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  1. #1
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    Negative only training

    hi this is dr mark p. i have submitted chapter 10 of my book for your enjoyment. thank you.

    Chapter 10
    Negative only, variable resistance and the human control factors


    Since its inception, negative only training has been touted by certain bodybuilding authorities as possessing great value for gaining strength and size; and rightfully so. Nevertheless, this method never really caught on to enjoy the popularity of other less valuable bodybuilding techniques. Seemingly failing to live up to the results that it claimed it would; negative only training sailed into oblivion. Unfortunately, justice never prevailed for the negative only system of training, nor did it get its proper due. While some authorities were able to recognize its value, no one really succeeded in harnessing its proper applications.
    Negative only resistance uniquely contributes significantly to the enhancement of the intensity of exercise by imposing a workload on the muscles that is not possible to achieve with any other method of training. Negative only training is an extension from where standard positive/negative training leaves off; the new system taking it even further.
    The basic concept of negative only resistance is that muscles are able to accommodate greater resistance during the negative aspect of an exercise than they can for the positive one. Because negative only resistance enables a muscle to utilize more weight than it would be capable of otherwise, it’s dynamic forces it to work harder thus recruiting a greater number of available muscle fibers. This negatively enhanced overload causes the muscle to adapt with increases in strength and size.
    Unfortunately, there are drawbacks with the conventional system of negative only training. First, the original method required ponderous poundage’s (usually in the form of heavy barbells) that would have to first be lifted into position by a spotter (or two) before the trainee could proceed to perform the negative only aspect of an exercise. This scenario was as cumbersome as it was impractical.
    Second, due to the extremely heavy weights that were employed, adequate preparation of the muscles and their involved structures could not possibly occur by merely by going through a series of minor warm-up sets and then directly into a heavy set of negative only exercise. It is wishful thinking that a typical warm-up could possibly adequately prepare soft tissue components for the crushing poundage’s that would be associated with this style of training; the potential danger involved being the risk of injury.
    Third, this method would not allow for pre-conditioning of the muscles and their auxiliary structures. Unless a state of pre-conditioning is achieved, the involved structures will not be able to adequately affect the contractions necessary to optimally stimulate growth. Pre-conditioning is achieved by first performing a systematic series of intense multiple positive only sets prior to engaging in a set of negative only resistance exercise. This last point serving to reflect a running theme of this journal in that a single set of any exercise cannot sufficiently engage enough muscle fibers to adequately stimulate muscle growth, negative only or otherwise; multiple sets being a requirement for growth.
    Fourth, there is a lack of variable resistance as to adjust to the fluctuation of momentary strength levels (more on this later).
    The excessively heavy poundage’s that are imposed by the conventional method of negative only training renders the muscles, connective tissues and auxiliary structures beyond their ability to cope. Forcefully subjecting connective tissue structures to the undue stress of such excessive overloads renders the target muscles literally irresponsive thus literally repudiating growth. For all the involved tissues and structures to respond properly, they must be thoroughly prepared to do so.
    Negative only training is something that should not be jumped into hastily without proper preparation, and is of little or no value unless first integrated with sets of positive only resistance exercises. The conventional system of negative only training has traditionally been promoted as an entity unto itself, and nowhere was it ever proposed that it should be integrated synergistically with positive only exercises. Negative only training should not be performed exclusively, but adjunctively to conventional exercise. Giant sets provide the perfect “bridge” connecting positive and negative only exercise; their combined applications reciprocally enhancing the muscles responsiveness to both.
    With the new system, by the time you are ready to perform the set of negative only exercise, the target area will have been already fully prepared to take on the rigors of high intensity negative only training and able to derive the maximum benefits from it. The following is an example of what happens when negative only training is taken to the counterproductive extreme.
    Years ago my training partner and I attempted to do what we perceived to be the correct method for doing “negatives”. We constructed two large, square wooden platforms that were designed to catch the weight from heavy negative barbell squats. The weights were so heavy that it required two training partners, one at each platform just to hoist the ponderous weight into position. It was ridiculous the way we wobbled under the huge, crushing poundage’s pressing down on our spines as we prepared to drop into a squat. As we engaged into each gut busting rep, the bar would more often than not come crashing down uncontrollably.
    This method was already lacking two of the necessary major requirements for muscle growth. Not only did we not experience a pump of any kind with this method, but also there was no muscular soreness present afterward either. The only thing that ached after afterwards were our backs and knees. We finally quit the system after eventually wearing out the platforms. Discouraged after making absolutely no progress, I quit altogether for a while.
    Again, it was thanks to Jones’s influence that I believed the “pump” not to be conditional to stimulating muscle growth with negative only training (and as I recall, with any style of training for that matter as far as he was concerned). What outright nonsense! Not only is a pump mandatory for growth stimulation, if it does not occur, then the trainee must be training for reasons other than building muscle.
    It is unfortunate that the bodybuilding public has for so long been denied the true value of properly applied negative only resistance training. The good news is that the negative only system has been re-visited in a way that it is literally the most effective application of this method yet contrived. With the new system, the outstanding effects of negative only training are maximized in a fashion that eliminates the necessity of using ridiculous poundage’s, and in some cases require no “weights” at all.
    The modus operandi of proper negative only resistance training is as follows. The negative only movement should be performed as the final exercise of a giant set for any given muscle group. By this time, the preceding positive only sets will have created a “weak link” that momentarily reduces existing strength levels. The muscles are now rendered unable to handle nearly as much weight for a set of negative only resistance exercise as they could otherwise when they are fresh and strong. It is no longer necessary to utilize excessive poundage’s that are normally associated with negative only training and still derive all of its benefits and advantages; and this is achieved as safely and as efficiently as possible.
    Let us discuss the proper use of negative only resistance using the example of a three-exercise giant set for the biceps:

