ing nutrients down.

    What's the deal with Metabotrop? You get me addicted and then pull

    it away from me! Just kidding. I stocked up. When is the best time to take it, and why?

    The loss of Metabotrop will be worth the wait. We’re bringing back the Metabotrop with the addition of another ingredient. We’re also coming out with a stimulant-free fat burner that you can take any time of the day, and as many times during the day as you want. We also have a VERY strong stimulant product coming out, and a neuro-enhancement stimulant as well.



    So, the wait will be worth it.

    The ingredients in the new product are designed to stimulate the release of fatty acids into the bloodstream while minimizing appetite. The best times to take it are first thing in the morning and either early afternoon or pre-workout later in the day. This provides a steady stream of thermogenesis and helps burn fat through the fatty acid release the product causes.

    Should I take Anatrop before, during and after cardio on the days

    I’m not training (cardio-only days)?

    You can take it before and after cardio on any day. It is VERY anti-catabolic and will help prevent muscle loss during the cardio session. It does contain calories, though, and these need to be accounted for, but they’re calories specific to the mechanisms of muscle building/sparing. So yes, it will be quite beneficial to take it with cardio. I wouldn't take it during cardio, as I like the cardio to be 100% about burning fat. Because of this, I would leave out any calorie sources during the cardio.

    What exactly do you mean by “cheat meal?” Is this a healthy cheat? Is there a time limit to this?

    If you're eating junk, you're shutting down fat burning. Even a mild "cheat" meal is going to be hypercaloric and switch the body from fat burning to nutrient storing, so you might as well go all the way. Load up on whatever you want. I've considered a whole large pizza an appetizer when close to a show.

    The huge influx of calories will restore muscle glycogen (you may already be as much as 1,000 calories depleted there – that’s 1,000 calories worth of glucose you can almost eat freely), aid in shutting off hunger hormones (reducing appetite), restore any vitamin/mineral/nutrient deficiencies the limited food options may create, and boost your metabolism. The metabolic boost from the huge calorie intake will make the following day especially effective for fat burning.

    Also remember that all the neurotransmitters in the brain that are derived from dietary nutrients (the mono-amines, dopamine, serotonin, nor-epinephrine and epinephrine) are all derived from L-tyrosine and L-tryptophan (for serotonin). Imbalances in these can cause forms of depression, fatigue, malaise, reduction in "predatory behavior," and other things that you don't want to deal with when dieting. The mega-influx of calories and protein offers the potential for better production of these neurotransmitters.
    Last edited by Slim Schaedle; 03-24-2008 at 04:21 PM.

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    From Paper to Iron Mike: Mike Stuchiner’s Journey to Elite
    By Myles Kantor
    For www.EliteFTS.com

    Mike Stuchiner is a paragon of tenacity. In 1991, the native of Long Island, New York entered his first powerlifting meet. On August 18, 2007, he earned his first elite total at the Cincinnati Pro Am with a 775-lb squat, a 555-lb bench press, and a 620-lb deadlift in the 275-lb weight class. Mike owns Tuck’s Nutrition in Plantation, Florida and is a member of Southside Barbell in Lake Worth, Florida.
    MK: Do you follow a certain nutritional program in terms of macro-nutrient percentages, meal timing, etc.?

    MS: In terms of percentages, no, but pre- and post-training meals are very important to me as well as a meal at bedtime. My pre-workout meal is higher in carbohydrates, and my post-training meal is really rich in protein and carbohydrates. As far as the foods that I eat, I’m a believer in a whole food diet, and my food choices tend to be calorie-dense and nutritionally rich. For example, I eat eggs, nuts, fruits and veggies, meats like bison, avocados, and oats. All of these food are rich in calories, EFAs, carbohydrates, and protein.

    MK: You have clearly spent much time studying nutrition. When did you become interested in this subject?

    MS: I became interested in alternative medicine about the time I was 17 years old.

    MK: What does your meet day nutrition look like?

    MS: My pre-meet meal is something light like eggs and oatmeal or grits. Throughout the meet, I will eat bars, nuts, and fruit. I also keep my fluid levels up.

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    A Powerlifter’s Guide to Making Weight
    By Matthew Gary
    For www.EliteFTS.com



    Immediately after weigh-ins, start drinking water again. Drink at least 16 ounces of water. Then eat some high energy foods. Focus on quality carbohydrates like oatmeal, apples, apple sauce, or bananas on meet day. Include foods that you enjoy because they are easier to get down if you’re nervous. I love peanut butter and jelly sandwiches on wheat bread. They taste delicious and they’re jam packed with calories including carbohydrates and fats for energy. Avoid sugar-filled and high glycemic carbohydrates like grapes, watermelon, candy, and fruit juices. This will spike insulin levels and lead to a crash. You want carbohydrates that will provide sustained energy.

    You can eat a candy bar when you get ready to deadlift if your energy levels have dipped and you need a quick boost. There’s no need to concern yourself with protein on meet day. It takes too long to digest and can slow you down. Lastly, it’s important not to change too much on contest day. If you’re not used to eating pancakes with syrup, then don’t all of the sudden eat a short stack before you lift. This could potentially wreak havoc on your stomach. Eat foods that are familiar.

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    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    I've read these.

    Tell me, in your own words, your take on the matter. Encourage some discussion if it's warranted.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  8. #8
    Banned Slim Schaedle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Stagg View Post
    I've read these.

    Tell me, in your own words, your take on the matter. Encourage some discussion if it's warranted.
    In a nutshell, I wanted to post some opinions, practices, preachings, of commongly known respected writers, researchers, and athletes.

    I also want to encourage others to provide their first hand experience.

    As far as my personal opinion, beliefs, and knowledge of fact....

    I have utilized many pre and post workout supplement and meal protocols.

    For a considerable amount of time, my practice was an immense amount of dextrose and some protein before and after training.

    The amount commonly consisted of in upwards of 150g for both, while including several other meals consisting of anywhere from 70-100g carbs. This practice dates back to 2003.

    The pre-meal certainly provided benefit for myself, and many others who I have helped (not for pay).

    As far as post-sugar lethargy or tiredness, we know this is a fact for some people due to the rise and fall of insulin. I have experienced this first hand, although it may not occur every time. I certainly combat this with caffeine and have done so since the inclusion of pre-wo dex drinks.



    I have avoided posting studies because of recent study-war that has begun, and the many weaknesses they have, can have, or have been accused of having.


    We can examine pre-wo carbohydrate supplementation from many angles.

    - substrate-level phosphorylation vs. oxidative phosphorylation
    - Thermodynamics.
    - Put more energy into a system and what happens?
    - basic nutriton and biochemistry including the above energy systems outlined in the articles and under what cicrumstances they occur
    - glycogenolysis
    - glycogenesis
    - glycolysis (and let's not forget, there are aerobic and anaerobic pathways for this)- the immense capacity for glycogen storage in muscle
    - the liver's limited glycogen storage and the fact that it is depleted throughout the day due to an imense requirement to synthesize numerous enzymes and substrates for basic functions, pathways, etc.
    - the fact that mainatining maxed glycogen stores is extremely hard to do and takes in excess of ~1,000g carb/day for the everage athlete.
    - pre-dex (or similar carb polymer drink) acts to top off liver glycogen and contribute to muscle glycogen even after periods of extreme carbohydrate loading. (even Lyle recomends to supplement with pre-wo carbs directly before the power workout after achieving 2 days worth of glycogen supercomposition.)
    - morning workouts in which liver glycogen will be very low and muscle glycogen will have been slowy used throughout the night for various purposes (glycogen is not ONLY used during exercise)
    - evening workouts after several hours in which a person works a day job, possibly being very strenuous, utlizing much of the stored glycogen.
    - The amount of carbohydrate included in the diet on a day by day basis vs. the amount included in the pre-wo drink.


