The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Its no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #26
    Senior Member MillerTime1485's Avatar
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    I've personally never taken the time to train more then once a day (usually im whiped after the frist) but if you notice you benefit from the extra workout and are having gains then do whatever it takes.

  2. #27
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    I do sometimes, but it's always at least somewhat split up by muscle groups (usually upper/lower).

    Fuzzy's method works, but you also have to remember that he has a great coach who knows what he's doing. For the average lifter, I doubt it would be the best approach.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    Yes, waah waah wah, over training.

    Explain how my squat went from 308 to 484 in the span of a year? It obviously works.

    It obviously works for YOU. But so did Arnold's training for him...by that logic we should all train like Arnold or you. Come now...

    Dont beleive every bit of dogmatic bull**** spilled out. People have no idea of the loads the human body can handle.

    Mr. Fuzzy keep in mind that you are genetically gifted and have a good coach.

    People who do not have those advantages would likely be best served by taking a different approach.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 05-25-2008 at 09:35 PM.

  4. #29
    Supplement Junkie MattBag's Avatar
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    guys I work out to tear my muscles "the more you tear the more you repair" and thebigger you get with proper diet and rest thats my philosophy. I don't see how working your muscles more in a day is bad if you get more rest inbetween your next day after that can anybody else relly agrgue that?
    MAX BENCH:275lbs. (11/2008)
    MAX SQUAT machine:420lbs. (4/2005)
    MAX SQUAT free weight: 385lbsx2. (1/2009)
    MAX DEAD LIFT hex bar: 465lbs. (1/2006)
    MAX DEAD LIFT straight bar: 455. (10/2009)
    total: 1115
    CURRENT WEIGHT:240. (10/2009)
    HEIGHT: 6'2

    The best way to get big is to eat big, lift big and LIVE BIG.

  5. #30
    Bodybuilding Mythbuster
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattBag View Post
    guys I work out to tear my muscles "the more you tear the more you repair" and thebigger you get with proper diet and rest thats my philosophy. I don't see how working your muscles more in a day is bad if you get more rest inbetween your next day after that can anybody else relly agrgue that?

    Actually it's "the more you tear the longer you repair."

    I will never understand why people ask for advice then refuse to take it.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songsangnim View Post
    Mr. Fuzzy keep in mind that you are genetically gifted and have a good coach.

    People who do not have those advantages would likely be best served by taking a different approach.
    It depends on how you train. If you use low enough volume (low sets & reps), training twice per day can work. You don't have to be "genetically gifted" for it to work. See olympic lifting training (and I am not talking about only professionals).

    Frequency/volume/intensity are a continuum, just adjust accordingly. Clearly, 20-rep squats trained 2x per day won't work for the long term, but 2 rep sets are a different matter. Use your brains, people.

    Anamnestic response is another reason why it can work.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songsangnim View Post
    That depends on the workout. You could probably get away with doing 1-2 exercises per day, but if you are doing 6-8 exercises with any real intensity then yes. Glutamine doesn't help in this regard.

    I already pointed out that low volume can work. However that does not seem to be the case here.

  8. #33
    Supplement Junkie MattBag's Avatar
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    Well I completly changed my routine so I don't even want to work out twice a day anymore but my girlfriend wants to go more now so I'm gonna be in there twice on tuesdays and thursdays... I'm adding more cardio I'm starting RESULTS tuesday and I'm lowering my cals by atleast 1000 so I should expect to see the results that RESULTS has to offer. And when I do go to the gym twice it will mostly be for running or swimming the second time because after one session of legs I'm toast so twice a day should be nice.


    Oh and just wondering for those people who do go out for a run or a jog 5 times a week how is that not bad on their leg muscles? that doesn't make sense. Or even in high school when I had a wrestling practice 4 times a week and matches 2-3 times per week. and running and weight lifting during the wrestling season? And football season when the varsity team would have to lift at 6 in the morning go through school then practie from 3:15 to 5:45...

    NOt trying to describe my high school life but how is it possible that The whole team wasn't overtraining during the season?

    Is weight training different then training with body weight? cause if it is I'm gonna do even more cardio on my days off and more push ups, crunchs leg lifts and all that instead of sitting around on my off days?
    MAX BENCH:275lbs. (11/2008)
    MAX SQUAT machine:420lbs. (4/2005)
    MAX SQUAT free weight: 385lbsx2. (1/2009)
    MAX DEAD LIFT hex bar: 465lbs. (1/2006)
    MAX DEAD LIFT straight bar: 455. (10/2009)
    total: 1115
    CURRENT WEIGHT:240. (10/2009)
    HEIGHT: 6'2

    The best way to get big is to eat big, lift big and LIVE BIG.

  9. #34
    Wannabebig Member f-rider's Avatar
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    I don't know if it works for bodybuilding, but if you look at Sheiko's and Ivanov's powerlifting programs (not the basic ones), both have twice-a-day workouts, with the same muscle groups (Ivanov's programs have bench in almost every workout, and either squat or deadlift, depending on the day, so you squat and bench in the morning, then squat and bench in the evening, with different set/rep schemes).

