The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #26
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thewicked View Post
    oh i'm loving this thread!



    got a video of a half ass 405 incline today for my ME upper body exercise!

    and big sam i'm with travis on this one...speed is everything in the bench.
    Nice incline. I added inclines into my rotation for my raw training cycle last year. I think it did wonders for my raw, but does nothing for my equipped lifting. Post up your vid. Here's my 545 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyBtqqGv0Gk

  2. #27
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Good grief Vin!!!

    Is there any upper body lift that you aren't amazing at?!


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  3. #28
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    Good grief Vin!!!

    Is there any upper body lift that you aren't amazing at?!

    Thank you Travis. That means a lot coming from you. I am squatting and deadlifting again. I hope to hit a full meet in the fall. We'll see what I got going on with the lower body now.

    Here's an 800lb trap bar dl I did at a strongman http://ironscene.com/view_video.php?...baf3c3ced66906
    Last edited by vdizenzo; 04-23-2008 at 07:24 PM.

  4. #29
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vdizenzo View Post
    I hope to hit a full meet in the fall. We'll see what I got going on with the lower body now.

    That would be awesome! I know it can be a pain, but it'd be really cool if you were able to post a log here. I know I'd love to watch you go to full meets and see how you work


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  5. #30
    Senior Member Big_Byrd52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    haha yeah I knew what you meant. Boards do work for raw strength. I used to get stuck at about a 4brd range with 515 raw so what I did was do 3brd for reps on my DE day.

    Paul will definatly convert you to speed work. I would rather miss a ME day than a DE day. Speed is the key to everything in the bench.

    The more you get in the shirt, you may need to dial back the military press and make your second chest day a little lighter and focus more on tri's. Really, if you're tucking your elbows right, your triceps are whats locking out the weight not your chest/pecs.

    You've definatly got enough raw strength to do very very well in the shirt, you just need to change how you apply the raw strength. After not getting in my shirt for probably 4months, its taken me awhile to translate that new raw strength over to my geared benching. I think you're on the right track getting in it every other week, I usually get in mine for two weeks in a row and then go back to raw. Actually my raw strength has really jumped since going back to the shirt which I found somewhat odd.

    What sorta stuff do you do for tricep strength?

    if you can, throw up some video of you benching in the shirt, I'd love to see it. Really though, Pauls advice will be more valuable because he'll be there in person. He and I train very much alike.

    You thinkin bout going 198 or 220 at the ProAm? Last I'd heard Shawn was going 220 but that was second hand

    Im goin in at a light 220. Ive talked to Shawn and neither one of us likes the way they have this set up. The middles are a super open class up to 220, but they cut off the sat lifting at 198 and 220s who are in that class, lift on sunday. they get to see whatever the 198s did already and know what they have to hit to beat them and can plan attempts better. And of course its by formula, so we will both be light 220ers. I might be around 210-215 depending on how much my weight jumps-- but as long as my strength keeps coming im not gonna fight it. My raw squat and DL are up about 70 pounds! bench is finally climbing again... but abs are almost gone


    here is a pic from this weekends NGBB CLassic Meet in Atlanta doing the classic bodybuilder thumbs-up pose haha

    Tricep strength... umm closegrips sometimes, my overhead work, dips and pressdowns. been considering boards, maybe bands... but thats as far as its gotten in 4 years! haha still not sold on bands...

    not doing near as much chest work, more shoulders tho. after the shirt work on fri i do some close grip boards for reps, then do supersets with db laterals, front raises, then standing strict presses, same 30lb DBs, nothing crazy, just to get a pump and to get everyone to give me **** about bodybuilding haha

    monday work is standing strict BB OH presses, no leg drive, stay tight and pause at bottom like for a comp bench for sets of 10-12, so not real heavy. its more like a bodybuilding day with lighter weights and higher reps for size and a pump. follow with maybe incline dbs then some modified flyes that blast my shoulders, maybe laterals and arms BB style.

    weds is sled dragging, upper back work, fri bench and arms, sunday squat/DL
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    Last edited by Big_Byrd52; 04-23-2008 at 08:46 PM.
    All Time 198 Squat Record of 1,050 pounds
    http://ironscene.com/view_video.php?...e=&category=tr

    All Time 220 Squat Record of 1,100 pounds

    ** 1063 squat , 611 bench, and 733 deadlift for 2408 Total
    All Time 242 Squat Record of 1,108 pounds At 228)
    ** 1108 squat , 639 bench, and 700 deadlift for 2447 Total

    What I Lack in Genetics, I Make Up For With Determination and Discipline

  6. #31
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    yeah I'm not sure why they did that on the cut offs for weight classes. Lou actually isn't the one running this meet, he's more coordinating it? I don't quite know haha. But I know thats why he had to check with the guy who's running it to see if we could to bench only on the Am day.