    Basically, using the term "normal diet" does not mean anything.

    To really determine if a pre-wo carb drink will be beneficial, one has to look at the details of their diet, to include macros, their amounts, timing, use of pre-wo stimulants, etc.

    One could include many carbs in their diet, but let's say they wait a few hours until after their last meal to train, and their blood glucose has fallen. Their head gets fuzzy, they feel like ****, and even picking up the 45lb plates to add to the bar starts to get a little hard. Add some pre-wo dex, and at the very least, your brain feels better since it has some glucose to feed it. The brain certainly does not pull glucose from the muscle to feed itself.

    As I said before, exercise is not the sole way of depleting glycogen. The major means of forming ATP from ADP is oxidative phosphorylation. All we have to do is look at the importance of ATP (very basic biology) (aside from exercise), starting with its importance as the major supplier of energy in metabolism. And then trace ATP formation through the electron transport chain, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. (obviously, if dieting, the primary goal is to utlize fatty acids for these functions. However, the argument strictly pertains to glucose and its role and benefit for energy, strength, etc....not alternative methods of ATP production)

    Advantages of carbohydrate in the diet, and supplementing that amount, is in no way limited to endurance training.

    Obviously different people will feel and "handle" carbohydrates differently due to insulin sensitivity, etc. etc.

    So, this is what this thread is for.
    Last edited by Slim Schaedle; 03-25-2008 at 02:35 AM.

  9. #9
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    Ok, I changed my mind about not using a study

    Well, actually a review article. Not to be used as proof, but to reinforce discussion.


    Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 2003, 17(1), 187–196
    q 2003 National Strength & Conditioning Association

    Brief Review
    Carbohydrate Supplementation and
    Resistance Training

    G. GREGORY HAFF,1 MARK J. LEHMKUHL,2 LORA B. MCCOY,2 AND
    MICHAEL H. STONE3

    1Human Performance Laboratory, Midwestern State University, Wichita Falls, Texas 76308; 2Exercise Physiology
    Laboratory, Appalachian State University, Boone, North Carolina 28607; 3Sport Science, United States Olympic
    Committee, Colorado Springs, Colorado 80909.

    ABSTRACT
    There is a growing body of evidence suggesting that the
    performance of resistance-training exercises can elicit a significant
    glycogenolytic effect that potentially could result in
    performance decrements.
    These decrements may result in
    less than optimal physiological adaptations to training. Currently
    some scientific evidence suggests that carbohydrate
    supplementation prior to and during high-volume resistance
    training results in the maintenance of muscle glycogen concentration,
    which potentially could result in the maintenance
    or increase of performance during a training bout
    . Some researchers
    suggest that ingesting carbohydrate supplements
    prior to and during resistance training may improve resistance-
    training performance. Additionally, the ingestion of
    carbohydrates following resistance exercise enhances the resynthesis
    of muscle glycogen, which may result in a faster
    time of recovery from resistance training, thus possibly allowing
    for a greater training volume. On the basis of the
    current scientific literature, it may be advisable for athletes
    who are performing high-volume resistance training to ingest
    carbohydrate supplements before, during, and immediately
    after resistance training.


    Key Words: resistance training, glycogen, glucose, glycogenolytic,
    glycogenolysis
    Reference Data: Haff, G.G., M.J. Lehmkuhl, L.B. Mc-
    Coy, and M.H. Stone. Carbohydrate supplementation
    and resistance training. J. Strength Cond. Res. 17(1):187–
    196. 2003.

    Introduction

    Resistance training has become an integral part of
    the training practices of most athletes. With the
    increasing popularity of resistance training, many ergogenic
    aids and nutritional strategies have been employed
    in an attempt to improve performance or increase
    muscle growth. Many of these potential aids
    have not demonstrated any ergogenic effects.
    Carbohydrate
    supplementation is one ergogenic aid that is
    not often associated with resistance-training performance
    and muscle growth.
    Traditionally, carbohydrate
    supplementation is associated with aerobic exercise
    performance. In this context, carbohydrate supplementation
    has been shown to increase the amount of work
    that can be performed (37, 61, 79) as well as increase
    the duration of aerobic exercise (20, 80). The elevation
    of blood glucose (BG) associated with supplementation
    is suggested to improve aerobic performance
    through reduction of muscle glycogen use (3, 5, 80) or
    through the use of BG as a predominant fuel source
    as glycogen becomes depleted (14, 35, 61).

    Evidence presented in the scientific literature suggests
    that intermittent activities can stimulate signifi-
    cant glycogenolytic effects (6, 70, 78). Because typical
    resistance training is intermittent in nature, a similar
    effect on muscle glycogen concentration might be expected.

    Recently, several studies have reported that resistance-
    training bouts can significantly decrease muscle
    glycogen stores (25, 54, 67, 72, 73). These investigations
    suggest that muscle glycogen is an important
    fuel source during resistance-training activities. In
    fact, reductions in muscle glycogen concentration have
    resulted in accentuated exercise-induced muscle weakness
    (80), decreased isokinetic force production (40),
    and reduced isometric strength (36). Theoretically, the
    implementation of a carbohydrate supplementation regime
    may prevent decreases in performance and stimulate
    an increase in muscle glycogen resynthesis
    (65).
    This may allow athletes who are performing resistance
    exercises to train at higher intensities or perform more
    work, thus potentially enhancing the physiological adaptations
    that are associated with resistance training.

    The purpose of this review is to explore the physiological
    and ergogenic effects of carbohydrate supplementation
    on resistance-training exercise and identify
    future areas of investigation.

    Resistance Training and Glycogenolysis
    Traditionally, it has been thought that short-duration
    high-intensity exercise is primarily supplied with energy
    from the muscular stores of phosphagens (adenosine-
    triphosphate phosphocreatine system), with glycogenolysis
    and glycolysis supplying minimal
    amounts of energy (55). Recently, glycogenolysis has
    been demonstrated to be an important energy supplier
    during high-intensity intermittent exercises, such as
    resistance training
    (54, 67, 72, 73).

    Recently, Haff et al.
    (26) reported that 3 sets of isokinetic leg extensions
    performed at 1208·s21 can reduce the muscle glycogen
    content of the vastus lateralis by 17%. Additionally, in
    the same investigation a multiple-set resistance-training
    session (back squats, speed squats, 1-leg squats)
    performed at 65, 45, and 10% of 1 repetition maximum
    (1RM) back squat resulted in a 26.7% decrease in muscle
    glycogen of the vastus lateralis. Tesch et al. (73)
    have also reported a 40% reduction in muscle glycogen
    in response to the performance of 5 sets of 10 repetitions
    of concentric knee extensions performed at 60%
    of 1RM. A 30% decrease in the muscle glycogen content
    of type IIab and IIb fibers in response to this protocol
    was also reported (73). Muscle glycogen concentration
    was also reported to decrease by ;20% in response
    to the performance of 5 sets of 10 repetitions
    at 45% of 1RM. Similarly, Robergs et al. (67) have
    shown that 6 sets of 6 repetitions of leg extensions
    performed at 70 and 35% of 1RM can elicit a signifi-
    cant glycogenolytic effect resulting in 39 and 38% reductions
    in glycogen, respectively. Type II fibers were
    also demonstrated to have a greater glycogen loss
    when compared with type I fibers (67).

