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Thread: My diet...critique

  1. #1
    Gaglione Strength Chris Rodgers's Avatar
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    I went away this past weekend to go snowboarding and I f'd up my diet. Now I'm sick (my throat hurts like hell, got a fever, etc., etc.). Hopefully once Monday rolls around I'll be back with a vengeance! This is what my diet will look like. Feel free to pick it apart. Oh yeah, as I've said before, I want to add size w/out getting too fat(don't we all). Here we go:

    Preworkout- One capsule of AST DX, water

    Post workout- 50 grams simple carb drink, 1 banana, 10 gm. glutamine, 2 grams vit.c, 400 iu vit e, 24 gm whey, water

    Meal 1- 7 egg white, 1 whole egg, 1 1/2 sev. oatmeal, peanuts, multi vit/min, water

    Meal 2- 7 oz chicken breast, 1 baked potato, carrots, paenuts, water

    Meal 3- same as meal 2

    Meal 4- same as meal 2

    Meal 5- same as meal 1

    Meal 6- 10-12 oz steak, salad, water

    I'll be training on M,W,F, so the pre/post meals will only be on those days. Any thoughts?
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  2. #2
    Soon to be lean... Joe Black's Avatar
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    I like it, it is actually quite simular to mine...

    I knwo steak ahs a lot of fat in it, so if you are trying to remain slim it may not be good to eat steak everyday..

    Perhaps everyo ther rotated with another clean meat source or replace totally with another lean meat source..

    Looks good to me

  3. #3
    Expert Advisor MissAbs's Avatar
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    Looks good to me. I question how many calories you are eating now, and how much of an increase this is. If it is more than a 20% bump in calories, you may want to bring the calories down for a few weeks, until you have your metabolism ready to use this many. Just a thought.

    I do not think you need this many grams of simple sugars post work out. You are creating a spike, and then not putting much in terms of nutrients in to utalize the spike. I would up the protein at your post work out, or have another meal about 1 hour later, with 50 % of that meals protein coming from whey. Keep the 24 grams
    Also the banana is more than enough sugars without the simple carb drink. Why set yourself up for a fat disaster if you do not have to/

    You might look at a better carb source than 6 potatoes a day, not to mention heard the price of them is going to go through the roof. I would alternate the potatoes with brown rice, or oats.

    Switch the carrots to a green food, more fiber and better anti oxident properties.

    I would also put once or twice per week some salmon in there so you are getting your omega fats. Or toss back a tablespoon of flax a few times per week.

    Do not worry about the fat in the steak, that is better for you, the steak, than other food. Keep it in.

    Hope this gives you some thoughts...
    MissAbs
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  4. #4
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    I would add something different instead of all that chicken. I'd be puking my guts out. Maybe a burger on 12 grain or wheat bread....some fish with brown rice, etc....keep it interesting.
    BTW, it's good to see that you're not afraid of red meat. The difference will be clear in your phisique.

  5. #5
    Porn Star YatesNightBlade's Avatar
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    love the signature beercan !!
    * * * * * * * * *
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  6. #6
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    I think you are consuming too much protein. You do not need that much protein; 6 chicken breasts, 1 10-12 oz. steak, 15 egg whites and whatever is in the supps, peanuts and whatever I may be missing. That is a huge amount of protein. If that amount of calories is making you get bigger and not fat, you must be pretty big already. I would suggest you cut back on some of the protein and substitute with carbs. Potatoes are very good, but for variety you could add some rice as Miss. Abs suggested. For a more accurate assesment I think you should give us your stats. You should also shoot for a little more variety in your diet. Eat some fish instead of chicken a couple days per week, different carbs, and mix in some more vegetables. You can eat a quite a bit of vegetables without adding a lot of kcals. The massive consumption of protein is a big myth in bodybuilding. Carbs are protein sparing, so if you eat more carbs you will need less protein. In addition, the fat in meats is saturated which is less healthy. Eating a higher percentage of carbs will not make you fat either. That is another big myth. You will add fat if your calorie intake exceeds the amount you burn regardless of the makeup of the kcals. Carbs provide glucose which your body stores as glycogen. Glycogen is one of the primary sources of ATP during weightlifting bouts. ATP is the only fuel for muscular contraction. If you glycogen stores are reduced, your workouts will suffer.

  7. #7
    Expert Advisor MissAbs's Avatar
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    Chris,
    How do you explain the hormonal shift that is created in the body when carbs are eaten in excess?