    It might make more sense to have the lights on one day, heavies on the other so everyone is on the same playing field. I s'pose though everyone is going to come into the meet knowing what they are capable of and is going to push the envelope. I wish Andy Bolton was comming, but he's pretty committed to the GPC right now

    As for your tricep work, talk to Paul, but I'd probably hit up some extensor work. Those are really integral for lockout strength. I keep harping lockouts and I haven't even asked you where you stall on the bench in the shirt? Where do you stall? If you never have trouble locking stuff out, I guess if it ain't broke don't fix it right?

    If you do, some JM presses, straight bar skull crushers, dumbbell rollbacks, along with your pressdowns and other work. When you do them, go for sets of 10-6 (maybe pyramid a little) I will add a little caution, when you start tricep extensor work, you absolutly must ease into it. Keep it light for awhile til you build up some quality base muscle and don't create some problems. I really took my time when building my extensors and now I never have elbow problems. Occasionally I'll have to ice them down after a workout, but normally no problems at all.
    On your back day, jack up the weight and lower the reps to like sets of 8 and 6. Hammer those rear delts man. Off the chest in the shirt mostly comes from upper back and rear delt. Stabilization comes from lats and lockout comes from triceps.

    Don't worry bout the abs. Think of it this way. Nobody is going to say at the meet "hey isn't that the guy with great abs who took third?"

    you'd probably rather hear them say "hey, there's that guy that squatted 1100lbs at 220 lbs. He's heyooge!"

    hahaha


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  7. #32
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    More and more I'm becomming a fan of training full range in the shirt. Boards are priceless for overloads and breaking in the shirt, but for those of us who aren't advanced enough to be comfortable every time off the chest, we need to go full range more often.

    I think this is a HUGE point which is being missed by so many lifters today and a big reason for bombing in meets. You simply cannot expect to not train regularly with a full ROM in your shirt prior to a meet and then be at your best full ROM on the day of the meet. Neural acclimation is a HUGE component of demonstrable strength. Even a 1" difference in ROM makes the movement very different to your CNS (hence why the conjugate method works so well).

    Anyone reading this, I don't care how strong you are, you should be doing full ROM work for at LEAST 4 weeks prior to a meet. The work should be done in the shirt you plan to use for the meet.


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  8. #33
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vdizenzo View Post
    Nice incline. I added inclines into my rotation for my raw training cycle last year. I think it did wonders for my raw, but does nothing for my equipped lifting. Post up your vid. Here's my 545 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyBtqqGv0Gk
    Lol, you suck!

    I will be happy to get over the 400 lbs mark (raw) on the incline.


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  9. #34
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    I think this is a HUGE point which is being missed by so many lifters today and a big reason for bombing in meets. You simply cannot expect to not train regularly with a full ROM in your shirt prior to a meet and then be at your best full ROM on the day of the meet. Neural acclimation is a HUGE component of demonstrable strength. Even a 1" difference in ROM makes the movement very different to your CNS (hence why the conjugate method works so well).

    Anyone reading this, I don't care how strong you are, you should be doing full ROM work for at LEAST 4 weeks prior to a meet. The work should be done in the shirt you plan to use for the meet.

    I completly agree. I was reminded last week when I went from a 1brd one set, to full rom the next at how big of a difference it was! Plus it takes the guess work out of it for figuring openers.

    I think weight gain and loss plays a little bit into the shirts as well. Everyone just assumes that on meet day their shirts need to be alot tighter. Works for some guys, not so well for others.

    Good post Chris!


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  10. #35
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    I think this is a HUGE point which is being missed by so many lifters today and a big reason for bombing in meets. You simply cannot expect to not train regularly with a full ROM in your shirt prior to a meet and then be at your best full ROM on the day of the meet. Neural acclimation is a HUGE component of demonstrable strength. Even a 1" difference in ROM makes the movement very different to your CNS (hence why the conjugate method works so well).

    Anyone reading this, I don't care how strong you are, you should be doing full ROM work for at LEAST 4 weeks prior to a meet. The work should be done in the shirt you plan to use for the meet.
    I have been saying this for a long time. However, I am also learning to work the new poly shirts you have to break them in with boards. I do have to say I am slightly annoyed by this. I really like throwing on a shirt and just working full rom. It's just not the case anymore. You have to become a technician. Mind you, this is not gear bashing. I just happen to be an old dog having a hard time learning new tricks.