    Tesch et al. (72)
    also reported that a 26% decrease in the muscle glycogen
    content of the vastus lateralis can occur in response
    to a resistance-training regimen consisting of
    5 sets of front squats, back squats, leg presses, and
    knee extensions. One set of 10 repetitions of biceps
    curls can also reduce muscle glycogen by 13%, whereas
    3 sets of 10 can result in a 25% reduction in muscle
    glycogen (54). Pascoe et al. (65) have reported a 31%
    reduction in muscle glycogen content in response to
    leg extensions performed to muscular failure (sets: 8.0
    6 0.7). The results of these studies indicate that muscle
    glycogen is an important fuel source during resistance
    training and suggest that glycogen depletion is dependent
    upon the total amount of work accomplished.

    Resistance-training sessions that center on higher
    repetition schemes (8–12 repetitions) and moderate
    loads such as those utilized during the hypertrophy
    phase of many athletes and bodybuilders may have a
    greater effect on muscle glycogen concentration than
    those of lower repetition schemes. However, very little
    research has been conducted examining the glycogenolytic
    effect of low-volume, heavy-load resistancetraining
    protocols.

    Typical high-volume resistance training,
    which involves moderate to heavy loads,
    seems to preferentially deplete type II fibers. Because
    type II fibers usually express higher glycolytic enzyme
    activity than do type I fibers, a preferential depletion
    of muscle glycogen may not be totally unexpected (23).
    The preferential depletion of type II fibers during
    high-intensity exercise (24, 78), such as resistance
    training, may compromise the performance of highintensity
    exercise and ultimately lead to a decrease in
    performance.

    Muscle Glycogen and Carbohydrate Consumption
    Reduction in muscle glycogen can potentially result in
    reductions in performance. Decreased isokinetic force
    production (40), reduced isometric strength (36), and
    accentuated muscle weakness (80) have been reported
    in the scientific literature in response to reductions in
    muscle glycogen. The implementation of a carbohydrate
    supplementation regimen may reduce the muscle
    glycogen loss associated with resistance-training
    bouts. Only 1 published investigation to date has explored
    the effects of carbohydrate supplementation on
    muscle glycogen loss during a typical resistance-training
    bout (26). Haff et al. (26) report that the consumption
    of a carbohydrate beverage prior to and during
    an acute resistance training bout can attenuate muscle
    glycogen loss. In this investigation a carbohydrate beverage
    was ingested prior to and every 10 minutes
    throughout a free-weight resistance-training bout that
    took ;39 minutes. The training bout consisted of 3
    sets of 10 repetitions of back squats (65% of 1RM),
    speed squats (45% of 1RM), and 1-leg squats (10% of
    1RM) and elicited a 26.7% decrease in the muscle glycogen
    content of the vastus lateralis with the placebo
    treatment. However, the training bout only elicited a
    13.7% decrease in muscle glycogen content when a
    carbohydrate supplementation regimen was employed.
    This decreased rate of glycogenolysis seen with the
    carbohydrate treatment may be related to an increased
    glycogen synthesis during the rest intervals of intermittent
    exercise (52). The results of the study by Haff
    et al. (26) suggest that carbohydrate supplementation
    prior to and during resistance training can maintain
    muscle glycogen stores. Additionally, the inclusion of
    a carbohydrate supplementation regimen of the type
    used by Haff et al. (26) may be beneficial in the maintenance
    of daily glycogen levels, which could potentially
    accentuate the benefits of training.
    The daily maintenance of glycogen stores appears
    to be directly related to the carbohydrates in the diet
    (12, 13, 39). The consumption of carbohydrates during
    and after exercise will increase the glycogen synthesis
    rates following exercise.


    Costill et al. (13) have reported
    that minimal glycogen synthesis occurs after exercise
    when no carbohydrates are consumed. The
    amount of muscle glycogen synthesis in the 24-hour
    period postexercise is also directly correlated
    (r=0.84) to the amount of carbohydrate ingested and the
    timing of that ingestion. During the 6 hours postexercise,
    a diet consisting primarily of simple carbohydrates
    appears to induce a greater glycogen resynthesis
    rate. In fact, relatively little glycogen resynthesis
    occurs when no carbohydrates are consumed after exercise
    (38, 39, 56). When carbohydrates are given immediately
    after and 1 hour after resistance exercise, the
    muscle glycogen content of the vastus lateralis is returned
    to 91% of resting values compared with 75%
    of pre-exercise values in 6 hours when only water is
    given (65). Thus, delaying the ingestion of carbohydrates
    after exercise by as little as 2 hours can significantly
    decrease the amount of glycogen resynthesis.
    This decrease may be of particular interest to athletes
    who perform multiple training sessions on one day. If
    the athlete can increase the amount of resynthesis between
    exercise bouts, an increase in performance may
    occur during the second bout of exercise on a given
    training day.

    Resistance Training and Blood Glucose
    A reduction in blood glucose concentration is not normally
    experienced during a typical resistance-training
    session (26, 28, 43, 58, 67, 75). Keul et al. (43) investigated
    the metabolic response of 15 resistance-trained
    subjects to a 1-hour training session consisting of the
    bench press, deadlift, and squats. No significant
    changes in blood glucose levels were noted in response
    to the training bout. Similarly, Haff et al. (26) have
    reported no significant alterations in blood glucose
    levels in response to a 40-minutes free-weight resistance-
    training session. Additionally, Haff et al. (28) report
    no alterations in blood glucose levels in response
    to 57 minutes of isokinetic leg exercise.
    Conversely, Vanhelder et al. (75) found that blood
    glucose concentration increased in response to 7 sets
    of full squats performed at 80% of a 10RM. Haff et al.
    (27) have also reported that blood glucose concentrations
    increase in response to a resistance-training session
    lasting approximately 1 hour. Robergs et al. (67)
    examined the metabolic effects of 8 male subjects performing
    6 sets of knee extensions at 35 and 70% of
    their 1RM. It was determined that following the sixth
    set, blood glucose concentration was significantly elevated
    when compared with resting values. Two hours
    after exercise, blood glucose returned to resting values.
    However, blood glucose concentrations at rest, after
    the sixth set, and 2 hours after exercise were found to
    be similar when accounting for the plasma volume
    shift. Additionally, McMillan et al. (58) have reported
    that blood glucose concentrations increase as a result
    of a resistance-training bout. Similarly, Conley et al.
    (11) suggest that blood glucose concentrations were
    significantly (p 5 0.001) elevated immediately after exercise,
    in response to a resistance-training session. The
    blood glucose increases found in these resistance training
    studies were similar to those reported for
    high-intensity aerobic exercise (80–100% V˙ O2max) (19,
    22) and anaerobic cycling (44).

    Blood Glucose Response to Carbohydrate Supplementation
    There is substantial evidence in the literature to suggest
    that the consumption of carbohydrate beverage
    before and during resistance training results in elevations
    in blood glucose levels during and after the
    training bout
    (11, 26, 28, 29, 51). Haff et al. (28) investigated
    the effects of carbohydrate ingestion on 16 sets
    of 10 repetitions of isokinetic leg extensions and flexions.
    Significantly higher blood glucose levels were
    seen at set 8 and immediately after the resistancetraining
    bout when subjects consumed a carbohydrate
    supplement (20% maltodextrin and dextrose solution)
    10 minutes before and after sets 1, 6, and 11 of exercise.

    Similarly in another investigation Haff et al. (26)
    observed higher blood glucose levels pre-exercise and
    immediately after exercises when subjects consumed a
    carbohydrate solution (20% maltodextrin and dextrose
    solution) 10 minutes before and every 10 minutes during
    a resistance-training session.
    Additionally, Haff et
    al. (29) report significantly higher blood glucose concentrations
    immediately postexercise, 1 hour postexercise,
    and 2 hours postexercise when subjects consumed
    a carbohydrate solution (20% maltodextrin and
    dextrose solution) before and after every other set during
    the performance of back squats at 55% of their
    1RM until voluntary failure.