    How do you determine that eating to many carbs are a myth? If so, why is America so fat? It is certainly not because they are eating low fat.... thank you snackwells...

    I do agree that eating to many calories over your current needs will make you fat, however I believe from experiance that when people get a better understand of the reaction that food has with the hormonal structure and make up of a human we all will have more ease in getting the bodies we want.

    Looking forward to hearing your answer.

    (this is an opinion of the writer,only- based on experiance, knowledge and education and a ton of street savy)
    MissAbs
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  8. #8
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    LOL at Beercans chicken remark...I feel that way about Tuna. Used to love it, but Ive had to choke my way through the last two cans..thought I was going to throw up. Gimme the beef!
    I am the master of my fate
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  9. #9
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    I actually just got finished reading a letter by Mark A. Jenkins M.D. In his article he stated that a diet high in complex carbs and fiber actually keeps insulin levels down. Since insulin promotes glucose uptake into muscle (good) and fat cells (bad) this is a good idea (you need it in your muscles, but don't want too much in fat). Now, you may be saying that carb intake stimultes insulin so high carb intake would create high insulin levels. This makes sense, but in fact is incorrect. This is because cell sensitivity is the key. Exercise combined with a diet high in complex carbs and fiber increases receptor sensitivity and therefore reduces hyperinsulinemia (excessive insulin production). So, reduced carb intake will have the opposite effect. In addition, reduced carb intake has a deleterious effect on training and will make you grumpy because the brain can only use glucose as fuel (yes you can break down protein for glucose, but you will still be grumpy). As a final footnote, the majority of the carbs needs to be complex and not simple. Simple carbs do not have the same effect. If this seems strange, consider the Tarahumara Indians of Mwexico which are known for their extraordinary endurance and have little or no obesity and very little cardiovascular disease. Their diet is extremely high in complex carbs (75%) and high in fiber.

    [Edited by chris mason on 01-18-2001 at 11:19 AM]

  10. #10
    Senior Member Anthony's Avatar
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    KISS
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  11. #11
    Expert Advisor MissAbs's Avatar
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    I actually just got finished reading a letter by Mark A. Jenkins M.D. In his article he stated that a diet high in complex carbs and fiber actually keeps insulin levels down.

    Yes- down compared to eating a diet high in simple carbs. However one article does not make a theory myth.By eating a diet high in fiber, you actually reduce the amount of "active carbs", thus keeping the insulin levels naturally in check.
    +++++++++++++++


    Since insulin promotes glucose uptake into muscle (good) and fat cells (bad) this is a good idea (you need it in your muscles, but don't want too much in fat).

    Exactly, that is why all diets needs some form of carb loading to refill the muscle and livers...however it does not have to happen daily. Thus a successful carb load on most well structured diets.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


    Now, you may be saying that carb intake stimultes insulin so high carb intake would create high insulin levels. This makes sense, but in fact is incorrect. This is because cell sensitivity is the key.

    Exactly- an most people because of in correct dieting have created a negative hormonal situation in their bodies that have cause an over load of cell sensitivity, causing in some individuals even the slighest amount of carbs to be stored as body fat. Because they are not able to process the food (carbs) as the human body was intended them to be process. By lowering or elimanating carbs for short durations, it will increase the reception of future carbs into the body, without having a major fat store party.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


    Exercise combined with a diet high in complex carbs and fiber increases receptor sensitivity and therefore reduces hyperinsulinemia (excessive insulin production). So, reduced carb intake will have the opposite effect.

    Impossible if done with an effective carb load.
    ++++++++++++++++++



    In addition, reduced carb intake has a deleterious effect on training and will make you grumpy because the brain can only use glucose as fuel (yes you can break down protein for glucose, but you will still be grumpy).

    Not true, it is a mental perception that you are deprived thus feeling "crabby". Once the body has shifted from using pure sugar for fuel to using glucose from protein conversion and fat (ketones) you will not have any of these symptoms.
    Why do they in epeleptic children void their diet of all sugars and carbs and force their bodies to use fat for fuel, and with it comes in many cases complete sessation of all seizures and a reduction in medications? (will site referances if this needs to go on)
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++



    As a final footnote, the majority of the carbs needs to be complex and not simple. Simple carbs do not have the same effect.