    Machine curls
    Barbell curls
    Preacher curls (negative only)

    In this scenario, the third and final exercise in this giant set is a set of preacher curls to be performed in negative only fashion. As mentioned in the last chapter, there should be no rest time going from regular barbell curls to the set of negative only preacher curls. Longer rest periods enable rapid recovery in strength levels. This would then require an unnecessarily greater effort on the part of the training partner to assist in providing resistance for the negative only exercise. However if the negative only set is performed immediately after the final positive set, little effort will then be required on the part of the assistant.
    Negative only preacher curls are to be performed with an empty bar. Starting in the contracted position, the assistant should then take hold of the bar and begin pulling down manually. The assistant should apply just enough resistance as to not overpower the subject, and adjust it to their momentary strength levels. The subject should apply maximum effort while negatively resisting on the way down with as much intensity as possible. The recommended number of repetitions to be performed is six, the duration of each lasting six to eight seconds.
    Listed below is part of a sample program for the deltoids, again incorporating the negative only exercise component:

    Cable side laterals
    Behind the neck smith machine press
    Side laterals (negative only)

    The negative only exercise in this example is side laterals. The subject begins by bringing their arms into position, arms outstretched from the sides with the hands prone. The assistant then grasps onto the subjects wrists, pressing down while the subject resists against the resistance.
    A properly performed giant set ending with a set of negative only resistance exercise will challenge a muscle beyond its momentary capabilities and will very quickly produce outstanding results. The Negative feedback system produces a physiological growth phenomenon that visibly produces increases in strength and size with virtually every workout. The totally obliterated muscular sensation experienced afterward will confirm that you are on the right track. A workout performed in this fashion will leave the trainee feeling as though they had just climbed up a mountain with a refrigerator on their back. The “pump” that is experienced by the new system is paranormal and will leave you with a sensation that is indescribable; in a word “ thrashed”.
    While negative only resistance performed independently results in little or nothing in the way of producing a pump, when combined with positive exercise, the pump that is produced is more extreme than anything that can be produced with any other style of training. In essence, the negative only resistance component of the new system serves to “prime the pump” sort of speak, by creating a vacuum in the muscle. This mechanism enhances the muscles filling with blood, producing a pump that is way beyond that which had already been produced by the positive only exercises alone. This is not the kind of worthless pump that is easily attained with a flurry of light movements for high repetitions; but a true, deep down to the bone, full-blown pump that results incidentally- in extreme muscular soreness.
    Systematic increases in strength with the Negative feedback system will be evident retrospectively by monitoring increases in poundage’s for positive only exercises as indicators of progress; the “feedback” device being the “loop” by which negative only training reciprocally enhances the effects of positive training thereby extending it’s limitations. It is the combination of negative only and positive training that produces this mechanism, which inspires the new system’s moniker and apt metaphor describing it as the “Negative feedback system”.
    Here is some food for thought for variable resistance proponents. When negative only training is performed using the traditional method of utilizing heavy barbells, the imposed resistance is fixed while the natural strength curves of the muscles vary. Therefore unless negative only movements are performed on machines with a variable resistance component built into them, much of its value is lost. Even if the subject were to rely on the rotary aspect of a machine to apply negative resistance in a more accommodating fashion, what is to say that the variable resistance settings of that machine will conform exactly to the natural strength curves and leverage factors of that particular individual? With so many variables involved, it is more likely that the negative application will not synchronize with these secondary considerations.
    Even if rotary machines were able to ideally accommodate those considerations, the subject would still have to utilize super heavy weights and rely on a partner(s) to first pull the entire load into position. In any case, the conventional negative only system is just not practical.
    A simple solution comes in the form of the Negative feedback system, which incidentally has little to do with any equipment at all, let alone even a barbell in some cases. The “tool” in question comes in the form of a willing participant, that is; negative only resistance applied manually by a training partner. In this fashion, negative only resistance can be applied with any exercise and be gradually adjusted according to the subjects natural strength curves throughout the entire range of motion; a feature that is not necessarily accomplished with barbells or machines-rotary or otherwise. The new system exponentially enhances the overall value of conventional exercise while virtually making any other form of exercise, including negative only resistance-vastly inferior.
    One might argue that using manually applied resistance would make it difficult to track progress because there is no way of measuring the actual amount of resistance being applied. This is not an issue however. The only responsibility of the subject during the performance of a negative only set is to do so with 100 % maximum effort; increases in strength will take care of themselves accordingly. Monitoring strength levels by the performance of positive only exercises are ultimately the indicator for gauging the results produced by the negative only applications. It is the negative only aspect of the new system that serves as a catalyst for the positive only component, both being reciprocal to each other.
    To expand a bit more in regards to the variable resistance aspect of training; some authorities have claimed that the lack of variable resistance is a great shortcoming of barbells and conventional equipment, or that they are at least guilty of not providing adequate resistance as needed in the contracted position. This is not exactly true in all cases.
    There are numerous conventional exercises that fulfill this aspect perfectly such as calf raises, side laterals, upright rows, cable exercises, and spider curls-just to name a few. Partial repetitions in the contracted position will also easily satisfy the requirement for working the muscles “full range”, or at least that aspect of the moment arm that is not otherwise necessarily affected by certain machines or free weights. In any case, one thing is for certain; the sheer force of intensity that is provided by the new system, clearly over rides the idiosyncrasies of variable resistance or a lack thereof. The machinations of the new system with manually applied variable resistance are overwhelmingly inclusive of all requisites for growth. The necessities to fulfill any other requirements beyond this are incidental.
    In order to derive the best possible results from negative only resistance training, a training partner is almost always a necessity. In the event that a training partner is not available however, there are ways to improvise. For example whenever I don’t have a partner, I improvise by “cheating” the weight into position before resisting it negatively on the way down. Single limb exercises can also easily be performed in negative only fashion.
    The Negative feedback system experience will forever squash any “heavy weights are a must” arguments. The heavy resistance requirement can now be fulfilled without resorting to the burdens of conventional heavy negative overload training. There is a time and place for everything; and under the right conditions and timing, “heavy” is a good thing-relatively speaking. In the case of properly executed negative feedback protocol, manually applied resistance will provide all the “weight” that a trainee can possibly handle. If after trying the new system, a trainee still insists that heavy weights rule; then perhaps they should consider a job moving pianos.
    The Negative feedback system takes the subjectivity out of training, putting the trainee in the driver’s seat as they maneuver toward their objectives. When the methods described in this chapter are put into motion, the trainee will be in full control of their rate progress, and will be able to predictably and measurably produce increases in strength and size-at will.
    The proper application of negative only training has been previously unknown or at least misunderstood. The new system is the “missing link” that brings out the best of both worlds from the standpoints of negative only and conventional exercise.