    Conley et al. (11) examined the effect of carbohydrate
    ingestion on the performance of multiple bouts
    of back squats at 65% of 1RM to voluntary failure.
    Blood glucose was found to be significantly higher
    during the carbohydrate supplementation (20% maltodextrin
    and dextrose solution) trials for the pre-exercise
    (p 5 0.036), immediately after (p 5 0.031), and
    2 hours after exercise (p 5 0.026) when compared with
    the placebo trials.

    Lambert et al. (51) examined the effect of carbohydrate
    ingestion on the performance of multiple
    bouts of leg extensions at 80% of the subject’s 10RM.
    Blood glucose was significantly higher (p , 0.05) in
    the carbohydrate supplemented (10% glucose polymer)
    trials after the seventh set and at failure, when
    compared with the placebo trials (51).

    It is likely that the elevations in blood glucose seen
    with the varying supplementation protocols in the literature
    result in either a reduction in muscle glycogen
    utilization (3, 5, 80) during the exercise bout or a faster
    glycogen resynthesis rate after exercise. When the carbohydrate
    supplement is consumed prior to and during
    the resistance-training bout, it appears that BG
    plays a critical role in fueling glycolysis (51). Additionally,
    it is likely that elevations in blood glucose directly
    affect the hormonal response to resistance training



    Hormonal Responses to Carbohydrate Ingestion
    The hormonal responses that occur in response to
    acute and chronic resistance training are currently being
    investigated (7, 30–34, 50, 58). The addition of a
    carbohydrate supplementation regimen to a resistance-
    training program may result in an enhanced anabolic
    environment. The enhancement of the anabolic
    environment could potentially increase muscle hypertrophy
    and ultimately increase resistance-training performance
    .

    Insulin. Insulin is a polypeptide hormone that is
    produced in the b-cells of the islets of Langerhans in
    the pancreas. This hormone functions to (a) lower
    blood glucose level by enhancing cellular uptake, (b)
    enhance the storage of glycogen, (c) enhance fat storage,
    (d) enhance cellular uptake of amino acids, (e)
    increase the synthesis of proteins, and (f) suppress the
    catabolism of proteins (48, 49, 66).

    Typically, increases
    in the concentration of plasma insulin occur in response
    to elevations in glucose, amino acids, and fatty
    acids (57). Thus, the consumption of a carbohydrate
    supplement before and during resistance exercise
    might be expected to significantly increase insulin
    concentrations. Fahey et al. (18) have demonstrated
    that the ingestion of a liquid meal (13 g protein, 32 g
    carbohydrate, and 2.6 g of fat) 30 minutes before and
    during exercise can significantly increase insulin levels.

    Chandler et al. (8) have also reported that the ingestion
    of a carbohydrate beverage immediately before
    and 2 hours after a resistance-training bout resulted
    in significantly higher insulin concentrations when
    compared with a placebo beverage. These rises in insulin
    theoretically should result in increases in muscle
    glycogen stores, protein anabolism, and muscle hypertrophy.
    Increases in postexercise insulin levels in
    response to carbohydrate ingestion may result in enhanced
    glycogen synthesis and an anabolic hormonal
    state that potentially could result in an ergogenic effect
    .

    Currently, very few studies have investigated this
    potential ergogenic effect, and further research is warranted.
    Research exploring postexercise carbohydrate supplementation
    has suggested that myofibrillar protein
    breakdown can be decreased (69). In one investigation
    subjects consumed 1 g glucose per kilogram of body
    mass immediately after and 1 hour after exercise. The
    addition of the carbohydrate supplement resulted in a
    significant increase in plasma insulin and glucose concentrations
    when compared with a placebo. This finding
    was associated with the carbohydrate treatment
    eliciting significantly less 3-methylhistidine and urea
    nitrogen excretion, which suggests less amino acid
    transamination and oxidative deamination occurred.

    Additionally, the carbohydrate treatment resulted in a
    slightly increased fractional protein synthetic rate. Increases
    in insulin are often associated with increases
    in amino acid delivery that potentially stimulate increases
    in fractional muscle protein synthetic rate and
    whole body protein synthesis rate (4). In the study by
    Roy et al. (69) the combination of increases in insulin
    concentration and fractional protein synthetic rate and
    decreases in 3-methylhistidine and urea nitrogen excretion
    suggest that carbohydrate supplementation can
    result in a reduction of muscle protein degradation after
    resistance training.

    Recently, Tipton et al. (74) have reported that the
    timing of the consumption of a carbohydrate plus amino
    acid beverage (CAB) can significantly alter insulin
    levels and muscle protein synthesis rates. When the
    CAB was ingested prior to the resistance training bout,
    significantly greater net protein synthesis and higher
    insulin levels were seen when compared with postexercise-
    only consumption. This suggests it is possible
    that limiting carbohydrate supplementation to the
    postexercise period slows net protein synthesis. It is
    possible that this effect on net protein synthesis will
    be magnified if carbohydrate supplementation is undertaken
    before and during the resistance-training
    bout.
    However, no research to date has explored this
    hypothesis.

    On the basis of this limited research it appears that
    the inclusion of a carbohydrate supplementation regime
    may enhance protein synthesis or decrease muscle
    breakdown and ultimately enhance the effects of
    resistance training. This may be of particular importance
    to the strength athlete who is attempting to promote
    muscle growth and possibly enhance overall
    muscular strength. Additional research is necessary to
    develop a complete understanding of the effects of carbohydrate-
    induced insulin increases on muscle hypertrophy
    and resistance-training performance.

    Growth Hormone. Growth hormone is a polypeptide
    hormone that is involved with the growth process of
    skeletal muscle and other tissues (49). Increases in
    amino acid transport and protein synthesis have been
    reported as being stimulated by elevations in growth
    hormone (46, 47). Artificial elevations of growth hormone
    levels coupled with heavy resistance training are
    often associated with increases in lean body mass and
    decreases in fat mass (15). Additionally, elevations in
    growth hormone levels can be stimulated through the
    induction of hypoglycemia by insulin (68). Therefore,
    carbohydrate-induced insulin spikes may potentially
    lead to increases in growth hormone that may enhance
    hypertrophy induced by resistance training.


    Chandler
    et al. (8) have reported that supplements that promote
    the greatest insulin spike postexercise lead to signifi-
    cantly higher growth hormone levels 5–6 hours postexercise
    .
    These higher levels of growth hormone only
    occurred in carbohydrate and protein-carbohydrate
    treatment groups. Additionally, Kraemer et al. (50)
    have also reported that growth hormone and insulin
    were significantly elevated after day 1 of a 3-day carbohydrate
    supplementation and heavy resistancetraining
    regime. The combined data of these investigations
    lend some support to the concept that insulin
    may induce elevations in growth hormone postexercise.
    The elevations in growth hormone stimulated by
    carbohydrate supplementation may ultimately lead to
    increases in muscle hypertrophy and enhanced resistance-
    training performance.
    In order to fully understand
    these potential ergogenic effects, additional research
    exploring the interactions of carbohydrate supplementation,
    insulin, and testosterone are warranted.
    Cortisol.