    Thank you.
    ____________




    If this seems strange, consider the Tarahumara Indians of Mwexico which are known for their extraordinary endurance and have little or no obesity and very little cardiovascular disease. Their diet is extremely high in complex carbs (75%) and high in fiber.

    and no outside influence of processed foods.
    +++++++++++++++++++++

    On a final footnote:
    This is not an arguement between Chris and I, it just goes to show, that their are many different ways to look at food and fuel utalization in the body, based on your goals.
    Learn what is and works best for you and be able to understand why.


    Chris:
    Thanks for helping to keep my brain sharp, considering I have only had 3 grams of carbs so far today.


    OX
    Abs

    MissAbs
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  12. #12
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Anthony
    KISS


    I did KISS in my first post, but the Miss Abs questioned me and wanted a tehcnical answer about how diet (specifically carbs) can effect the endocrine system.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Anthony's Avatar
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    I know, and it's interesting to me to watch the debate, but for most it's overkill. It wasn't directed to anyone, just my opinion.
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  14. #14
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    only 3 grams of carbs so far Miss abs?

    Man, Ive had 20 and I feel like Im gonna fall on my face.

    Kudos to you ma'am!
    I am the master of my fate
    I am the captain of my soul

  15. #15
    Expert Advisor MissAbs's Avatar
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    My suggestion if you are feeling that way is to look at your fat intake and make sure you have had enough.

    you have to get fuel from some place... Carbs or fat. You cannot keep both low.

    MissAbs
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  16. #16
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    I actually just got finished reading a letter by Mark A. Jenkins M.D. In his article he stated that a diet high in complex carbs and fiber actually keeps insulin levels down.

    ** Did he specify which one does it? Fiber does for sure.

    Since insulin promotes glucose uptake into muscle (good) and fat cells (bad) this is a good idea (you need it in your muscles, but don't want too much in fat).

    ** Yep! There are stretegies you can employ that help use insulin to your advantage. (a high GI meal immediately after training is one)

    Now, you may be saying that carb intake stimultes insulin so high carb intake would create high insulin levels. This makes sense, but in fact is incorrect.

    ** Yep. The glycemic index of the food is going to be a good indicator of what will happen to your insulin levels. Sticking to moderate/low GI foods will keep your insulin levels steady. Also, your intake timing will be a factor... if you only eat protein and fat for most meals, then eat a pound of yams, then go back to eating just meat and fat, your insulin levels will jump all over the place... but if you spread the carb intake out, insulin levels should remain pretty constant.

    This is because cell sensitivity is the key.

    ** Very, very important factor - and it varies widely among individuals.

    Exercise combined with a diet high in complex carbs and fiber increases receptor sensitivity and therefore reduces hyperinsulinemia (excessive insulin production).

    ** Again, I ask, is it the fiber, the comples carbs, or a combination of the two.

    So, reduced carb intake will have the opposite effect.

    ** Not necessarily, unless you are aware of a study indicating this independant of this article. If A causes B, it is not necessarily true that the opposite of A causes the opposite of B.

    In addition, reduced carb intake has a deleterious effect on training and will make you grumpy because the brain can only use glucose as fuel (yes you can break down protein for glucose, but you will still be grumpy).

    ** Screws up training - you betcha. The brain effects are temporary, as it can use ketones for fuel as well. Once it is used to using them, the negative effects USUALLY subside.

    As a final footnote, the majority of the carbs needs to be complex and not simple. Simple carbs do not have the same effect.

    ** GI index is indeed an important tool

    If this seems strange, consider the Tarahumara Indians of Mwexico which are known for their extraordinary endurance and have little or no obesity and very little cardiovascular disease. Their diet is extremely high in complex carbs (75%) and high in fiber.

    ** One can not necessarily correclate the two without looking at all of the other factors - exercise, environment, genetics, culture, etc, etc... although I can't argue that the diet would play a role.

    ** Good posts, Chris.


  17. #17
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    Finally, someone can put some validity to what I've discovered on my own. When I told people that I was eating 300-350g of carbs each day while losing body fat, they thought I was crazy even when I described the carbs I was eating:

    -3 servings oatmeal(25g each - 75g total)
    -1/2 whole wheat bagel(30g each - 60g total)
    -2 slices whole grain bread(50g)
    -1 serving whole grain rice(30g)

    I would restrict any sugar intake to 7:30am, 12:30pm and post workout meals.

    -Breakfast 7:00am - yogurt with meal
    -Lunch 12:30pm - orange with meal
    -Post Workout - banana with meal

    I managed to get down to about 8% bf with this carb intake. I really think that keeping the intake STEADY and choosing the right time to eat the simple carbs is the key.