  2. #2
    THUNDER THIGHS! Fuzzy's Avatar
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    Hooray for another giant waste of paper and internet space!!

    **** man, all you needed to say was 'the muscle legnthens as it contracts, it tears alot, you wake up sore in the morning.'

    THE END
    Being a strong teenager means nothing.

    My wrists hurt, but some people don't have wrists to be sore. My knees have tendinitis, but some people don't have legs to get tendinitis in. I seem to be going backwards with training, yet some people can't even walk let alone lift 400 pounds on a daily basis.

    Dust out the vagina, and keep on lifting.

  3. #3
    Hungry like the wolf. Dgro's Avatar
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    ::::::::::::::::::::Updated 9-16-11::::::::::::::::::::
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    Height - 6'3 Weight - 194lbs Age - 21

    "I've got a theory that if you give 100% all of the time, somehow things will work out in the end." - Larry Bird

  4. #4
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    does anyone have the patience to read this? I will give it a try some time, but not tonight.


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements – Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

    Just get under the bar!

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    Wannabebig Member biglift's Avatar
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    making this long post..1 hr
    not reading it..priceless..

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by drmarkp View Post
    hi this is dr mark p. i have submitted chapter 10 of my book for your enjoyment. thank you.

    Chapter 10
    Negative only, variable resistance and the human control factors


    Since its inception, negative only training has been touted by certain bodybuilding authorities as possessing great value for gaining strength and size; and rightfully so. Nevertheless, this method never really caught on to enjoy the popularity of other less valuable bodybuilding techniques. Seemingly failing to live up to the results that it claimed it would; negative only training sailed into oblivion. Unfortunately, justice never prevailed for the negative only system of training, nor did it get its proper due. While some authorities were able to recognize its value, no one really succeeded in harnessing its proper applications.
    Negative only resistance uniquely contributes significantly to the enhancement of the intensity of exercise by imposing a workload on the muscles that is not possible to achieve with any other method of training.

    What studies or subjects have you read, conducted or observed that support this claim?

    Negative only training is an extension from where standard positive/negative training leaves off; the new system taking it even further.
    The basic concept of negative only resistance is that muscles are able to accommodate greater resistance during the negative aspect of an exercise than they can for the positive one. Because negative only resistance enables a muscle to utilize more weight than it would be capable of otherwise, it’s dynamic forces it to work harder thus recruiting a greater number of available muscle fibers. This negatively enhanced overload causes the muscle to adapt with increases in strength and size.
    Unfortunately, there are drawbacks with the conventional system of negative only training. First, the original method required ponderous poundage’s (usually in the form of heavy barbells) that would have to first be lifted into position by a spotter (or two) before the trainee could proceed to perform the negative only aspect of an exercise. This scenario was as cumbersome as it was impractical.
    Second, due to the extremely heavy weights that were employed, adequate preparation of the muscles and their involved structures could not possibly occur by merely by going through a series of minor warm-up sets and then directly into a heavy set of negative only exercise. It is wishful thinking that a typical warm-up could possibly adequately prepare soft tissue components for the crushing poundage’s that would be associated with this style of training; the potential danger involved being the risk of injury.
    Third, this method would not allow for pre-conditioning of the muscles and their auxiliary structures. Unless a state of pre-conditioning is achieved, the involved structures will not be able to adequately affect the contractions necessary to optimally stimulate growth. Pre-conditioning is achieved by first performing a systematic series of intense multiple positive only sets prior to engaging in a set of negative only resistance exercise. This last point serving to reflect a running theme of this journal in that a single set of any exercise cannot sufficiently engage enough muscle fibers to adequately stimulate muscle growth, negative only or otherwise; multiple sets being a requirement for growth.
    Fourth, there is a lack of variable resistance as to adjust to the fluctuation of momentary strength levels (more on this later).
    The excessively heavy poundage’s that are imposed by the conventional method of negative only training renders the muscles, connective tissues and auxiliary structures beyond their ability to cope. Forcefully subjecting connective tissue structures to the undue stress of such excessive overloads renders the target muscles literally irresponsive thus literally repudiating growth. For all the involved tissues and structures to respond properly, they must be thoroughly prepared to do so.
    Negative only training is something that should not be jumped into hastily without proper preparation, and is of little or no value unless first integrated with sets of positive only resistance exercises. The conventional system of negative only training has traditionally been promoted as an entity unto itself, and nowhere was it ever proposed that it should be integrated synergistically with positive only exercises.