  11. #36
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vdizenzo View Post
    I have been saying this for a long time. However, I am also learning to work the new poly shirts you have to break them in with boards. I do have to say I am slightly annoyed by this. I really like throwing on a shirt and just working full rom. It's just not the case anymore. You have to become a technician. Mind you, this is not gear bashing. I just happen to be an old dog having a hard time learning new tricks.

    Yep, I am assuming one has broken in one's shirt.


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  12. #37
    Senior Member Big_Byrd52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    yeah I'm not sure why they did that on the cut offs for weight classes. Lou actually isn't the one running this meet, he's more coordinating it? I don't quite know haha. But I know thats why he had to check with the guy who's running it to see if we could to bench only on the Am day.

    It might make more sense to have the lights on one day, heavies on the other so everyone is on the same playing field. I s'pose though everyone is going to come into the meet knowing what they are capable of and is going to push the envelope. I wish Andy Bolton was comming, but he's pretty committed to the GPC right now

    As for your tricep work, talk to Paul, but I'd probably hit up some extensor work. Those are really integral for lockout strength. I keep harping lockouts and I haven't even asked you where you stall on the bench in the shirt? Where do you stall? If you never have trouble locking stuff out, I guess if it ain't broke don't fix it right?

    If you do, some JM presses, straight bar skull crushers, dumbbell rollbacks, along with your pressdowns and other work. When you do them, go for sets of 10-6 (maybe pyramid a little) I will add a little caution, when you start tricep extensor work, you absolutly must ease into it. Keep it light for awhile til you build up some quality base muscle and don't create some problems. I really took my time when building my extensors and now I never have elbow problems. Occasionally I'll have to ice them down after a workout, but normally no problems at all.
    On your back day, jack up the weight and lower the reps to like sets of 8 and 6. Hammer those rear delts man. Off the chest in the shirt mostly comes from upper back and rear delt. Stabilization comes from lats and lockout comes from triceps.

    Don't worry bout the abs. Think of it this way. Nobody is going to say at the meet "hey isn't that the guy with great abs who took third?"

    you'd probably rather hear them say "hey, there's that guy that squatted 1100lbs at 220 lbs. He's heyooge!"

    hahaha
    Well Travis, actually, i just dont think the rules need to apply to me! haha I want to hear them say "Damn, that guy just squatted 1200 AND is shredded!" haha Plus its a much better reaction when a girl asks u to flex and i just lift up my shirt to show off that 8 pack.... instant wet panties! haha

    oh well, i can buy plenty of fat burners with my 10,000 grand this year!

    The thing with the weigh-ins is that me and shawn will be really close again... provided i dont bomb and hand it over to him again... so if he came in at 198, or i did, then the other could just weigh in at 199, see what they finish up at, and be able to make smarter jumps in attempts cause u know exactly what u need to win. no need to take a risk.


    i cant do any extensor work like skull crushers right now cause i have strained something in my elbow cramming up under the quat bar. hurts to get under bar and do anything with that skullcrusher motion. i think its my ulnar collateral ligament or something? i dont know-- buts its not fun. its like drilling my funny bone everytime i try.

    as for stalling in a shirt, i think its the last inch or 2. i used to throw it back over my face but paul fixed that for me by having me flare sooner. But i really havent spent enough time in shirt to know. I know that raw i fail the last few inches, usually on my right side only
    All Time 198 Squat Record of 1,050 pounds
    http://ironscene.com/view_video.php?...e=&category=tr

    All Time 220 Squat Record of 1,100 pounds

    ** 1063 squat , 611 bench, and 733 deadlift for 2408 Total
    All Time 242 Squat Record of 1,108 pounds At 228)
    ** 1108 squat , 639 bench, and 700 deadlift for 2447 Total

    What I Lack in Genetics, I Make Up For With Determination and Discipline

  13. #38
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    What happens Vin is too many of the fibers get broken and you lose alot of the rebound out of the shirt, or what can happen is the shirt will blow, because it hasn't been gradually stretched. Even the single ply shirts are like that now


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  14. #39
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
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    I really did not know that shirts need to be broken in nowadays. I have about 8 weeks until my competition which puts me in the shirt six times. Hopefully this will be a good learning experience on how to break in a shirt.