  18. #18
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    [
    THE UPPER CASE FONT IS ONLY FOR DIFFERENTIATION-NOT EMPHASIS


    Exactly- an most people because of in correct dieting have created a negative hormonal situation in their bodies that have cause an over load of cell sensitivity, causing in some individuals even the slighest amount of carbs to be stored as body fat. Because they are not able to process the food (carbs) as the human body was intended them to be process. By lowering or elimanating carbs for short durations, it will increase the reception of future carbs into the body, without having a major fat store party.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    IF YOU LOWER OR ELIMINATE CARBS THEN YOU WILL MAKE YOUR CELLS MORE RECEPTIVE, NOT LESS. THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT, INCREASED CARBS WILL DECREASE SENSITIVITY.

    Exercise combined with a diet high in complex carbs and fiber increases receptor sensitivity and therefore reduces hyperinsulinemia (excessive insulin production). So, reduced carb intake will have the opposite effect.

    Impossible if done with an effective carb load.

    CARB LOADING IS A PROCESS WHERE CARBS ARE 1ST REDUCED FOR A PERIOD AND THEN INCREASED DRAMATICALLY TO INDUCE EXCESSIVE GLYCOGEN DEPOSITING. YOU CANNOT DO THIS ALL THE TIME. I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. IF YOU TRAIN EVERY OTHER DAY THERE IS NO WAY TO CARB LOAD THAT OFTEN. EVEN IF YOU COULD, YOU WOULD THEN EFFECTIVELY BE EATING A HIGH CARB DIET----LARGE % CARBS EVERY OTHER DAY.
    ++++++++++++++++++



    Why do they in epeleptic children void their diet of all sugars and carbs and force their bodies to use fat for fuel, and with it comes in many cases complete sessation of all seizures and a reduction in medications? (will site referances if this needs to go on)
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++

    EPELEPTIC CHILDREN ARE NOT NORMAL HEALTHY PEOPLE. THE HUMAN BODY HAS INCREDIBLE COMPLEXITY. THIS TYPE OF DIET MAY WORK FOR THEM, BUT DISEASE OR ABNORMALITY CAN CHANGE THE RULES OF THE GAME. ADDITIONALLY, I DON'T SEE THE RELEVANCE OF YOUR STATEMENT. LOSING BODYFAT FOR A NORMAL HEALTHY PERSON HAS NO RELATION TO SEIZURES. THE FACT THAT THEY BURN FAT FOR ENERGY AND THIS REDUCES SEIZURES HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I SAID.

    As a final footnote, the majority of the carbs needs to be complex and not simple. Simple carbs do not have the same effect.

    Thank you.
    ____________




    If this seems strange, consider the Tarahumara Indians of Mwexico which are known for their extraordinary endurance and have little or no obesity and very little cardiovascular disease. Their diet is extremely high in complex carbs (75%) and high in fiber.

    and no outside influence of processed foods.

    THE PROCESSING OF FOODS DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE CARB/FIBER/FAT MIX OF THE DIET. YOU CAN PURCHASE PROCESSED FOODS THAT HAVE COMPLEX AND NOT SIMPLE CARBS AND ARE LOW IN FAT. AGAIN, I DON'T SEE THE RELEVANCE OF THE STATEMENT. THE POINT OF MINE WAS THAT THEY EAT A VERY HIGH CARB DIET AND HAVE NO BODYFAT PROBLEMS AND SPECTACULAR ENDURANCE.
    +++++++++++++++++++++

    On a final footnote:
    This is not an arguement between Chris and I, it just goes to show, that their are many different ways to look at food and fuel utalization in the body, based on your goals.
    Learn what is and works best for you and be able to understand why.

    MY ENTIRE POINT IS NOT TO DERIDE YOU, MERELY TO SHOW THAT A LOW CARB DIET IS NOT OPTIMAL. YOU WILL BE HEALTHIER AND HAPPIER ON A HIGH CARB DIET. MOST FOODS HIGH IN PROTEIN ARE HIGH IN FAT AS WELL AND THIS PROMOTES CARDIOVASCULAR PROBLEMS. EVERY NON-MAVERICK AUTHORITY AGREES THAT HIGH FAT OR HIGH PROTEIN OR ANY COMBO WITH LOW CARBS IS NOT OPTIMAL FOR FAT LOSS AND HEALTH. YOU ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR OPINION, AND I AM NOT SAYING THAT WHAT YOU RECOMMEND WILL NOT WORK, ONLY THAT IT IS NOT OPTIMAL.