    Hence the "only" term

    Negative only training should not be performed exclusively, but adjunctively to conventional exercise.

    However your chapter is entitled negative only. This is not negative only

    Giant sets provide the perfect “bridge” connecting positive and negative only exercise; their combined applications reciprocally enhancing the muscles responsiveness to both.
    With the new system, by the time you are ready to perform the set of negative only exercise, the target area will have been already fully prepared to take on the rigors of high intensity negative only training and able to derive the maximum benefits from it. The following is an example of what happens when negative only training is taken to the counterproductive extreme.
    Years ago my training partner and I attempted to do what we perceived to be the correct method for doing “negatives”. We constructed two large, square wooden platforms that were designed to catch the weight from heavy negative barbell squats. The weights were so heavy that it required two training partners, one at each platform just to hoist the ponderous weight into position. It was ridiculous the way we wobbled under the huge, crushing poundage’s pressing down on our spines as we prepared to drop into a squat. As we engaged into each gut busting rep, the bar would more often than not come crashing down uncontrollably.
    This method was already lacking two of the necessary major requirements for muscle growth. Not only did we not experience a pump of any kind with this method, but also there was no muscular soreness present afterward either. The only thing that ached after afterwards were our backs and knees. We finally quit the system after eventually wearing out the platforms. Discouraged after making absolutely no progress, I quit altogether for a while.
    Again, it was thanks to Jones’s influence that I believed the “pump” not to be conditional to stimulating muscle growth with negative only training (and as I recall, with any style of training for that matter as far as he was concerned). What outright nonsense! Not only is a pump mandatory for growth stimulation, if it does not occur, then the trainee must be training for reasons other than building muscle.

    This is a myth. The "pump" does NOT cause muscle growth. Food, rest and proper training does.


    It is unfortunate that the bodybuilding public has for so long been denied the true value of properly applied negative only resistance training. The good news is that the negative only system has been re-visited in a way that it is literally the most effective application of this method yet contrived. With the new system, the outstanding effects of negative only training are maximized in a fashion that eliminates the necessity of using ridiculous poundage’s, and in some cases require no “weights” at all.
    The modus operandi of proper negative only resistance training is as follows. The negative only movement should be performed as the final exercise of a giant set for any given muscle group. By this time, the preceding positive only sets will have created a “weak link” that momentarily reduces existing strength levels. The muscles are now rendered unable to handle nearly as much weight for a set of negative only resistance exercise as they could otherwise when they are fresh and strong. It is no longer necessary to utilize excessive poundage’s that are normally associated with negative only training and still derive all of its benefits and advantages; and this is achieved as safely and as efficiently as possible.
    Let us discuss the proper use of negative only resistance using the example of a three-exercise giant set for the biceps:

    Machine curls
    Barbell curls
    Preacher curls (negative only)

    In this scenario, the third and final exercise in this giant set is a set of preacher curls to be performed in negative only fashion. As mentioned in the last chapter, there should be no rest time going from regular barbell curls to the set of negative only preacher curls. Longer rest periods enable rapid recovery in strength levels. This would then require an unnecessarily greater effort on the part of the training partner to assist in providing resistance for the negative only exercise. However if the negative only set is performed immediately after the final positive set, little effort will then be required on the part of the assistant.
    Negative only preacher curls are to be performed with an empty bar. Starting in the contracted position, the assistant should then take hold of the bar and begin pulling down manually. The assistant should apply just enough resistance as to not overpower the subject, and adjust it to their momentary strength levels. The subject should apply maximum effort while negatively resisting on the way down with as much intensity as possible. The recommended number of repetitions to be performed is six, the duration of each lasting six to eight seconds.
    Listed below is part of a sample program for the deltoids, again incorporating the negative only exercise component:

    Cable side laterals
    Behind the neck smith machine press
    Side laterals (negative only)

    The negative only exercise in this example is side laterals. The subject begins by bringing their arms into position, arms outstretched from the sides with the hands prone. The assistant then grasps onto the subjects wrists, pressing down while the subject resists against the resistance.
    A properly performed giant set ending with a set of negative only resistance exercise will challenge a muscle beyond its momentary capabilities and will very quickly produce outstanding results. The Negative feedback system produces a physiological growth phenomenon that visibly produces increases in strength and size with virtually every workout. The totally obliterated muscular sensation experienced afterward will confirm that you are on the right track. A workout performed in this fashion will leave the trainee feeling as though they had just climbed up a mountain with a refrigerator on their back. The “pump” that is experienced by the new system is paranormal and will leave you with a sensation that is indescribable; in a word “ thrashed”.
    While negative only resistance performed independently results in little or nothing in the way of producing a pump, when combined with positive exercise, the pump that is produced is more extreme than anything that can be produced with any other style of training. In essence, the negative only resistance component of the new system serves to “prime the pump” sort of speak, by creating a vacuum in the muscle. This mechanism enhances the muscles filling with blood, producing a pump that is way beyond that which had already been produced by the positive only exercises alone. This is not the kind of worthless pump that is easily attained with a flurry of light movements for high repetitions; but a true, deep down to the bone, full-blown pump that results incidentally- in extreme muscular soreness.
    Systematic increases in strength with the Negative feedback system will be evident retrospectively by monitoring increases in poundage’s for positive only exercises as indicators of progress; the “feedback” device being the “loop” by which negative only training reciprocally enhances the effects of positive training thereby extending it’s limitations. It is the combination of negative only and positive training that produces this mechanism, which inspires the new system’s moniker and apt metaphor describing it as the “Negative feedback system”.
    Here is some food for thought for variable resistance proponents. When negative only training is performed using the traditional method of utilizing heavy barbells, the imposed resistance is fixed while the natural strength curves of the muscles vary. Therefore unless negative only movements are performed on machines with a variable resistance component built into them, much of its value is lost. Even if the subject were to rely on the rotary aspect of a machine to apply negative resistance in a more accommodating fashion, what is to say that the variable resistance settings of that machine will conform exactly to the natural strength curves and leverage factors of that particular individual? With so many variables involved, it is more likely that the negative application will not synchronize with these secondary considerations.
    Even if rotary machines were able to ideally accommodate those considerations, the subject would still have to utilize super heavy weights and rely on a partner(s) to first pull the entire load into position. In any case, the conventional negative only system is just not practical.
    A simple solution comes in the form of the Negative feedback system, which incidentally has little to do with any equipment at all, let alone even a barbell in some cases. The “tool” in question comes in the form of a willing participant, that is; negative only resistance applied manually by a training partner.

