The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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Thread: How old

  1. #1
    Panther08
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    How old

    How old or how young do you recommend a young man start powerlifting and possibly taking protein supplements?

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  3. #2
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Powerlifting, as early as you want. Protein, eat meat! You don't need supplements.
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  4. #3
    Panther08
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    children

    How about an 11 year old?

  5. #4
    SFW! drew's Avatar
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    How prepared is he to begin training? Has he played sports? Is he athletic or sedentary?

    If he is athletic, you can start him with learning how to perform the lifts, and take him through the form. Have him squat with no weight for a while until he learns the form. Have him deadlift with just a bar (if he can handle it). Don't be too anxious to progress him too fast, just focus on the basics of technique and the rest will fall into place.

    Stats: Age: 34 Weight: 205 Height: 5'6"
    Gym PRs: Squat:635 Bench:560 Deadlift:495
    Meet PRs: Squat:575 Bench:525 Deadlift:510 Total: 1605@220

  6. #5
    SFW! drew's Avatar
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    And save supplements for much later. He is too young for that junk. Good food and lots of protein. A multi-vitamin should be the most supplementation any healthy 11 year old needs.

    Stats: Age: 34 Weight: 205 Height: 5'6"
    Gym PRs: Squat:635 Bench:560 Deadlift:495
    Meet PRs: Squat:575 Bench:525 Deadlift:510 Total: 1605@220

  7. #6
    THE FRIDGE! thewicked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panther08 View Post
    How old or how young do you recommend a young man start powerlifting and possibly taking protein supplements?
    18...and shoudl've started a long time ago. You've been taking protien all your life in all it's typical forms.. asupplement at whatever age won't hurt ya.


    as long as form and technique are taught first..there's nothing wrong wiht teaching a kid about powerlifting and lifting in general. Just like all the other sports out there..powerlifting is no less or no more dangerous under the right supervision.
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  8. #7
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    I agree its not going to hurt him, protein is just that, protein. Not a big deal but at 11 it's really not necessary so it'll boil down to personal preferance

    I'd just start him out on learning the movements with quite light weight and getting him used to the form. If he gets his technique down now, he'll be lightyears ahead of others when he hits 16


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  9. #8
    Banned
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    If he does begin to start taking in a larger amount of protein, make sure he is drinking plenty or fluids (preferrably water) to help the kidneys function properly.

  10. #9
    Big Swinging Dick dxiw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Moore View Post
    If he does begin to start taking in a larger amount of protein, make sure he is drinking plenty or fluids (preferrably water) to help the kidneys function properly.
    Absolutely agree. Also, take it easy with heavy work, I would lift solely in the 8-20 rep range until age 14 or so. I know there is a lot of debate over heavy lifting in young people, but I dicked around with heavy weights when I was 12 and I stopped growing in height that year completely (not even a 1/10 of an inch since then and I'm 20 now - luckily I was already 6'0 so not a big deal, but I was supposed to be 6'2-6'4). Probably genetics, but who knows..

    225lb @ 17% bodyfat, currently cutting
    Current lifts while cutting (all raw): bench 275x4, squat 365x8
    Estimated current maxes: 300 bench / 450 dead / 450 squat
    Competition / Gym PRs (from March 08)
    Bench: 325 raw / 385 loose shirt
    Deadlift: 450 raw ADFPF 04/26/08
    Squat: 405 raw

  11. #10
    Wannabebig Member
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    depends of what types of supps of course

  12. #11
    Take Two Ruffian's Avatar
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    There is no research saying that weightlifting before the onset (or during) of puberty is a health hazard, actually it is proven to be beneficial for muscle development later in life. That being said, there is proof that going to maximal and near maximal lifts prior to the age where your growth plates close (this is different in everyone) will hinder growth and development.