    The steroid hormone cortisol is classified
    as a glucocorticoid. This specific glucocorticoid is considered
    a catabolic hormone in skeletal muscle (49). As
    a catabolic hormone, cortisol stimulates muscle protein
    degradation and inhibits protein synthesis in both
    type I and type II muscle fibers (41). Cortisol appears
    to be highly catabolic in type II fibers and less catabolic
    in type I fibers (42). Chronically elevated levels
    of cortisol can lead to muscle atrophy and loss of contractile
    proteins, which ultimately could reduce
    strength levels (21). These negative effects on muscle
    fibers may predominate in athletes who perform explosive
    strength-training exercises (i.e., power snatch,
    power clean, etc.) or participate in sports that require
    strength, power, and speed because there is a reliance
    on type II fibers (71) in these activities.
    Generally, it is believed that the myriad of catabolic
    effects stimulated by cortisol occur in order to stimulate
    gluconeogenesis (57). The inclusion of a carbohydrate
    supplementation regimen may result in a decreased
    demand for gluconeogenesis and a concomitant
    decrease in cortisol levels.
    Additionally, it has
    been demonstrated that the lowering of cortisol levels
    enhances the release of growth hormone in response
    to growth hormone–releasing hormone (17). As stated
    earlier, increases in growth hormone may lead to increases
    in muscle hypertrophy and resistance-training
    performance. Despite these potential benefits, very few
    studies have attempted to elucidate the effects of carbohydrate
    supplementation on postexercise cortisol
    levels. Several studies have demonstrated that the consumption
    of carbohydrates during aerobic exercise reduces
    postexercise cortisol levels (2, 16, 59). Similar
    cortisol responses to carbohydrate supplementation
    and resistance training may also be expected. Kraemer
    et al. (50) have reported suppressed cortisol levels in
    response to 3 days of carbohydrate supplementation
    and a heavy resistance-training regime. Additionally,
    increases in growth hormone were reported in conjunction
    with these suppressed cortisol levels. This
    suggests that insulin-mediated suppression of cortisol
    may result in increases in growth hormone concentration
    and thus lead to an ergogenic effect.

    The effects of glucose ingestion during prolonged
    endurance exercise on cortisol levels have also been
    shown to counteract negative immune changes (63).
    Elevations in cortisol levels stimulated by exhaustive
    endurance exercise appear to suppress the functioning
    of the immune system through a cytotoxic effect on its
    cells. Lymphocytes have been shown to be degraded
    in the presence of cortisol (10). Additionally, cortisol
    has been shown to decrease nucleic acid and protein
    synthesis in thymocytes (10). A similar effect might be
    expected with high-intensity resistance exercise. In
    fact, Nieman et al. (64) have reported that back squats
    performed to muscular failure can result in an immune
    response that is very similar to that seen with
    endurance exercise. Recently, Koch et al. (45) have reported
    that the ingestion of a carbohydrate beverage
    during a 20-minute resistance-training bout stimulates
    a minimal influence on immune response and no effect
    on cortisol response when compared with a placebo
    treatment. These authors suggest that the short duration
    of the training bout induced a stimulus that was
    insufficient to significantly elevate cortisol and thus
    impact the immune system’s functioning. When contrasting
    the cortisol and immune responses of the
    studies by Koch et al. (45) and Nieman et al. (64), it is
    clear that longer-duration resistance protocols (.35
    minutes), such as those that are typically undertaken
    in an attempt to induce hypertrophy and are marked
    by large training volumes, are needed to significantly
    affect cortisol levels and thus the immune system.
    The suppression of the immune system may be a
    critical issue in the body’s response to muscle damage.
    Typically, muscle damage is accentuated by exercises
    that have large eccentric muscle action components,
    such as resistance training (62). The suppression of the
    immune system may increase the recovery time as a
    result of an increased time needed to repair muscle
    damage. Therefore, the negative effect of cortisol on
    the immune system blunted by carbohydrate supplementation
    may reduce the time needed to recover
    from a typical resistance-training bout. Currently, no
    research exists exploring this hypothesis, and further
    investigation is needed to fully understand the effects
    of carbohydrate supplementation on cortisol and its
    relationship to the immune system during resistance
    training.

    Carbohydrates and Resistance-Training Performance
    Research examining the effects of carbohydrate supplementation
    on resistance-training performance is
    limited and presents conflicting results. Recently, Haff
    et al. (26) have reported that carbohydrate supplementation
    does not enhance or maintain isokinetic leg exercise
    performance. In this investigation, 3 sets of 10
    repetitions were performed at 1208·s21 prior to and after
    a free-weight resistance-training bout and were
    used as a marker of performance. Even though significant
    resistance-training regime, the addition of a carbohydrate
    supplementation (prior to and every 10 minutes
    during the resistance-training bout) did not elicit an
    ergogenic effect. However, this result may potentially
    be a product of the performance test selected. Recently,
    Leveritt and Abernethy (53) have reported that low
    levels of glycogen seem to impair the performance of
    back squats but have no effects on isokinetic leg exercise.
    Thus, it is possible that the maintenance of muscle
    glycogen reported by Haff et al. (26) with carbohydrate
    supplementation would have resulted in an enhancement
    of performance if a different performance
    test had been employed.

    Increases in resistance-training performance with
    carbohydrate supplementation have been reported in
    3 investigations presented in the literature. Lambert et
    al. (51) have reported that carbohydrate supplementation
    prior to and during resistance training can enhance
    the performance of sets of 10 repetitions of leg
    extensions performed at 80% of 10RM to muscular failure.
    In their study each subject participated in 2 testing
    trials where they consumed either a placebo or carbohydrate.
    The carbohydrate treatment elicited an increased
    number of sets (12.7) and repetitions (120).


    Similarly, Haff et al. (28) have reported that carbohydrate
    supplementation can increase the amount of
    work that can be performed during 16 sets of 10 repetitions
    of isokinetic leg extensions performed at
    1208·s21.

    Additionally, it was reported that significantly
    greater torque was generated by the quadriceps when
    the carbohydrate supplement was consumed
    .

    Recently,
    significant increases in resistance-training performance
    after carbohydrates are consumed during and
    between multiple training sessions in one day have
    also been reported (29). Two treatment sessions were
    conducted in this investigation, in which a carbohydrate
    or placebo beverage was consumed. Subjects ingested
    these treatments during a 1-hour morning
    training session, 4-hour recovery period, and an afternoon
    performance test consisting of sets of 10 back
    squat repetitions performed at 55% of the 1RM to volitional
    failure. The carbohydrate supplementation protocol
    used in this investigation resulted in significantly
    more repetitions (167.7) and sets (17.4) and greater
    exercise duration (131.6 minutes) during the afternoon
    performance test. The results of these 3 investigations
    seem to support the hypothesis that carbohydrate
    supplementation enhances resistance-training
    performance. However, it is important to note that all
    these studies required the subjects to perform a resistance-
    training session that required the performance
    of high volumes of work similar to those performed
    during the hypertrophy phase of a periodized program
    or the typical training of many body builders.
    Contrarily, 2 additional investigations have reported
    that carbohydrate supplementation does not elicit
    an ergogenic effect during resistance training. The first
    study, by Conley et al. (11), explored the effects of carbohydrate
    supplementation on the performance of sets
    of 10 repetitions at 65% of 1RM to volitional failure. A
    carbohydrate beverage was consumed 15 minutes before
    and after every successful set during testing.
    There were no significant differences in the number of
    sets or repetitions or total work observed between the
    2 treatments. Similarly, it has been reported that carbohydrate
    supplementation immediately before a freeweight
    resistance-training session consisting of 8 exercises
    does not result in an enhanced performance of
    isokinetic leg exercise after exercise (76).

    The discrepancy between these investigations is
    presently unclear. Several distinct possibilities exist for
    these differences. The most notable difference between
    the studies is the duration of exercise activity. The
    studies by Lambert et al. (51), Haff et al. (29), and Haff
    et al. (28) showed ergogenic effects when the exercise
    bout lasted 56 minutes, 77 minutes, and 57 minutes,
    respectively. In contrast, the studies that failed to demonstrate
    an ergogenic effect lasted 35 (11) and 39 minutes
    (26). Thus it is possible that the duration of the
    activity influenced the ergogenic effectiveness of the
    carbohydrate supplement.