    Yet the only programs you outline here are exercises with weights/machines

    In this fashion, negative only resistance can be applied with any exercise and be gradually adjusted according to the subjects natural strength curves throughout the entire range of motion; a feature that is not necessarily accomplished with barbells or machines-rotary or otherwise. The new system exponentially enhances the overall value of conventional exercise while virtually making any other form of exercise, including negative only resistance-vastly inferior.
    One might argue that using manually applied resistance would make it difficult to track progress because there is no way of measuring the actual amount of resistance being applied. This is not an issue however. The only responsibility of the subject during the performance of a negative only set is to do so with 100 % maximum effort; increases in strength will take care of themselves accordingly. Monitoring strength levels by the performance of positive only exercises are ultimately the indicator for gauging the results produced by the negative only applications. It is the negative only aspect of the new system that serves as a catalyst for the positive only component, both being reciprocal to each other.

    However unless both training partners are familiar with each other's style and both are serious about training, injury could easily occur. Moreover what if you train alone (as I do)?


    To expand a bit more in regards to the variable resistance aspect of training; some authorities have claimed that the lack of variable resistance is a great shortcoming of barbells and conventional equipment, or that they are at least guilty of not providing adequate resistance as needed in the contracted position. This is not exactly true in all cases.
    There are numerous conventional exercises that fulfill this aspect perfectly such as calf raises, side laterals, upright rows, cable exercises, and spider curls-just to name a few.

    Isolation and dangerous exercises. This does not really support your point.

    Partial repetitions in the contracted position will also easily satisfy the requirement for working the muscles “full range”, or at least that aspect of the moment arm that is not otherwise necessarily affected by certain machines or free weights. In any case, one thing is for certain; the sheer force of intensity that is provided by the new system, clearly over rides the idiosyncrasies of variable resistance or a lack thereof. The machinations of the new system with manually applied variable resistance are overwhelmingly inclusive of all requisites for growth.

    Food and rest are much more important for growth. You can do all the negative training you want, but you will not grow without THOSE "requisites"

    The necessities to fulfill any other requirements beyond this are incidental.

    In order to derive the best possible results from negative only resistance training, a training partner is almost always a necessity. In the event that a training partner is not available however, there are ways to improvise. For example whenever I don’t have a partner, I improvise by “cheating” the weight into position before resisting it negatively on the way down. Single limb exercises can also easily be performed in negative only fashion.

    Certain exercises can not be cheated in this fashion though. Single limb yes, like curls. But "cheating" with heavy squats or deads is more likely than not to land you in the hospital


    The Negative feedback system experience will forever squash any “heavy weights are a must” arguments. The heavy resistance requirement can now be fulfilled without resorting to the burdens of conventional heavy negative overload training. There is a time and place for everything; and under the right conditions and timing, “heavy” is a good thing-relatively speaking. In the case of properly executed negative feedback protocol, manually applied resistance will provide all the “weight” that a trainee can possibly handle.

    Proof for this assertion or claim? Just so I understand correctly, you are telling us that a 150 training partner can provide all the resistance on his own that somebody who can bench 400 lbs (with corresponding squat and deadlift weights) can handle?

    If after trying the new system, a trainee still insists that heavy weights rule; then perhaps they should consider a job moving pianos.
    The Negative feedback system takes the subjectivity out of training, putting the trainee in the driver’s seat as they maneuver toward their objectives. When the methods described in this chapter are put into motion, the trainee will be in full control of their rate progress, and will be able to predictably and measurably produce increases in strength and size-at will.
    The proper application of negative only training has been previously unknown or at least misunderstood. The new system is the “missing link” that brings out the best of both worlds from the standpoints of negative only and conventional exercise.
    My responses are above in bold. I look forward to your replies.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 04-20-2008 at 09:35 PM.