    In a word, weightlift, but lay off the powerlifting until your body stops developing. Practice technique! Lots of technique, with relatively light to moderate weights ... Trust me, when you are old enough the strength will not take long to follow. Your body will already have the foundation.
    Stats:
    Age: 22
    Height: 5' 5.5"
    Weight: 180 lbs
    Max lifts: Squat:320 lbs, Bench: 195 lbs, Deadlift: 290 lbs.
    Max Comp. Total: 805 lbs

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  13. #12
    IRL my name is Trent Hazerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruffian View Post
    There is no research saying that weightlifting before the onset (or during) of puberty is a health hazard, actually it is proven to be beneficial for muscle development later in life. That being said, there is proof that going to maximal and near maximal lifts prior to the age where your growth plates close (this is different in everyone) will hinder growth and development.
    I've always wondered excactly where people on these forms get these "studies" done by the infamouse "they." Whose performing them? Are they peer reviewed? Where does the average person find these studies? I ways under the impression that you had to pay to see most published reserach or academic journal databases.

    Thinking intuitively, I've heard claims that high active sports that recquire jumping, running, sprinting, hurdling, etc. put WAY more force on your growth plates than any amount of weight that an 11 year old will be throwing around. This is the same sort of running/jumping/sprinting that kids do all the time in soccer, wrestling, sprinting, track, etc, and don't get any sort of "growth stunts" at all.

    I mean, the biggest problem with all of these studies, or even anecdotal evidence, is that you have almost no CONTROL group. You have no one to compare it to. Not to quote anyone specifically, but the claim "I started lifting weights at this age and didn't grow anymore afterwards" just doesn't hold any water. You *could* have grown more afterwards or you could not have. The same holds true if you did a "study" with 10 people, 20 people, etc. Even if you do find a control group, your sample of 10 or 20 people may or may not be a good sample of humans as a whole, or there could be problems with your experiment in general.

    Anways, I guess what I'm saying is, until I see some of these studies and can give them a good look through, I don't buy it. I think the same sort of forces your bone plates are experiencing while lifting weights are comparable to the sort of forces kids experience playing regular sprots, or even better, working on a farm.

    Have your kid eat right, teach him proper form, and he'll be allright.
    Stats: 11/15/07-First-meet--2nd Meet----3rd meet
    Weight: 185-----187---------198---------198
    Max Bench: 255---220-----------280------300
    Max Squat: 405----395----------440------460
    Max Dead:475-----485----------551------570
    CHINUPS - Bodyweight + 135, x1, dead hang. Still working on the one arm chinup.

  14. #13
    Beginner nazmi's Avatar
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    11 years old? how tall are you, you need a height advantage you don't want to stay short.
    Age : 15
    starting weight : 130
    Current weight : 140
    High School Weight training Journal July16th - August 7th

  15. #14
    Wannabebig Member
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    mariusz pudzianowski has been lifting since the age of 13.5years old and i dont realy think its stopped him from growing or competing in OLYMPIC BOXING, WSM ECT.

  16. #15
    Take Two Ruffian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazerboy View Post
    I've always wondered excactly where people on these forms get these "studies" done by the infamouse "they." Whose performing them? Are they peer reviewed? Where does the average person find these studies? I ways under the impression that you had to pay to see most published reserach or academic journal databases.

    Thinking intuitively, I've heard claims that high active sports that recquire jumping, running, sprinting, hurdling, etc. put WAY more force on your growth plates than any amount of weight that an 11 year old will be throwing around. This is the same sort of running/jumping/sprinting that kids do all the time in soccer, wrestling, sprinting, track, etc, and don't get any sort of "growth stunts" at all.

    I mean, the biggest problem with all of these studies, or even anecdotal evidence, is that you have almost no CONTROL group. You have no one to compare it to. Not to quote anyone specifically, but the claim "I started lifting weights at this age and didn't grow anymore afterwards" just doesn't hold any water. You *could* have grown more afterwards or you could not have. The same holds true if you did a "study" with 10 people, 20 people, etc. Even if you do find a control group, your sample of 10 or 20 people may or may not be a good sample of humans as a whole, or there could be problems with your experiment in general.