    Chris:
    Thanks for helping to keep my brain sharp, considering I have only had 3 grams of carbs so far today.


    OX
    Abs

    [/B][/QUOTE]

  19. #19
    Gaglione Strength Chris Rodgers's Avatar
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    KISS sound good to me. Talk about an information overload. Thank you everyone, I'll try some of the suggestions from the first few posts. BTW, I don't like fish and the potatoes are very convenient to bring to work with me. What other veggies do you suggest because I'm not big on those?
    Best Meet Lifts(Raw w/wraps):
    @165- 435 SQ 270 BE 560 DL.....1255 total
    @181- 535 SQ 300 BE 570 DL.....1400 total
    Best Meet Lifts(Multi-ply):
    @148- 575 SQ 315 BE 515 DL.....1400 total
    @165- 680 SQ 380 BE 540 DL.....1555 total
    @181- 700 SQ 375 BE 535 DL.....1605 total
    Best Gym Lifts(Raw w/wraps)
    545 SQ 305 BE 585 DL

  20. #20
    King Nothing ericg's Avatar
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    I like this information overload....it is nice to see some theory backed up by scietific language. Way different than the other mmessage board!! Seems like this board is the All Star Group...hopefully it stays that way!!


    GIVE A PERSON A FISH AND HELP THEM FOR A DAY; TEACH THE PERSON TO FISH AND HELP THEM FOR LIFE



  21. #21
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    Chris im just wondering, what do you think a BETTER energy source is, carbs or fats, from your experience and view points? It seems to me from your post, you think carbs are a better energy source, but what are the real benefits of them on a everyday basis? Of course, it depends on your goals...Btu lets say someone wanted to get into contest shape, would you instruct them to eat carbs everyday or would you instruct them to cycle the two macrounits? im looking forward to your reply, Chris.

  22. #22
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Life4ever
    Chris im just wondering, what do you think a BETTER energy source is, carbs or fats, from your experience and view points? It seems to me from your post, you think carbs are a better energy source, but what are the real benefits of them on a everyday basis? Of course, it depends on your goals...Btu lets say someone wanted to get into contest shape, would you instruct them to eat carbs everyday or would you instruct them to cycle the two macrounits? im looking forward to your reply, Chris.

    My answer is in the above posts. I believe a higher carb diet is best. I would not suggest cycling.

  23. #23
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    Wow.

    Good thing I left my arguing hat at mm.com. I'll stick to reading them from now on. : )

    Remarkably, this post was pretty flame free... the future posts had BETTER STAY THAT WAY....I'm not playing mr nice guy to those who want to talk tough over the net...

  24. #24
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    My answer is in the above posts. I believe a higher carb diet is best. I would not suggest cycling. [/B][/QUOTE]

    That is your own opinon and you can't argue about that one..Carbs are tricky, everyone responds differently to them, there no right or wrong way to do things..Someoone could be eating 600 grams of carbs a day and stay ripped to the bone, am I going to tell him to stop doing sO? No, that would be dumb, but the only thing he woudl be lacking is a HEALTHY diet. Others cant eat so many carbs and stay ripped... but from my personal experience, I would say fat is a much better source for energy? Do you know what I use to fuel me during a workout? My bodyfat! This works for me and may work for others... this is a good thread guys and gals.

  25. #25
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Life4ever



    My answer is in the above posts. I believe a higher carb diet is best. I would not suggest cycling.
    That is your own opinon and you can't argue about that one..Carbs are tricky, everyone responds differently to them, there no right or wrong way to do things..Someoone could be eating 600 grams of carbs a day and stay ripped to the bone, am I going to tell him to stop doing sO? No, that would be dumb, but the only thing he woudl be lacking is a HEALTHY diet. Others cant eat so many carbs and stay ripped... but from my personal experience, I would say fat is a much better source for energy? Do you know what I use to fuel me during a workout? My bodyfat! This works for me and may work for others... this is a good thread guys and gals. [/B][/QUOTE]


    Actually, you only use bodyfat for energy during an aerobic workout. Workouts with weights (assuming you are trying to build muscle)use stored ATP, ADP = creatine phosphate, and muscle glycogen followed by blood-born glucose (in that order). Fat is only used during extended aerobic workouts. Here is a fact that few of you have probably heard. Resting muscles actually use fat as a preferred energy source. So, you are burning more fat resting than when training with heavy weights. Carbs really aren't that tricky, most people respond very similarly to them.

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