  7. #7
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    “While some authorities were able to recognize its value, no one really succeeded in harnessing its proper applications.”
    --Who were/are these authorities and what are their applicable credentials?
    “Negative only resistance uniquely contributes significantly to the enhancement of the intensity of exercise by imposing a workload on the muscles that is not possible to achieve with any other method of training.”
    -- Just because the weight of the load is increased in comparison does not necessarily apply to the amount of force is needed if the movement of the resistance is altered.
    “Because negative only resistance enables a muscle to utilize more weight than it would be capable of otherwise, it’s dynamic forces it to work harder thus recruiting a greater number of available muscle fibers. This negatively enhanced overload causes the muscle to adapt with increases in strength and size.”
    -- Such a statement needs statistical, clinical or physiological results to be accredited.
    “This last point serving to reflect a running theme of this journal in that a single set of any exercise cannot sufficiently engage enough muscle fibers to adequately stimulate muscle growth, negative only or otherwise; multiple sets being a requirement for growth.”
    -- This goes against many of the hypertrophy proven theories of modern training. You either need to reconsider this statement, define what you consider a ‘single set’ or research the ‘twenty rep squat’ method.
    “Fourth, there is a lack of variable resistance as to adjust to the fluctuation of momentary strength levels (more on this later).”
    --Did you ever consider that the force applied by the muscular system is not consistent throughout the entire flexion/extension of a compound movement?
    “Giant sets provide the perfect “bridge” connecting positive and negative only exercise; their combined applications reciprocally enhancing the muscles responsiveness to both.”
    --Are you making up terms? Could you define/restate this?
    “With the new system, by the time you are ready to perform the set of negative only exercise, the target area will have been already fully prepared to take on the rigors of high intensity negative only training and able to derive the maximum benefits from it.”
    --What are you considering the maximum benefits? Doesn’t that depend on one’s goals for the training? No goals or ANY background information has been discussed on who this training is directed to/for!
    “As we engaged into each gut busting rep, the bar would more often than not come crashing down uncontrollably.
    This method was already lacking two of the necessary major requirements for muscle growth. Not only did we not experience a pump of any kind with this method, but also there was no muscular soreness present afterward either.”
    --Pump and soreness are in no way EVER considered “two of the necessary major requirements for muscle growth.”



    At this point I am going to stop posting questions and comments except two last questions…
    1.) Can you please post your own credentials and a reference system for the information this is “based” on?
    2.) Are you available to further discuss (not defend) this article online?

  8. #8
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    As a writer, I would say you have too many semicolons and run-on sentences. It is too difficult to read. I stopped after the first couple of paragraphs. Make your sentences short and sweet. This makes them easier to .

  9. #9
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure this is spam, but letting the members here rip apart this trash is worth leaving it up.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  10. #10
    Couldn't find IAMBUFF.COM
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    If this is spam and its intent is to persuade readers to purchase his book...I believe this would be very bad advertisement.
    I would like to see the author share his thoughts on our statements.

    Although the bad part is, if this was posted on T-nation and written by C Thib people would have eaten it up. Yea, I said it!
    Last edited by nddillon; 04-21-2008 at 07:15 PM.

  11. #11
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    Answer to negative feedback system questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Songsangnim View Post
    My responses are above in bold. I look forward to your replies.
    Q: What studies or subjects have you read, conducted or observed that support this claim?

    A: I’ve been around for a long time. As far back as I remember, it was Arthur Jones who strongly endorsed the value of Negative resistance exercise back in the early seventies. I read all of his work. There may have been others before him who touted it but I’m not sure. In other chapters I speak about my years of bodybuilding competition, education, and personal experience with what I call, the new system. I speak about first hand experiences with my own version of negative applied resistance training and the results that I have achieved as otherworldly. I for one have been in the trenches. My training is so brutal that it scares people. No one trains harder than I do. I follow my own system to the letter. I'm not just a talking head.

    Q: Hence the "only" term?

    A: The negative “only” aspect, as it is integrated systematically with conventional exercise.

    Q: However your chapter is entitled negative only.

    A: This does not mean to imply a restriction to negative only, but instead refers to the negative aspect or component that is implimented into the rest of the training system.

    Q: This is a myth. The "pump" does NOT cause muscle growth. Food, rest and proper training does.

    A: I never said that the pump causes muscle growth. If that were the case, a guy could get huge by doing a Friday night arm pump before going clubbin' for the ladies. A pump absolutely does not cause muscle growth, but as I said, the pump experienced from proper training is a happy side effect and an indicator that proper growth stimulation has occurred, that is as long as you dont put the carriage before the horse.

    Q: Yet the only programs you outline here are exercises with weights/machines

    A: Because the negative only movements are integrated with conventional exercises whether they be done with weights or machines, in giant set fashion.

    The negative only movement is performed last. By then the target muscle will have been “pre-exhausted” by the preceding movements. All the resistance possible at this point will not be that much, nor does it have to be. Kinda like “tastes like butter but its not!” Training in this fashion derives the maximum benefit possible from negative only resistance training.

    Q: However unless both training partners are familiar with each other's style and both are serious about training, injury could easily occur. Moreover what if you train alone (as I do)?

    A: Negative only resistance can be adjusted by the training partner to accommodate for the normally existing natural strength curves; This feature in itself makes this form of negative only application superior to the conventional method.

    Injury is not an issue with this form of training either. By the time you get to the negative portion of the giant set, a “weak link” will have been created whereby even when training with maximum intensity, while the resistance used by now though minimal, is adequate and effective. The maximum benefit is now yielded from negative resistance training.

    There are ways to implement negative resistance when training alone. For some select movements, I use a cheating method followed by accentuating the negative. Nothing-new here, but you can get creative.

    Q: Isolation and dangerous exercises. This does not really support your point.

    A: What I am saying is that compound exercises are potentially the most dangerous exercises when the focus is merely to move the weight from point A to point B. There’s a lot more to it. I’ll throw up some more chapters that will bring everything together.

    Q: Food and rest are much more important for growth. You can do all the negative training you want, but you will not grow without THOSE "requisites"

    A: You are absolutely correct! That goes without saying and I certainly address the importance of nutrition very thoroughly in other chapters; but I am speaking strictly about training here.

    Q: Certain exercises can not be cheated in this fashion though. Single limb yes, like curls. But "cheating" with heavy squats or deads is more likely than not to land you in the hospital.

    A: You are correct again. I would never recommend anything other than positive/negative (conventional) training for dead lifts; and not even go to complete failure at that! As for legwork, I never do negatives. The way the program is set up, it’s plenty brutal as it is. I do however accentuate the negative as much as possible.