  15. #40
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Just work it down with the boards, like you said boards are good for two things, breakin in a shirt and lockout strength.

    What Id do is start with a 4 and 3 board the first week. The next week go 3 and 2 board. Week after that I'd go 2brd and 1brd or just stay at 2brd, your choice on how you feel the shirt is going. 4th week definatly go 1brd and 5th week touch.

    Don't be afraid to get out the spray bottle and wet down the shirt a little before you touch.

    haha I learned the hard way shirts have to be broken in. POP! *smoosh* haha. Good thing for spotters eh?

    My 2 cents when doing the 3 and 4brds, dont' be afraid to do a couple sets of doubles. Taking it to your absolut max single will more than likely put you close to 1000 or over and thats not really necessary. Just take it light and work in the shirt. When you get down to the 2brds, start searching for the max single.

    When I go to the chest the first time I like to go pretty close to as heavy as I can because that way I have a really good idea of where I'm at. After that I don't need to go quite as heavy and can work on technique and speed.

    The first time I touched in my shirt this time I took a page from Paul Key's book and used a crap load of band tension. I really liked it


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  16. #41
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    So for raw, do you guys like putting boards on DE days, after speed work? And what kind of rep range are you guys talking? 3x3-5?

  17. #42
    Senior Member Big_Byrd52's Avatar
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    yea, we kinda highjacked this thread, sorry haha

    lets get a definate answer on that trav
    All Time 198 Squat Record of 1,050 pounds
    http://ironscene.com/view_video.php?...e=&category=tr

    All Time 220 Squat Record of 1,100 pounds

    ** 1063 squat , 611 bench, and 733 deadlift for 2408 Total
    All Time 242 Squat Record of 1,108 pounds At 228)
    ** 1108 squat , 639 bench, and 700 deadlift for 2447 Total

    What I Lack in Genetics, I Make Up For With Determination and Discipline

  18. #43
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbcb314 View Post
    So for raw, do you guys like putting boards on DE days, after speed work? And what kind of rep range are you guys talking? 3x3-5?
    I never did boards on DE day when training for raw. I always did them as a secondary exercise on my ME days. I really focused on multiple sets of barbell and dumbell extensions and JM's in the 3-6 rep range.

  19. #44
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbcb314 View Post
    So for raw, do you guys like putting boards on DE days, after speed work? And what kind of rep range are you guys talking? 3x3-5?
    I did when I was training solely raw, but I kept the rep range from 8-10 and would only do like 4brd or occasionally 3brd. I rotated it every other week.

    I dropped it after getting back in my shirt though. CNS just doesn't have enough time to recover


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  20. #45
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Byrd52 View Post
    yea, we kinda highjacked this thread, sorry haha
    probably my fault, I get pumped talking about benching both raw and shirted and I really like sharing different ideas and such so its easy for me to get off topic haha


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  21. #46
    THE FRIDGE! thewicked's Avatar
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    I like the 3brd idea..i've just now switched to 3brds for my tricep work after DE days since they're so light and close grip bench presses on ME days in hopes to develop more power in the press. The jm presses and barbell extensions don't seem to be working as well as they should. I have noticed an increase in strength when all i've been doing is heavy laterals for shoulder work isntead of push presses and saving all the pushing for the benching movements
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  22. #47
    THE FRIDGE! thewicked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    probably my fault, I get pumped talking about benching both raw and shirted and I really like sharing different ideas and such so its easy for me to get off topic haha
    oh no this is good ****... sharing of ideas is what this whole website idea is about.
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  23. #48
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thewicked View Post
    I like the 3brd idea..i've just now switched to 3brds for my tricep work after DE days since they're so light and close grip bench presses on ME days in hopes to develop more power in the press. The jm presses and barbell extensions don't seem to be working as well as they should. I have noticed an increase in strength when all i've been doing is heavy laterals for shoulder work isntead of push presses and saving all the pushing for the benching movements
    Floor presses are good too. Do you bench elbow out or really tucked?


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  24. #49
    Senior Member kingkong51's Avatar
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    well find out what u getting your strength gains from a go wit it but switch it up too
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  25. #50
    THE FRIDGE! thewicked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vdizenzo View Post
    Nice incline. I added inclines into my rotation for my raw training cycle last year. I think it did wonders for my raw, but does nothing for my equipped lifting. Post up your vid. Here's my 545 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyBtqqGv0Gk
    hahaha big vince that video was AWESOME! HAHA I LOVE YOUR REACTION! YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!
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