The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member
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    Do you get sore after working out ? ( big gainers only )

    For the guys that put on a lot of muscle and increased the weight they could lift over the course of a few months or a year I have a question - were you sore most of the time after your workouts during that mass gaining phase ?

    What about when you hit a plateau - were you still sore ?

    Also has anybody gained a lot of mass and muscle but _not_ been sore after workouts ?

    I'm trying to figure out if not being sore means you may not be gaining. There is some theory that suggests muscles get sore because they are expanding, eg sucking in water and nutrients and reinforcing. ( Note lactic acid was for a long time was thought to cause delayed soreness but this has been shown to be false recently. See wikipedia for details ).

    For VERY interesting article please search for

    "Delayed onset muscle soreness"

    in wikipedia ( I can't post link as I am new member ).

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  3. #2
    GFH Lones Green's Avatar
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    i'm sore after most workouts, sometimes i'm not though
    23 years old
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  4. #3
    Senior Member Klotz's Avatar
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    I'm usually sore. You reduce it with supplements, contrast showering, dynamic stretching, foam rollers, and stuff like that, but it's hard to make it totally go away. Eventually you learn to love it though.

  5. #4
    Squat Heavy, Squat Often Cards's Avatar
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    first to say it? wow. soreness is not an indicator or progress.
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  6. #5
    Ex-Twig. Future Freak. Rock Steady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cards View Post
    first to say it? wow. soreness is not an indicator or progress.
    I 100% agree, but as Built has often said, it does let you know you did something.
    My Journal & Before/After Bulk Pictures
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  7. #6
    Squat Heavy, Squat Often Cards's Avatar
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    Agreed but, trying to distinguish what that something is can be a bitch.
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  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Steady View Post
    I 100% agree, but as Built has often said, it does let you know you did something.
    I'm focusing on really at the times you gained were you sore. I remember when I was a kid and went from 145 8 times on on bench to 205 8 times on bench those were the days when I was sore. Now I don't really get sore and think I'm missing something.. I was under impression that my body had some how adapted but then came across a very interesting study, saying that soreness is your muscles adapting or regenerating. VERY interesting question would be for those of you that tried anabolic steroids after a period of plateau did you get sore when on steroids ?

    Study: ( DOMS means delayed onset muscle soreness ). Remodeling means I think that muscles are adapting. This study seems to claim that the soreness is caused by this so called remodeling - or not "caused" but there is evidence of it:

    # ^ Yu, J., Carlsson, L. & Thornell, L.E. (2004). Evidence for myofibril remodeling as opposed to myofibril damage in human muscles with DOMS: an ultrastructural and immunoelectron microscopic study. Histochemistry and Cell Biology, 121(3), p. 219-227. link

  9. #8
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    i never get sore day after dead lifts.... why????

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFM8241988 View Post
    i never get sore day after dead lifts.... why????
    I never got sore after lat pulldown and working lats. But did after bench. Funny thing is my bench went up quite a bit but my lat pull down never went up much at all !!!! WTF !

  11. #10
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    Wikipedia should never be used to support an argument.
    23 y/o, 170 lbs

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  12. #11
    Banned MPB's Avatar
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    My triceps, lats, and shoulders NEVER get sore. Yet they grow so much faster than any another muscle groups.

    Also, there was a time I decided to bench 2 times a week (did this for about 2 months). Now, my chest was NEVER sore at that period of time, which is weird because usually my chest gets sore ALL THE TIME. After that, they just started growing and growing and I got stretch marks around my shoulders/chest region, something I'd never expect to get.

    DOMS = NOT an indicator of growth

  13. #12
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    Never sore.

  14. #13
    Focused gymwild's Avatar
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    I am usually sore, especially after chest day.
    26 y/o, 6'3", 200
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  15. #14
    Robot Frankenstein themidnighter's Avatar
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    I'm with MightyPitbull. My traps and shoulders grow faster than anywhere else on my body, and yet they rarely get sore.

    Though, I've never had an instance of consistent DOMS without obtaining some sort of progress.

    So I'd hypothesize that while DOMS isn't always necessary for gains, the presence of DOMS is still directly tied to those gains. It's like in geometry -- a rectangle isn't always a square, but a square is always a rectangle. Gains don't always require DOMS, but DOMS always requires gains. This is an untested hypothesis based only on my experience. Any sciencey types want to test it?
    Last edited by themidnighter; 04-18-2008 at 01:38 PM. Reason: Broadened "hypertrophy" to "gains"
    Age: 24
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  16. #15
    Meow CleverName's Avatar
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    Also has anybody gained a lot of mass and muscle but _not_ been sore after workouts ?
    Since I've started I've made a lot of muscle gain, but have not been consistently sore after workouts.

  17. #16
    Robot Frankenstein themidnighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qjohnny2000 View Post
    I never got sore after lat pulldown and working lats. But did after bench. Funny thing is my bench went up quite a bit but my lat pull down never went up much at all !!!! WTF !
    This is probably more related to an improper Lat Pulldown form. This used to happen to me. Then I realized I was trying to pulldown too much weight. I adjusted my pulldown weight, and my lats became sore -- and I was able to increase weight on pulldowns after that, and my lats actually, finally started to grow.
    Age: 24
    H: 5'7" W: 170lbs

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by themidnighter View Post
    I'm with MightyPitbull. My traps and shoulders grow faster than anywhere else on my body, and yet they never get sore.