    Q: Proof for this assertion or claim? Just so I understand correctly, you are telling us that a 150 training partner can provide all the resistance on his own that somebody who can bench 400 lbs (with corresponding squat and deadlift weights) can handle?

    A: Yes I am, but this is explained more thoroughly in another chapter that I will post soon that explains how a “loop” is form that creates an environment most conducive to the negative only aspect of the new system outline.

    Thanks for the great questions!!

  12. #12
    Couldn't find IAMBUFF.COM
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    Do you plan on addressing post number 7?

  13. #13
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drmarkp View Post
    I for one have been in the trenches. My training is so brutal that it scares people. No one trains harder than I do.
    There are a ton of members over at Intense Muscle who train following DC who would take issue with this statment. Also, the guys over here train hard and intense as well. Anyone who makes this claim, to me, is a joke. Tons of people work hard. If you need to say that to yourself to make your own workouts effective, that is fine. But, to come on here and make that claim on your second post, is insulting to myself personally and the members here. I can't wait to see how Songsangnim replies to you. You better be able to bring it.


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  14. #14
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    I'm a bobybuilder not a journalist

    Quote Originally Posted by sigl View Post
    As a writer, I would say you have too many semicolons and run-on sentences. It is too difficult to read. I stopped after the first couple of paragraphs. Make your sentences short and sweet. This makes them easier to .
    Goes to prove that i don't have ghost writer

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    I'm a bodybuilder not a journalist

    Quote Originally Posted by sigl View Post
    As a writer, I would say you have too many semicolons and run-on sentences. It is too difficult to read. I stopped after the first couple of paragraphs. Make your sentences short and sweet. This makes them easier to .
    Goes to prove that i don't have ghost writer

  16. #16
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    This message is real

    Quote Originally Posted by nddillon View Post
    If this is spam and its intent is to persuade readers to purchase his book...I believe this would be very bad advertisement.
    I would like to see the author share his thoughts on our statements.

    Although the bad part is, if this was posted on T-nation and written by C Thib people would have eaten it up. Yea, I said it!
    No this is not spam. This is a real journal and i am a real guy. Thirty years of trail and observation went into the making of this work. I am just now finally being compelled to put my thoughts out there.

    Yes, i did construct a site awhile back, but its not even functional. I actually have other site projects in mind down the road. Meanwhile, im not selling anything, and would be glad to post all 21 chapters for free to anyone who wants to read them. The basic common demoninator that i share with all of you is my passion for bodybulding. We all have opinions, good, bad or indifferent, i have decided to share mine with this community, if thats OK with you. Thank you for reading.

    drmarkp

  17. #17
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    I think negatives are stupid and a great way to predispose yourself to an injury

    I agree with Fuzzy, that "chapter" should probably be redone, or not at all


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  18. #18
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nddillon View Post
    Do you plan on addressing post number 7?

    Don't hold your breath
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
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  19. #19
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    I just don't understand what negative training can do that "normal" training can't.

  20. #20
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drmarkp View Post
    Q: What studies or subjects have you read, conducted or observed that support this claim?

    A: I’ve been around for a long time. As far back as I remember, it was Arthur Jones who strongly endorsed the value of Negative resistance exercise back in the early seventies. I read all of his work. There may have been others before him who touted it but I’m not sure. In other chapters I speak about my years of bodybuilding competition, education, and personal experience with what I call, the new system. I speak about first hand experiences with my own version of negative applied resistance training and the results that I have achieved as otherworldly. I for one have been in the trenches. My training is so brutal that it scares people. No one trains harder than I do. I follow my own system to the letter. I'm not just a talking head.
    So that's a 'none'. Jones was a brilliant marketing mind, not a revolutionary trainer or physiologist. No clinical research was used.


    Q: This is a myth. The "pump" does NOT cause muscle growth. Food, rest and proper training does.

    A: I never said that the pump causes muscle growth. If that were the case, a guy could get huge by doing a Friday night arm pump before going clubbin' for the ladies. A pump absolutely does not cause muscle growth, but as I said, the pump experienced from proper training is a happy side effect and an indicator that proper growth stimulation has occurred, that is as long as you dont put the carriage before the horse.
    No, it is not an indicator that proper growth stimulation has occured. It is an indicator that you got a pump.

    Q: Isolation and dangerous exercises. This does not really support your point.

    A: What I am saying is that compound exercises are potentially the most dangerous exercises when the focus is merely to move the weight from point A to point B. There’s a lot more to it. I’ll throw up some more chapters that will bring everything together.
    Incorrect and unfounded generalization.

    Good luck with your book.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  21. #21
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    Answers to your questions

    Quote:
    “While some authorities were able to recognize its value, no one really succeeded in harnessing its proper applications.”
    --Who were/are these authorities and what are their applicable credentials?

    A: Arthur Jones and Mike Mentzer for two.

    Quote:
    “Negative only resistance uniquely contributes significantly to the enhancement of the intensity of exercise by imposing a workload on the muscles that is not possible to achieve with any other method of training.”
    n Just because the weight of the load is increased in comparison does not necessarily apply to the amount of force is needed if the movement of the resistance is altered.

    A: Exactly! And this is the crux of the new system in that a negative feedback “loop” is created whereby the resistance load for the negative resistance exercise become much lighter than would otherwise be necessary with conventional negative resistance protocol, while yielding the maximum benefits possible from negative resistance training. I detail this in one of the chapters.

    Quote:
    “Because negative only resistance enables a muscle to utilize more weight than it would be capable of otherwise, it’s dynamic forces it to work harder thus recruiting a greater number of available muscle fibers. This negatively enhanced overload causes the muscle to adapt with increases in strength and size.”
    n Such a statement needs statistical, clinical or physiological results to be accredited.