    Anantaraman et al. (1) have
    reported that exercise bouts lasting less than 40 minutes
    primarily rely on muscle glycogen as a fuel
    source. Thus, as the duration of activity increased, a
    greater reduction in muscle glycogen and a greater reliance
    on exogenous blood glucose may have occurred.
    Secondly, the volume of work performed may be a significant
    factor mediating the ergogenic effect of the
    carbohydrate supplementation. It is possible that high
    volumes of work performed for a duration greater than
    40 minutes stimulate a greater stress on the glycogenolytic
    system. The 3 studies that demonstrated an ergogenic
    effect of carbohydrate supplementation all
    lasted longer than 55 minutes and required the subjects
    to perform high-volume work with moderate
    loads over that time frame. The consumption of a carbohydrate
    supplement during this scenario could possibly
    spare muscle glycogen (3, 5, 80) or result in BG
    becoming the predominant fuel source as glycogen becomes
    depleted (14, 35, 61). Thirdly, the exercise test
    selected may have resulted in the lack of an ergogenic
    effect. Two of the studies that reported no ergogenic
    effect utilized an isokinetic performance test. The
    study by Vincent et al. (76) utilized a protocol that
    required the subjects to perform 3 sets of 15 repetitions
    of isokinetic leg exercise at 758·s21 before and after a
    free-weight training program. Similarly, Haff et al. (26)
    used a testing protocol that required subjects to perform
    3 sets of 10 repetitions at 1208·s21 before and after
    a free-weight training program. It is possible that the
    potential ergogenic effect of carbohydrates would have
    been clearer if a different testing protocol had been
    employed.

    Evidence of a lack of impairment in isokinetic
    leg exercise performance has been reported in
    response to decreased levels of muscle glycogen (53).
    Impairments in exercise performance were also seen
    in the performance of back squats in the same study.
    The only other study to employ an isokinetic testing
    bout did, however, exhibit an ergogenic effect (28).
    Therefore, the major difference between this study and
    those that did not demonstrate an ergogenic effect is
    that the study lasted ;59 minutes and employed a
    protocol that required ;130 more repetitions. Thus the
    increased duration of activity and volume of work may
    have mediated the occurrence of an ergogenic effect.
    Another explanation for the lack of an ergogenic effect
    during isokinetic testing bouts may be that this is a
    result of less work being performed during the isokinetic
    bout. This may occur because isokinetic devices
    are not really isokinetic and force is only applied during
    a relatively small range of motion (9, 60). This potentially
    could decrease the amount of work performed
    and result in a masking of the ergogenic benefit
    of carbohydrate supplementation. Additionally,
    large-mass exercise may stimulate a greater amount of
    glycogen loss in a number of muscles (not just the
    prime movers), allowing for an increased ergogenic
    benefit from carbohydrate supplementation.


    There is limited research exploring the effects of
    carbohydrate supplementation on resistance-training
    performance. To our knowledge, these are the only investigations
    that have attempted to explore the relationship
    between carbohydrate supplementation and
    resistance-training performance. The data in the literature
    seem to suggest that carbohydrate supplementation
    has some ergogenic benefits for athletes who are
    using high-volume resistance-training protocols similar
    to those typically used in the hypertrophy phase
    of a periodized training program. However, due to the
    limited number of investigations in the literature, this
    relationship is still unclear. Further research is necessary
    to establish a clearer understanding of this relationship.
    Additionally, more research is needed to elucidate
    the effect of carbohydrate supplementation on
    different types of resistance exercise (i.e., large mass,
    small mass, isokinetic, isometric, and isoinertial).

    Directions for Future Research
    The present body of scientific knowledge suggests that
    carbohydrate supplementation can generate several
    potential ergogenic benefits for resistance exercise and
    training.
    At present there exist only a few empirical
    studies supporting the use of carbohydrate supplementation
    in conjunction with resistance training.
    There are several areas related to carbohydrate ingestion
    and resistance training that merit further investigation:
    1. What is the effect of carbohydrate supplementation
    on ability to perform work at different intensities?
    Under what conditions will increases in work be
    manifested?
    2. What is the relationship between different program
    variables (sets, repetitions, and rest intervals) and
    modes of resistance training (isotonic, isokinetic, eccentric,
    concentric, and isometric)?
    3. What are the effects of acute and chronic carbohydrate
    supplementation on hypertrophy, body composition,
    and athletic performance?
    4. What is the effect of carbohydrate-induced insulin
    increases on muscle hypertrophy and resistancetraining
    performance?
    5. What are the relationships between carbohydrate
    supplementation and the anabolic hormonal environment?
    6. What is the potential mechanism for the ergogenic
    effects of carbohydrate supplementation during resistance
    training?
    7. What is the relationship of high-glycemic carbohydrate
    supplements to the occurrence of obesity and
    diabetes mellitus?
    8. What are the effects of high-glycemic carbohydrates
    supplements on glucose sensitivity of athletes?

    Conclusions

    Current research strongly suggests that resistance
    training, especially using large–muscle mass freeweight
    exercises performed with high training volumes
    with moderate loads, is partially dependent
    upon muscle glycogen stores
    . The amount of glycogen
    used in these exercises also appears to be related to
    the total amount of work accomplished and the duration
    of the resistance-training bout. The ingestion of
    liquid carbohydrates prior to, during, and after exercise
    may serve to promote a faster recovery, which may
    enhance subsequent exercise and training sessions
    .
    Additionally, the implementation of carbohydrate supplementation
    prior to and during a resistance-training
    session appears to offer some ergogenic benefit,
    through increasing work output when the athlete is
    performing high-volume training with moderate
    loads.
    The ingestion of a carbohydrate beverage prior
    to and during a resistance-training bout may ultimately
    effect the overall net protein synthesis rate
    postexercise, which could magnify the hypertrophic
    response to training. These potential ergogenic effects
    may ultimately result in improved performance during
    daily training sessions, which could ultimately enhance
    performance in power sports such as football
    and weightlifting.


    Practical Applications

    The literature reviewed suggests that muscle glycogen
    plays an important role as a substrate in high-intensity
    anaerobic exercise bouts such as resistance training.
    This role may be magnified when multiple high-volume
    bouts of anaerobic exercise are performed in the
    same training day or athletes are participating in a
    comprehensive conditioning program that requires intense
    exercise on multiple days. The daily maintenance
    of glycogen stores may be of crucial importance for
    maximizing the performance gains associated with resistance
    training or conditioning programs.
    One potential
    mechanism for maintaining daily glycogen
    stores is the implementation of a carbohydrate supplementation
    regimen. The consumption of a liquid carbohydrate
    supplement immediately prior to, during,
    and immediately after daily training sessions may offer
    some ergogenic benefits to athletes who perform
    resistance-training exercises or multiple anaerobic
    bouts in the same training day
    (i.e., morning resistance
    training and evening football practice) or over a training
    week. These benefits may include increases in
    work output during training, increases in rates of recovery
    between training sessions, increases in protein
    synthesis rates, maintenance of muscle glycogen
    stores, and creation of an anabolic hormonal environment.
    All of these benefits could ultimately result in
    enhanced muscular strength and hypertrophy, which
    are of particular importance to athletes who compete
    in sports that require enhanced strength and size, such
    as American football.
    Additionally, the effects of a carbohydrate
    supplement’s ability to decrease stress on
    the immune system may be of additional benefit to
    anaerobic athletes.
    Therefore it may be advisable for
    athletes who are participating in resistance-training
    programs for high school, collegiate, and professional
    sports to implement a carbohydrate supplementation
    program on a daily basis in conjunction with a healthy
    diet. This supplementation program should center on
    consuming liquid carbohydrates prior to, during, and
    immediately after the resistance-training session
    ,
    whereas the remainder of the carbohydrate consumption,
    from the healthy diet, should focus on low-glycemic
    carbohydrate sources (fruits, vegetables, and
    grains) (77). It is important to make sure that athletes
    do not consume the majority of their carbohydrates in
    their diet from high-glycemic sources (sugars, candy,
    soda, sports drinks, etc.) because this practice may
    have some adverse effects on health such as increased
    risk of obesity and diabetes mellitus (77). Ultimately,
    the implementation of a carbohydrate supplementation
    regimen in conjunction with a healthy balanced diet
    may result in the enhancement of competition performance
    as a result of daily improvements in work output
    during training sessions.


