The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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Thread: routine...

  1. #1
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    routine...

    Im thinkin bout startin a routine but all the routines on wbb dont tickle my fancy (wbb 1, 1.1, 2 and 3). I simply dont wanna pair back and chest (rather pair up pushes and pulls). anybody know any other good routines that work (other than bill starrs 5x5)

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  3. #2
    Fear No Weight BPM Osgood's Avatar
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    My Best guess would be to pick up a BBing Mag/Book Bro, there are so many workout to pick from! Everyone is different. If anything start with a basic Workout and over time mix it up and see what works for you.

    Im not sure what the WBB workouts look like, but I wouldnt think that training Back and chest together would be a good idea... two major muscle groups...? But like I said i havent seen the workout.
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  4. #3
    For the ALLIANCE Commute's Avatar
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    I read FLEX while I commute home the hour+ on my train and they post some good workouts in there. Some of it is realistic and others are reachign, but you can figure things out. The best thing the magazine is for is sometimes I run across a movement I hadn't thought of... keeps things different.
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  5. #4
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    What if i were to make up my own routine? is this a big no or is it reasonable?

  6. #5
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    Here's an attempt.. Reps/sets are undetermined as of yet.

    DAY 1 : Chest and Triís

    Flat Barbell Bench
    Incline Dumbell press
    Decline Bench Press (smith machine)
    Flies

    French press
    Tricep pushdowns (ponytail)
    Dips

    DAY 2 : Back and Biís

    Deadlifts
    T-bar rows
    Dumbell rows
    Lat Pull Downs

    Preacher Curls
    Hammer Curls (db)
    Cable Curls

    DAY 3 : Legs and Shoulders (split up??)

    Squats
    Leg Press
    Leg Curls
    Leg Extensions
    Calves??

    Shoulder Press
    Shoulder Shrugs
    Upright Row

    A day of rest in between each workout day and 2 days between day 3 and 1 (likely the weekend) = weekly

  7. #6
    Senior Member kique's Avatar
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    theres absolutely nothing wrong with pairing chest and back, thats how most upper lower splits are devised

  8. #7
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    I know that I just work especially hard on both of them and would rather split them up. how about my routine?

  9. #8
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Please don't use bodybuilding magazines for anything other than looking at pictures.

    I'm assuming the OP is a beginner. If that's the case, you need to start out with a very basic routine. Something like what Rippetoe suggests in Starting Strength, or something like the first routine in KTP. Search and you can find examples of both.

    They are basic routines, full body, 3x a week, with a focus on adding weight to the squat.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
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  10. #9
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    im not a begginer... i probly been pumpin for a few years now. i weigh 165 and bench 225, squat 265, dead 295. i just want someone with more experience to check over my routine..

  11. #10
    Senior Member Jorge Sanchez's Avatar
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    Why are you so averse to Starr's 5x5?

  12. #11
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corey170 View Post
    im not a begginer... i probly been pumpin for a few years now. i weigh 165 and bench 225, squat 265, dead 295. i just want someone with more experience to check over my routine..
    If that's what you weigh, and that's what you lift, unless you are a 100 pound girl, you are a beginner. You need to build a solid base with a solid, basic routine.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  13. #12
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    whatever buddy. i dont care about all that i just want some comments on my routine.. good or bad? improvements?

  14. #13
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    Okay, here's my take:

    DAY 1 : Chest and Triís

    Flat Barbell Bench
    Incline Dumbell press
    Decline Bench Press
    (smith machine)** ditch this one, French press covers it
    Flies**superfluous/waste of time. Ditch these

    French press**is this the same as close grips? (say yes... )
    Tricep pushdowns (ponytail)**don't bother
    Dips **maybe do these before the close grips, and do 'em weighted

    Comments:
    I'm not sure what rep ranges or number of sets you're planning with these, but there are way too many movements going on here, IMO. Torching tris with chest and then not working tris again until next week might be overkill followed by too much recovery, just my opinion.

    DAY 2 : Back and Biís

    Deadlifts
    T-bar rows
    Dumbell rows
    Lat Pull Downs**do weighted chins instead of lat pulldowns
    **these are all excellent movements, but a lot of back work all on one day
    Preacher Curls
    Hammer Curls (db)
    Cable Curls
    **so much direct bicep work after heavy pulling - just doesn't make sense to me for such a small muscle group.

    DAY 3 : Legs and Shoulders (split up??)

    Squats**good
    Leg Press**less good
    Leg Curls**useless. You need a mass builder for hams. Curls won't do it. Try RDLs, GMs, split squats, GHRs...
    Leg Extensions**no
    Calves??**how are your calves? Big? If not, you might want to do them on a non-leg day so they're not an "also ran" after you destroy your legs

    Shoulder Press**Good, if you mean free-weight military press. Bad if you mean machine shoulder press.
    Shoulder Shrugs**try cleans instead
    Upright Row**not a friend to the rotator cuff. Try Arnies.

    Comments

    I really hate your set up, but I've honestly seen worse. I don't like that you have "rape your legs" as one day, I don't like that you have too much volume on tris and bis after they've already worked hard in the compounds, and I don't like what I suspect may be too much volume.