    A: Statistical? Clinical? Hey I’m a Chiropractor not a scientist, sorry to disappoint; but consider this, after having completed a series of exercise after which a trainee would typically cease to continuing to do more exercise, wouldn’t it make sense that intensity would be enhanced, and that an additional number of muscle fibers be recruited, by the additional workload imposed by the inclusion of a negative only resistance set at the end of a giant set? It worked for me; my previously “spindly” looking arms became bulbous, and very quickly, drug free.

    Quote:
    “This last point serving to reflect a running theme of this journal in that a single set of any exercise cannot sufficiently engage enough muscle fibers to adequately stimulate muscle growth, negative only or otherwise; multiple sets being a requirement for growth.”
    n This goes against many of the hypertrophy proven theories of modern training. You either need to reconsider this statement, define what you consider a ‘single set’ or research the ‘twenty rep squat’ method.


    A: I talk a lot more about this in another chapter. What I am saying here is that after having completed only one set, or even one series of exercise, the target muscle will not yet have reached what I call “threshold”. In other words, it is not until subsequent “rounds” of exercise that a muscle becomes “primed” enough, to build up to a complete crescendo of muscle stimulation capability. This is not to mention the needed connective tissue preparation for the workload used building up to the performance of the final sets. One single set is self-limiting, and stops way short of achieving this no matter how intense it is.

    Quote:
    “Fourth, there is a lack of variable resistance as to adjust to the fluctuation of momentary strength levels (more on this later).”
    --Did you ever consider that the force applied by the muscular system is not consistent throughout the entire flexion/extension of a compound movement?


    A: Ahh! But with partner applied resistance adjusting to the natural strength curves it is!

    Quote:
    “Giant sets provide the perfect “bridge” connecting positive and negative only exercise; their combined applications reciprocally enhancing the muscles responsiveness to both.”
    --Are you making up terms? Could you define/restate this?

    A: A “bridge” meant to describe the integration of conventional and negative only resistance exercise and the magnified value of their combined power.

    Quote:
    “With the new system, by the time you are ready to perform the set of negative only exercise, the target area will have been already fully prepared to take on the rigors of high intensity negative only training and able to derive the maximum benefits from it.”
    --What are you considering the maximum benefits? Doesn’t that depend on one’s goals for the training? No goals or ANY background information has been discussed on who this training is directed to/for!

    A: For those who are open minded and just want to get huge as safely, quickly, and as “economically” as possible.

    Quote:
    “As we engaged into each gut busting rep, the bar would more often than not come crashing down uncontrollably. This method was already lacking two of the necessary major requirements for muscle growth. Not only did we not experience a pump of any kind with this method, but also there was no muscular soreness present afterward either.”
    --Pump and soreness are in no way EVER considered “two of the necessary major requirements for muscle growth.”

    A: Of course they are. Muscular soreness, although it occurs more in some areas than others is certainly an “indicator” of growth, but like a “pump” certainly doesn’t cause it.



    At this point I am going to stop posting questions and comments except two last questions…
    1.) Can you please post your own credentials and a reference system for the information this is “based” on?

    A: I covered that a little. Other chapters reveal more as to the whys and wherefores.

    2.) Are you available to further discuss (not defend) this article online?

    A: Of course I am.

    Thank you very much for your intelligent questions, your time and your consideration.
    Sincerely
    drmarkp

  22. #22
    HomeYield WillKuenzel's Avatar
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    So basically you're taking one aspect of training and saying that's the only way to train. It's like saying that in order to get big you must only eat carbs. No protein, no fat, just carbs? You have any idea on the physiological aspect of muscle hypertrophy? You're oversimplyfing a concept to the point of being wrong. While negatives can have a positive impact on muscle growth and strength you'll be missing out a whole lot else.
    What is elite?
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  23. #23
    HomeYield WillKuenzel's Avatar
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    Tell this guy that negative training is the only way to get bigger and stronger...

    Video
    What is elite?
    "Those who work the hardest often complain the least." -anonymous
    Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.

  24. #24
    Bodybuilding Mythbuster
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    Quote Originally Posted by drmarkp View Post
    Quote:
    “As we engaged into each gut busting rep, the bar would more often than not come crashing down uncontrollably. This method was already lacking two of the necessary major requirements for muscle growth. Not only did we not experience a pump of any kind with this method, but also there was no muscular soreness present afterward either.”
    --Pump and soreness are in no way EVER considered “two of the necessary major requirements for muscle growth.”

    A: Of course they are. Muscular soreness, although it occurs more in some areas than others is certainly an “indicator” of growth, but like a “pump” certainly doesn’t cause it.


    ARRGHHH!!! (I just wrote a very long reply to this point, and my computer wouldn't let me post it).

    But here it is again in point form.

    You are contradicting yourself here. Either soreness and a pump are requirements of growth and therefore cause it or they aren't and don't. You claim that they are requirements. That means that without them growth won't occur. Yet you then say they don't cause it.

    I have put on 75 lbs since starting training. Yet in the overwhelming majority of my workouts I have experienced little to no soreness and not much "pump". Obviously if these were major requirements I should not have been able to do so.

    My hands get sore after deadlifting yet I don't have huge hands. If I ran 5 miles I would be sore and have a pump yet I would not grow. If I raked leaves all day I would be sore and have a pump yet I would not explode with new unbridled mass and muscularity.

    Muscles can't tell the difference between different kinds of soreness. That being said if your theory is correct, we wouldn't even need to lift weights.

  25. #25
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    Nice how he busted out of here when it got tough.


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