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    during maximal intermittent cycling. J. Appl. Physiol. 66:
    8–13. 1989.
    71. TESCH, P.A. Skeletal muscle adaptations consequent to longterm
    heavy resistance exercise. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc. 20:S132–
    S134. 1988.
    72. TESCH, P.A., E.B. COLLIANDER, AND P. KAISER. Muscle metabolism
    during intense, heavy-resistance exercise. Eur. J. Appl. Physiol.
    55:362–366. 1986.
    73. TESCH, P.A., L.L. PLOUTZ-SNYDER, L. YSTRO¨M, M. CASTRO, AND
    G. DUDLEY. Skeletal muscle glycogen loss evoked by resistance
    exercise. J. Strength Cond. Res. 12:67–73. 1998.
    74. TIPTON, K.D., B.B. RASMUSSEN, S.L. MILLER, S.E. WOLF, S.K.
    OWENS-STOVALL, B.E. PETRINI, AND R.R. WOLFE. Timing of
    amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of
    muscle to resistance exercise. Am. J. Physiol. Endocrinol. Metab.
    281:E197–E206. 2001.
    75. VANHELDER, W.P., M.W. RADOMSKI, R.C. GOODE, AND K. CASEY.
    Hormonal and metabolic response to three types of exercise
    of equal duration and external work output. Eur. J. Appl. Physiol.
    54:337–342. 1985.
    76. VINCENT, K.R., P.M. CLARKSON, P.S. FREEDSON, AND M. DECHEKE.
    Effect of pre-exercise liquid, high carbohydrate feeding
    on resistance exercise performance [Abstract]. Med. Sci. Sports
    Exerc. 25:S194. 1993.
    77. VOLEK, J. Enhancing exercise performance: Nutritional implications.
    In: Exercise and Sport Science. W.E. Garrett and D.T. Kirkendall,
    eds. Philadelphia: Lippincott Williams and Wilkins,
    2000.
    78. VOLLESTAD, N.K., I. TABATA, AND J.I. MEDBO. Glycogen breakdown
    in different human muscle fibre types during exhaustive
    exercise of short duration. Acta Physiol. Scand. 144:135–141.
    1992.
    79. WRIGHT, D.A., W.M. SHERMAN, AND A.R. DERNBACH. Carbohydrate
    feedings before, during, or in combination improve cycling
    endurance performance. J. Appl. Physiol. 71:1082–1088.
    1991.
    80. YASPELKIS, B.B.D., J.G. PATTERSON, P.A. ANDERLA, Z. DING,
    AND J.L. IVY. Carbohydrate supplementation spares muscle glycogen
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    Address correspondence to Dr. G. Gregory Haff,
    haffgg@appstate.edu.
    Last edited by Slim Schaedle; 03-25-2008 at 10:01 AM.

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    Fantastic Jeff!!!!!!

    Damn, I've gotta admit I never really knew pre-workout carbs were *that* important! I typically 'try' to make sure I'm going through a solid gatorade/whey shake maybe half an hour out, but it's never a very high dose of gatorade, and gatorade's not pure dextrose/malto anyways.


    I'm def gonna have to grab some malto and start tracking training responses!
    Go now, run along and tell your xerxes he faces free men here, not slaves

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdeity View Post
    Fantastic Jeff!!!!!!

    Damn, I've gotta admit I never really knew pre-workout carbs were *that* important! I typically 'try' to make sure I'm going through a solid gatorade/whey shake maybe half an hour out, but it's never a very high dose of gatorade, and gatorade's not pure dextrose/malto anyways.


    I'm def gonna have to grab some malto and start tracking training responses!
    Well, I certainly think it's an individualistic thing.

    Obviously, we see concrete physiological benefit and importance.

    Just like we know the importance and roles that adequate fats play, some people do better with low fat.


    One could certainly avoid eating several hours prior and pound the caffeine and any other powerful CNS stimulant and they could be on cloud 9 for their entire workout.


    If someone knows their body and realizes that they do well using fats for daily energy, and their body conserves glycogen well, then they might not take particular notice to a pre-wo carb supplement.

    I know for a fact (and have worked with others) that my body utilizes glycogen very efficiently throughout the day so the benefits are like a slap in the face.
    Last edited by Slim Schaedle; 03-25-2008 at 11:54 AM.

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    Would it be better to eat oatmeal or dextrose before working out?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Would it be better to eat oatmeal or dextrose before working out?
    In my opinion, it really depends on the timing.

    I wouldn't suggest a bunch of dextrose a few hours prior.

    And I wouldn't suggest oatmeal 15-30 minutes prior, although there wouldn't be any harm

    You could even do both depending on how you plan your meals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Schaedle View Post
    In my opinion, it really depends on the timing.

    I wouldn't suggest a bunch of dextrose a few hours prior.

    And I wouldn't suggest oatmeal 15-30 minutes prior, although there wouldn't be any harm

    You could even do both depending on how you plan your meals.
    This is exactly what I consider when I'm planning my pre-workout meal.

    For me, because my appetite outstrips my needs (which explains my former weight problem) I don't like to drink my calories - I prefer to chew them.

    I almost always eat one of my oatmeal/cottage cheese/egg white waffles as a pre-workout meal. Now the carb source IS oats, but ground so it digests fairly quickly, and the waffle is very low in fat so there's nothing but a little bit of fibre to slow down the carbs.

    If I have this half an hour before I train, I'll drizzle honey or put a bit of jam on it, maybe eat a half and apple with it or something.

    If I have it an hour before, I slow it down with a little peanut butter along with the honey, maybe eat a little cottage cheese along with the chunk of apple.

    See, it's just a logistics problem - making sure you have an available pool of amino acids along with glucose to stimulate insulin so you can take advantage of the preferential insulin sensitivity you'll have post-workout and shuttle nutrients into the newly-damaged tissue.

    It doesn't need to be a SPIKE - not unless you messed up and didn't get in your pre-workout carbs. In that case, the faster you get the insulin going, the faster you initiate repair to the microtrauma from your workout, so the old standby of "whey and dextrose" is indeed prudent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Built View Post
    This is exactly what I consider when I'm planning my pre-workout meal.

    For me, because my appetite outstrips my needs (which explains my former weight problem) I don't like to drink my calories - I prefer to chew them.

    I almost always eat one of my oatmeal/cottage cheese/egg white waffles as a pre-workout meal. Now the carb source IS oats, but ground so it digests fairly quickly, and the waffle is very low in fat so there's nothing but a little bit of fibre to slow down the carbs.

    If I have this half an hour before I train, I'll drizzle honey or put a bit of jam on it, maybe eat a half and apple with it or something.

    If I have it an hour before, I slow it down with a little peanut butter along with the honey, maybe eat a little cottage cheese along with the chunk of apple.