    If you really don't want to work back and chest together, how about back and tris, and chest and bis? You could do a calves and abs on the upper body days, some hamstring work with back (deadlifts are great, do some of them as RDLs perhaps?), and perhaps heavy quad work with a cleans and perhaps something like corner oly bar presses or arnies. Maybe finish that workout with walking lunges or split squats.

    Or use a pre-made split and be done with it.

    My .02

  15. #14
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corey170 View Post
    whatever buddy. i dont care about all that i just want some comments on my routine.. good or bad? improvements?
    Paul gave you dead on comments about a routine and what you should be doing. If you do any type of reading around here you would know he knows his stuff. He is not trying to insult you, just trying to point you in the right direction. DO NOT EVER take a routine from FLEX magazine, unless you read the articles about either Doggcrapp training or Westside. Then, you can't go solely off what you read in there, you gotta do a lot more research. And those routines aren't for a beginner anyway. Someone who knows a bit about lifting could take the principles of a FLEX routine and probably tweak it to something good, but don't do anything straight out of there unless you want frustration. This comes from someone who has subscribed to the magazine(I know, I know guys) for sometime.

    *Reason for subscription. It would seem each month when I was at the grocery store and I would check it out, there would be a feature on someone or contest coverage which I wanted to read. I wasn't just going to stand in the store and read it. And, a subscription saves more than half than if you buy it at cover price. I guess I consider it my guilty pleasure. I come here for real weightlifting/training/diet information.*


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  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Built View Post
    Comments

    I really hate your set up, but I've honestly seen worse. I don't like that you have "rape your legs" as one day, I don't like that you have too much volume on tris and bis after they've already worked hard in the compounds, and I don't like what I suspect may be too much volume.

    If you really don't want to work back and chest together, how about back and tris, and chest and bis? You could do a calves and abs on the upper body days, some hamstring work with back (deadlifts are great, do some of them as RDLs perhaps?), and perhaps heavy quad work with a cleans and perhaps something like corner oly bar presses or arnies. Maybe finish that workout with walking lunges or split squats.

    Or use a pre-made split and be done with it.

    My .02
    [/COLOR][/COLOR]
    OK, so you think theres too much exercises in there? I could chop it down. The problem is that my arms are really small compared to chest/back, so i want to work them pretty hard. everyone that i have talked to says its a good idea to pair chest and tris, back and bi's and also to have one day of the week for legs.
    Ill refine it and repost.

  17. #16
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    You must be talking to all the people who don't do much reading. I understand, you want to get some size going. That's why I'm suggesting you work tris apart from shoulders and bis apart from back - that way you'll hit them more frequently, when they're a little more fresh, and not just rape them once a week.

  18. #17
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    lol i love your use of the word "rape". maybe pair up bi's and tri's in one day. or pair it up with some legs. split legs into two days you say?

  19. #18
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    If you want to get big as fast as possible, the routine Built suggested isn't optimal.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  20. #19
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Stagg View Post
    If you want to get big as fast as possible, the routine Built suggested isn't optimal.
    Of course it isn't. I'm a GURL - I just want everyone to get TONED.

    Seriously, I don't think anyone here would think there is any one routine that is the One Optimal Plan for Greatness.

    Unless you do Paul? Don't hold out on us, man - a million skinny bitches await The Good News!

  21. #20
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    The One Optimal Plan for Greatness:

    Beginners start with a basic, beginner routine. As they progress, they will need more complicated programming, and should use it.

    Unfortunately, no one likes that, and it doesn't sell magazines.

    The routine you've suggested could be perfect for the OP someday, but not now. Now, you even stated you didn't like it,

    I really hate your set up, but I've honestly seen worse.
    so I'm not sure you would be suprised that I agree. I also think I understand the why.

    I'm being that voice that, frankly, doesn't give a **** if this ******* ever lifts again, or if he'll read my advice and choose to take up mall walking. You have a gift of patience and diplomacy to suggest a non optimal routine because it's better than what he was using, and it's better than nothing. I've been doing this too long, I guess, but I lost that ability.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  22. #21
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    k well i obviously can't create my own routine so is there any pre-made routines that you guys can suggest?

  23. #22
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    I have a basic full body routine in my blog, or you can start with WBB1. There are other options as well, I'm sure someone will pipe in with a suggestion or two for you.

  24. #23
    Senior Member OGROK's Avatar
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    Start with Rippetoe's Starting Strength and then move on to Madcow's Intermediate 5x5 and then Advanced 5x5. The problem with most bodybuilding routines is that they use supercompensation theory, low-medium intensity and lots of volume, which is probably not the best way to train if you aren't on roids.
    Last edited by OGROK; 03-16-2008 at 04:09 PM.

  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Stagg View Post
    You need to use a much more basic routine.

    Here's an example

    Monday:
    Squat 3x5
    Bench 3x5
    Deadlift 1x5
    Chin 3xas many as possible

    Wednesday:
    Squat 3x5
    OH Press 3x5
    Row 3x5

    Friday:
    Repeat monday

    Monday:
    Repeat Wednesday

    and so on.

    Add a little weight to each one each workout.
    quoted from a thread I made on starting lifting

  26. #25
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    Corey with lifts like that you are a beginner... There are people squatting 900, benching 700, deadlifting 800... we are all beginners to an extent, and you and I are one of them.

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