    Anways, I guess what I'm saying is, until I see some of these studies and can give them a good look through, I don't buy it. I think the same sort of forces your bone plates are experiencing while lifting weights are comparable to the sort of forces kids experience playing regular sprots, or even better, working on a farm.

    Have your kid eat right, teach him proper form, and he'll be allright.
    Actually, the studies were something I researched for a paper in my growth and development class. It was also mentioned specifically (Ie. My textbook actually said that weightlifting can be beneficial as long as it is not maximal in children prior to the age of puberty) in my textbook.

    Sorry if you dont believe them but it is true, if you think about it the force is very different. When you are working on a farm very rarely will you be lifting something so heavy that you could get crushed beneath it and VERY rarely will that weight be on your shoulders or straight above your chest. Focusing on form and allowing the kid to build up weight slowly will be beneficial, but allowing them to max out at that young of an age is not a smart idea.

    I did not say NO weightlifting at 11 years old, I simply said no maximal or near maximal lifts..... If you think about it that makes sense, its like making a ten year old kid run a marathon..... Different use of the muscles - yes - but it has the same effect. The body of a child that young is developing in a way we dont fully understand, if there is even the slightest bit of evidence that lifting maximal lifts before puberty is dangerous - wouldnt you rather say that we may have saved this kid from stunted grown or serious problems later in his life instead of, we just encouraged a kid to go out, lift heavy and possibly injure himself.?

    To the OP, The IPF doesnt allow children to compete before the age of fourteen, I would say perhaps at that age it would be nearing a time that you can start to lift heavier.... but that is just my opinion!
    Stats:
    Age: 22
    Height: 5' 5.5"
    Weight: 180 lbs
    Max lifts: Squat:320 lbs, Bench: 195 lbs, Deadlift: 290 lbs.
    Max Comp. Total: 805 lbs

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    MY JOURNAL

  17. #16
    IRL my name is Trent Hazerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruffian View Post

    Sorry if you dont believe them but it is true, if you think about it the force is very different. When you are working on a farm very rarely will you be lifting something so heavy that you could get crushed beneath it and VERY rarely will that weight be on your shoulders or straight above your chest. Focusing on form and allowing the kid to build up weight slowly will be beneficial, but allowing them to max out at that young of an age is not a smart idea.
    I never said I didn't believe the studies, I just feel like there's a lot of study references with no actual citing (i.e. how many people actually read academic journals?) Secondly, I have worked on a farm, and I can tell you that you do lift some pretty heavy ****. I remember once we had to move all these huge boulders, upwards of a few hundred pounds, so that we could mow a certain area. We only had a few people, so we were probably carrying 150 or so lbs a person, over a big distance (we had to put them down a few times :-p). We could have easily been crushed had one of us slipped.


    I did not say NO weightlifting at 11 years old, I simply said no maximal or near maximal lifts..... If you think about it that makes sense, its like making a ten year old kid run a marathon..... Different use of the muscles - yes - but it has the same effect. The body of a child that young is developing in a way we dont fully understand, if there is even the slightest bit of evidence that lifting maximal lifts before puberty is dangerous - wouldnt you rather say that we may have saved this kid from stunted grown or serious problems later in his life instead of, we just encouraged a kid to go out, lift heavy and possibly injure himself.?
    As for the last part, I must not have read your post carefully enough. I suppose maxing out could be harmful, (as opposed to just lifting weights) and its probably better to be safe than sorry.

    However, I wouldn't say that its comparable to making a kid run a marathon-- That would be like having him squat 500 lbs. The weights, and in this case the distance, would be relative to the child's size and experience.

    Which isn't so big of a deal. Looking at it from this perspective, having a kid work relative to his size/experience is already done for plenty of other sports - soccer, football, baseball, tennis, wrestling etc.-- sports where the forces of hitting the pavement and again and again (running) or smashing into another opponent (football) or the mat (wrestling) seem comparable to weightlifting. In all of these sports, at least as far as I know, athletes have competed in around the world with no evidence of growth deficiencies.

    So yeah, its better to be safe than sorry, but wouldn't you rather just be right?

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