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Thread: Negative only training

  1. #26
    Senior Member Invain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drmarkp View Post
    My training is so brutal that it scares people. No one trains harder than I do.
    You train harder than everybody else by doing negatives only? Are you serious?

    I hope this isn't an actuall book because it's written very poorly.
    Best lifts: 615/475/660, Raw w/ Wraps
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songsangnim View Post
    ARRGHHH!!! (I just wrote a very long reply to this point, and my computer wouldn't let me post it).

    But here it is again in point form.

    You are contradicting yourself here. Either soreness and a pump are requirements of growth and therefore cause it or they aren't and don't. You claim that they are requirements. That means that without them growth won't occur. Yet you then say they don't cause it.

    I have put on 75 lbs since starting training. Yet in the overwhelming majority of my workouts I have experienced little to no soreness and not much "pump". Obviously if these were major requirements I should not have been able to do so.

    My hands get sore after deadlifting yet I don't have huge hands. If I ran 5 miles I would be sore and have a pump yet I would not grow. If I raked leaves all day I would be sore and have a pump yet I would not explode with new unbridled mass and muscularity.

    Muscles can't tell the difference between different kinds of soreness. That being said if your theory is correct, we wouldn't even need to lift weights.

    Say what?! Muscular soreness is absolutely a side effect of having properly stimulated muscle growth with high intensity training! While some areas may not experience as much soreness as others, with proper training, some degree of soreness should almost always ensue nonetheless.

    So yeah, muscular soreness is inadvertently a requirement of growth. Who said anything about muscles "knowing" anything? Muscles dont know the difference between a Hammer strength machine and a sack of s**t.

    And hey, wer'e not talking about raking leaves or a walk in the park my friend, wer'e talking about putting in some work. Proper training causes muscle growth stimulation while the pump and soreness are side effects and indicators of it. if neither one occurs then chances are that growth was not optimally stimulated in the first place.

    As far as a pump goes, we are not talking about the kind of pump you get with a useless flurry of Friday night pre-clubbin' arm pumps for the ladies, but a deep down to the bone, solid pump that tells you that youve had enough excercise.

    You've made progress; great! but even in horseshoes some misses count don't they? markp

  3. #28
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    Trying to be like you

    Quote Originally Posted by Invain View Post
    You train harder than everybody else by doing negatives only? Are you serious?

    I hope this isn't an actuall book because it's written very poorly.
    I'm sure you could do better, but since you have a little time on your hands maybe you could proof read it for me for your approval. Why dont you read a few more of my chapters. After you get through the agony of suffering through my poor delivery, you might learn something. drmarkp

  4. #29
    HomeYield WillKuenzel's Avatar
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    LOL, wow you sure are getting defensive. But I guess if I was just relying on poor information, little understanding of physiology and old information from Flex then I'd get a little bent out of shape to when faced with the fact that I'm not impressing anybody.

    You've proved nothing with your long posts. You're a doctor. Did you ever learn to cite your sources or did just copy and paste from your buddies to get through school?

    Who have you trained that has competed? Or, if you train so hard, how well have you done in competition? Lets see the proof of your hard work.
    What is elite?
    "Those who work the hardest often complain the least." -anonymous
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  5. #30
    Bulk me. MJay's Avatar
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    So yeah, muscular soreness is inadvertently a requirement of growth.
    Thats quite a strong statement.

  6. #31
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    Dr. Mark I am not sure what your intentions were posting this training philosophy on wannabebig. if you checked the site out at all before posting this you would know most members subscribed to the theory that training is most effective in its basic form. Heavy weights, compound exercises, high training frequency, no fluff. I am not close minded to other ideas and I actually follow training principles which are a bit "outside the box", but I tried to google you and found nothing. do you have any pictures of yourself or of your results training this way? do you have testimonials from trainees? how many people have you trained? do you have pictures of them, before and after? you've taken a beating from the members here, and I have to say deservedly so, but we can't totally discredit your methods if you can prove they are effective.


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  7. #32
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    when I tried to google this guy before I put spaces in his name. just spelled it as is. He is putting chapters of his book on many different boards. no responses anywhere have been too favorable.


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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by drmarkp View Post
    Say what?! Muscular soreness is absolutely a side effect of having properly stimulated muscle growth with high intensity training! While some areas may not experience as much soreness as others, with proper training, some degree of soreness should almost always ensue nonetheless.

    Oh soreness may be very well be a side effect. That's not what we are arguing about. In your previous post you claimed that it was an indicator of growth. I think we may have differing opinions though on what indicators mean.

    So yeah, muscular soreness is inadvertently a requirement of growth. Who said anything about muscles "knowing" anything? Muscles dont know the difference between a Hammer strength machine and a sack of s**t.

    Requirements and side effects are two separate things. Requirements are the cause. Side effects are (part of) the result.

    And hey, wer'e not talking about raking leaves or a walk in the park my friend, wer'e talking about putting in some work. Proper training causes muscle growth stimulation while the pump and soreness are side effects and indicators of it. if neither one occurs then chances are that growth was not optimally stimulated in the first place.

    But you have yet to prove that "pump" and soreness mean that growth was optimally stimulated. These occur AFTER training, not before. Eating, training and resting (done properly) allow for growth. Pump and soreness are caused by training (either done properly or not)

    As far as a pump goes, we are not talking about the kind of pump you get with a useless flurry of Friday night pre-clubbin' arm pumps for the ladies, but a deep down to the bone, solid pump that tells you that youve had enough excercise.

    You've made progress; great! but even in horseshoes some misses count don't they? markp
    True, but if I've pretty much reached my genetic potential without this "deep down to the bone, solid pump" and soreness (pretty much most of the time) then it proves that pump and soreness are not necessarily indicators of growth.

    And in fact I've done just that. At my heaviest I had to lose some weight because my skeletal structure just couldn't carry it (as I've stated in other posts before). I'd say that's pretty much an indication of maximal growth.

  9. #34
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    So yeah, muscular soreness is inadvertently a requirement of growth.
    No, you are inadvertently wrong! You are inadvertently stating that to grow you must have been/currently are experiencing delayed onset of muscular soreness (DOMS). Cardiac muscle grows the same way skeletal muscle grows and they never experience DOMS, smooth muscle although differ in genetic limitations yet have the same protein synthesis grow and they never experience DOMS. For sarcomeres to expand in girth relevance they do not have to "achieve a threshold" (as you say) of DOMS; therefore DOMS isn't, never has been or ever will be a prerequisite for hypertrophy!

  10. #35
    Senior Member OGROK's Avatar
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    Hey guys, it's me, Dr. Internet. Here is a sample passage from my new book:

    To grow a muscle you must stimulate the n-4 cortex with protocol 952019 type zeta-4 with a total magnitude of 8.333334. Uranium complex 7-b supplementation speeds this process considerably, triggering maximum skeletal pump on max effort biceps day (provided that you begin your workout at 7:02pm and end your workout no later than 8:24PM).
    Last edited by OGROK; 04-23-2008 at 11:03 PM.

  11. #36
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJay View Post
    Thats quite a strong statement.
    It's quite a wrong statement.

    I suggest the good doctor go hang out at getbig, where his posts will be heralded as the finest of broscience.
    Squats work better than supplements.
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