    See, it's just a logistics problem - making sure you have an available pool of amino acids along with glucose to stimulate insulin so you can take advantage of the preferential insulin sensitivity you'll have post-workout and shuttle nutrients into the newly-damaged tissue.

    It doesn't need to be a SPIKE - not unless you messed up and didn't get in your pre-workout carbs. In that case, the faster you get the insulin going, the faster you initiate repair to the microtrauma from your workout, so the old standby of "whey and dextrose" is indeed prudent.
    To be honest, it was your inital posts here on WBB that woke me up several years ago.

    When I started this it worked so well for me and others, I almost got stuck in the 1980's carb craze, lol.

    Not to mention, it was this very site that introduced me to dextrose and maltodextrin and EVERYONE was promoting it when I first joined.

    Since then I have really opened up my mind and examines different methods and tricks.

    Right now I leave plenty of room for my stims to do their job because I started to find that food (even straight dex) will impair their effect.....well, I should say the actual stimulatory effect your can literally feel.
    Last edited by Slim Schaedle; 03-25-2008 at 03:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Schaedle View Post
    Right now I leave plenty of room for my stims to do their job because I started to find that food (even straight dex) will impair their effect.....well, I should say the actual stimulatory effect your can literally feel.
    slim - could you explain that impairment? Could that simply be corrected by varying your stim's moa? For an extreme example, I guess I just don't see how a dex shake pre-w/o would have any effect on your, say, caffeine, if you just snorted the caffeine. Not that I'd wish the feeling of snorted caffeiene on my worst enemy, but you get the idea. Messing around with methods of admin for the stim should be able to negate that issue, no? (hell, just timing it differently could be great, caffeine has a half life of maybe 3 or 4hr iirc, so if you dropped, waited like 20-30m, then went for the dex, wouldn't that have no/negligible impact upon the caffeine?
    Go now, run along and tell your xerxes he faces free men here, not slaves

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    The Top 10 Post Workout Nutrition Myths
    by Dave Barr

    2. Pre workout Nutrition will divert blood flow away from muscles during the workout.

    One of a plethora of excuses made in an attempt to resist preworkout nutrition; this myth actually makes a lot of sense…until you become familiar with the physiology of hormones. Looking deeper, we can find that the insulin stimulated by food intake, actually enhances blood flow and subsequent nutrient delivery to muscles (Coggins et al., 2001).

    Applying this principle, liquid pre workout meal consumption dramatically increases muscle blood flow and protein synthesis (Tipton et al., 2001). This elevation in muscle growth is at least twice that observed with the same drink taken post workout (Tipton et al., 2001)! In fact, this effect even lasts for an hour after the workout, so it’s like having 2 drinks for the price of 1! If you want more detail on this topic check out the article on Arginine blood flow stimulators.

    Fortunately, early resistance to this research is falling by the wayside, and people are finally starting to reap the benefits that this practice has to offer. While "pre workout nutrition" just doesn’t sound as sexy as "post workout nutrition," actually doubling our muscle growth should seem pretty damn sexy to everyone!
    3. The post workout meal is the most important meal of the day.

    I have to admit that with all the hype on post-workout meals over the past few years, I got tangled up in this myth, too. Realistically though, as great as they are, a single post-workout meal will have minimal impact compared to what can happen if your nutrition is completely optimized. Of course it’s heresy to say that these days, but that’s a result of the myth building on itself more than any factual data. For example, as discussed in the myth #2, pre-workout meals can be 200% more effective for stimulating muscle growth compared to post-workout (Tipton et al., 2001).

    Perhaps even more important than the pre-workout meal is the old standard: breakfast. No this article isn’t part of a conspiracy by MABB (Mom’s Against Bad Breakfasts) to promote the importance of this meal. Just think about it: being essentially fasted for 8-10 hours is incredibly destructive for muscle -yes even if you eat cottage cheese before bed.

    This is especially true in trained individuals like us, because we have higher rates of muscle breakdown (Phillips et al. 2002) The faster we can stop this catabolism once we wake up, the better. In fact, one could even argue that the amount of muscle protein spared from this first meal would be equal to, or even greater, than that gained by a post workout meal.

    Also, consuming a high quality slow protein before bed, like Low-Carb Grow! with micellar casein, will largely mitigate the catabolic effect induced by nocturnal fasting. Taking this one step further, nighttime eating will actually put your muscle into anabolic overdrive, by supplying even more amino acids to stimulate this metabolic process.

    Finally, a second post workout meal can be even better for protein synthesis than the first, but I’ll get to that one in a bit.

    Mini-Summary: Nocturnal feedings, breakfast, preworkout meals, and multiple post workout meals can be more beneficial for muscle growth than a single post workout meal.

  18. #18
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    Slim, with all this research you could write your own paper! You definately have enough references to list. I'm saving this and reading it bit by bit, there's a lot of stuff to read here.
    "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education alone will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race." - John Calvin Coolidge

    9 months-20lb gains! (2005 Newbie gains)-A bit of motivation for beginners

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    Quote Originally Posted by WORLD View Post
    Slim, with all this research you could write your own paper! You definately have enough references to list. I'm saving this and reading it bit by bit, there's a lot of stuff to read here.
    Built wrote an article for this site that I contributed to and was quoted in, if you want to dig through her Iron Geek stuff.

    I did alot for various college courses too.

    I had begun taking immense pre and post shakes back in 2003 before actually starting school after the air force.

    It wasn't until getting into the nitty gritty biochemsitry stuff after I had started school that I began to look at what I was doing and realize the sense in it.

    So, sort of like reverse research, haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Schaedle View Post
    Built wrote an article for this site that I contributed to and was quoted in, if you want to dig through her Iron Geek stuff.
    heh, diggin's not fun

    http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=274
    Go now, run along and tell your xerxes he faces free men here, not slaves

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    From personal experience, I believe proper pre-workout nutrition can make a good training session an excellent one. Some of my best gains and workouts were when I had a solid meal 3-4 hours prior, a small protein/dextrose drink 30 minutes prior and then sipped on a diluted version during my training.

    Now, it is hard to separate the placebo type effect but once I stopped being aware of my pre-w/o nutrition and didn't sip on something throughout my sessions I noticed my lifts did suffer, especially towards the end. As I am sure someone might ask why I stopped it is because my gym kind of cracked down on their 'no gatorade/protein shakes' policy.

    I've been tempted to go to another gym when I am not dieting so I can sip on something. I suppose getting a non-clear water bottle would be the easier solution though
    Last edited by TopCat; 03-25-2008 at 04:15 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopCat View Post
    From personal experience, I believe proper pre-workout nutrition can make a good training session an excellent one. Some of my best gains and workouts were when I had a solid meal 3-4 hours prior, a small protein/dextrose drink 30 minutes prior and then sipped on a diluted version during my training.

    Now, it is hard to separate the placebo type effect but once I stopped being aware of my pre-w/o nutrition and didn't sip on something throughout my sessions I noticed my lifts did suffer, especially towards the end. As I am sure someone might ask why I stopped it is because my gym kind of cracked down on their 'no gatorade/protein shakes' policy.

    I've been tempted to go to another gym when I am not dieting so I can sip on something. I suppose getting a non-clear water bottle would be the easier solution though
    Dude, when you graduate, I am totally hittin you up for an intravenous glucose drip.

    Well, as long as you have your conversions down good. So, I am going to need to review your exams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TopCat View Post
    I suppose getting a non-clear water bottle would be the easier solution though
    Yeah, that's what I'm going to do. I've done that in the past, and no one has bothered me about it.

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    My first thought with the impairment was actually related to insulin resistance: ephedrine for example increases insulin resistance.

    Is this what you meant, Slim?

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