    Though, I've never had an instance of consistent DOMS without obtaining some sort of progress.

    So I'd hypothesize that while DOMS isn't always necessary for hypertrophy, the presence of DOMS is still directly tied to hypertrophy. It's like in geometry -- a square is always a rectangle, but a rectangle isn't always a square. DOMS always indicates hypertrophy, but hypertrophy doesn't always require DOMS. Anyone want to test that hypothesis? lol
    I would argue that you're by no means a particularly advanced trainee*, and hence just about any stimulus would induce growth.

    *no offense intended.

  19. #18
    Robot Frankenstein themidnighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kastro View Post
    I would argue that you're by no means a particularly advanced trainee*, and hence just about any stimulus would induce growth.

    *no offense intended.
    I'm sure a little offense was intended, otherwise you wouldn't have made that very unnecessary, purposefully incendiary comment.

    To back up my observations, I've gained 50lbs in less than 4 years without the help of drugs. And with a very small small stature (5'7", 105 4 years ago), that's an increase of almost 50% of my initial bodymass. I doubt that most can boast a 50% bodymass increase in less than 4 years. And while I may not be a competition-level bodybuilder/powerlifter, I'm pretty sure I know what stimulus my body does and does not respond to, and you should probably adjust your comments.

    Furthermore, one doesn't even need to show results to hypothesize on whether or not DOMS is directly tied to muscle growth. That's like saying a movie critic must be able to make a movie before being able to criticize one. It's two completely different fields. Do you think that the scientists researching this are all massive, advanced-level bodybuilders? I recognize this might be specious reasoning, as they are analyzing a larger pool of resources. BUT -- that's only in the actual testing of their hypotheses -- hypotheses that grew out of, generally, personal experience and curiosity. The point being that I'm just as qualified to FLOAT A SINGLE F***ING IDEA as anyone.

    No offense intended? Spare me.
    Last edited by themidnighter; 04-18-2008 at 01:00 PM.
    Age: 24
    H: 5'7" W: 170lbs

  20. #19
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    only the muscles of mine that constantly get sore seem to be huge
    and only if i get sore, week after week do i seem to get stronger.

  21. #20
    LittleJake JSully's Avatar
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    I'm 260lbs and I'm almost always sore the day after my workout.
    Jake Sullivan
    6' - 280lbs - 29yrs old - Professional Highland Games Athlete
    curently off-season
    HG training log = road to pro
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  22. #21
    Senior Member getfit's Avatar
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    legs hit me all the time, no matter what I do I'm sore for 2 days.
    You will soon see Getfit in OngII Flying Knee Thingys of Doom see if the feisty greek can survive the kicks of Steel Leg From Shaolin Soccer,Dim Mak(def touch) from ChungLee,and Flying Crane by Daniel-san-El Pietro

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  23. #22
    LittleJake JSully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by themidnighter View Post
    So I'd hypothesize that while DOMS isn't always necessary for hypertrophy, the presence of DOMS is still directly tied to hypertrophy. It's like in geometry -- a rectangle isn't always a square, but a square is always a rectangle. Hypertrophy doesn't always require DOMS, but DOMS always requires hypertrophy. This is an untested hypothesis based only on my experience. Any sciencey types want to test it?
    Powerlifts shun hypertrophy and train in the power/strength bracket, yet I know many PLs that get DOMS after every workout. I believe the definition of hypertrophy is to increase size. Most PLers aren't worried about size and the ones that are are trying not to gain weight.

    DOMS doesn't require hypertrophy.
    Jake Sullivan
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  24. #23
    Robot Frankenstein themidnighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleJake View Post
    Powerlifts shun hypertrophy and train in the power/strength bracket, yet I know many PLs that get DOMS after every workout. I believe the definition of hypertrophy is to increase size. Most PLers aren't worried about size and the ones that are are trying not to gain weight.

    DOMS doesn't require hypertrophy.
    Ah, cool. If you look at a lot of those PL-ers, though, they're pretty huge guys, generally.

    Maybe "gains" should replace hypertrophy? Because they're obviously making strength gains, if not size gains.

    Right?
    Age: 24
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  25. #24
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    From my understanding DOMS is still very much not well understood. I've gone from 135 to 230 in a little over 4 years, going from BB to PL to SM. Most of the doms i have experienced came from when i took extra long layoffs from liftring (2 weeks or more usually) or from just starting. That being said, i have RARELY gotten it form max attempts, which is the bulk of my lifting. I don't get it very often in the muscle groups I train regularly in that range, I do if i mix it up and rep out on pulls or something (since I don't rep out on those very often). All that being said, I don't think I get it any more or less than I used to given the type of training. I wouldn't make it a point to focus on weather or not you are sore but instead if you are making progress.

    And to say that PLers shun hypertrophy is not exactly accurate. While they generally have Max effort work may be the pinnacle point in the workout, accessory work is usually in the hypertrophy range and cannot be neglected entriely.

  26. #25
    Senior Member Jorge Sanchez's Avatar
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    After a short layoff which saw me lose 20lbs (largely LBM), I have increased my bench 80lbs, my squat 90lbs and my deadlift 100lbs and I've gained back about half of the weight (muscle) in three months. The only times I have ever been sore was the first couple weeks back when my body wasn't used to it.

    Now, if I were to go for a long run, which I don't often do, my legs would be sore for days.

    I don't see how you could reasonably assert that adding 100lbs to my deadlift is less effective at building strength and/or muscle than running.

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