    It works if you get adequate rest between the morning and evening workouts, probably won't if you don't.

    I base my training off of Ivanov's programs, and because of the lack of rest (and the fact that I don't like wasting time in the gym - going to/from, changing, warm-up sets, etc. - it all adds up), I drop the lower-percentage sets that are in the program to reduce volume and combine the two workouts into one long one. This has the bonus side-effect of releasing tons of endorphins - about halfway through my workouts (they're usually 3.5 to 4 hours long) I stop feeling pain and soreness and just ****ing feel awesome. I always leave the gym happy now.

    So yeah, I wouldn't recommend working out twice a day.

  10. #35
    THUNDER THIGHS! Fuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songsangnim View Post
    [b]Mr. Fuzzy keep in mind that you are genetically gifted and have a good coach.

    People who do not have those advantages would likely be best served by taking a different approach. ]
    I always seem to butt heads with you.

    Have you ever tried a moderate two day program? Have you ever spent 2-3 months properly ramping up and conditioning yourself? Have you ever tried squatting higher frequency or HFT training in general?

    Everything you say appears to be based on things you have read. Had I not egan O lifting I would have made much the same objections as you. Regardless of genetics and coaching, common sense with this type of training can produce some incredible results.
    Last edited by Fuzzy; 05-26-2008 at 02:48 AM.
    Being a strong teenager means nothing.

    My wrists hurt, but some people don't have wrists to be sore. My knees have tendinitis, but some people don't have legs to get tendinitis in. I seem to be going backwards with training, yet some people can't even walk let alone lift 400 pounds on a daily basis.

    Dust out the vagina, and keep on lifting.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattBag View Post

    Oh and just wondering for those people who do go out for a run or a jog 5 times a week how is that not bad on their leg muscles? that doesn't make sense.

    Because running or jogging (done properly, yes there is a right and wrong way of going about it) has far less impact. Do 2-3 sets of 20 rep squats and then try running or jogging

    Or even in high school when I had a wrestling practice 4 times a week and matches 2-3 times per week. and running and weight lifting during the wrestling season? And football season when the varsity team would have to lift at 6 in the morning go through school then practie from 3:15 to 5:45...

    NOt trying to describe my high school life but how is it possible that The whole team wasn't overtraining during the season?

    A lot of their workouts were cardio...I highly doubt wrestlers would try to gain a lot of muscle mass...don't they want to stay in their weight class? Plus they had a coach supervising them...if he was at all knowledgeable he'd keep them from overtraining.

    Is weight training different then training with body weight? cause if it is I'm gonna do even more cardio on my days off and more push ups, crunchs leg lifts and all that instead of sitting around on my off days?
    Yes it is different. To list just one, it is easier to progress (in terms of weight on the bar) with bench presses as opposed to pushups.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 05-26-2008 at 02:47 AM.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    I always seem to butt heads with you.

    Have you ever tried a moderate two day program? Have you ever spent 2-3 months properly ramping up and conditioning yourself? Have you ever tried squatting higher frequency or HFT training in general?

    Everything you say appears to be based on things you have read. Had I not egan O lifting I would have made much the same objections as you. Genetics and coaching nt with staning, common sense with this typ eof training can produce some incredible results.
    Yes to all of the above.

    In nearly 20 years of training I have tried pretty much everything. I have found that for me and for everyone else I have trained, moderation works best. Especially for those that have full-time jobs and other real-life obligations. I don't want to play the old wise sage here...but what are you 15? 16? When you get to my age (and when I was yours, I HATED people saying this to me) you'll understand.

    What I say is backed up by personal experience in the gym.

    And sorry but disregarding genetics and coaching is like comparing apples to oranges. If you don't realize the part that genetics and experienced coaching play...it's HUGE.

    Hard work will only take one so far. You aren't going to be standing on the Olympic stage or squatting 2000 lbs without the genetics and likely not without the coaching.


    Common sense with ANY type of proper lifting can produce incredible results.

    Combine the above with great genetics and proper coaching and you can double said results easily. That's how powerful those two things are.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 05-26-2008 at 03:02 AM.

  13. #38
    Dr. Dudley-Robey DrDudley-Robey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    Yes, waah waah wah, over training.

    Explain how my squat went from 308 to 484 in the span of a year? It obviously works.

    Dont beleive every bit of dogmatic bull**** spilled out. People have no idea of the loads the human body can handle.

    You are a child and still growing. Children get stronger as they get older. The largest gains coming from 0-1 years old.

    You are to young to be aware of the damage you are doing to yourself. I am a physician who as been lifting longer than you have been alive and believe me we have a very good idea of what the body can handle and what it takes to recover from it. We also see the results daily from people who dont abide by those limits.

    There is a reason for some of the standard routines - they work. You do not get stronger in the gym, you do get stronger during your recovery time. If you ignore recovery, your in-trouble.

    If you can learn to be more respectful, the strongest man in your country's history (highest total ever in any weight class) is a very good friend of mine Paul Nay. His e-mail is paulnay@hotmail.com and he is normally willing to help young lifters learn how to train. 16 is a time to learn, not try to teach.

  14. #39
    THUNDER THIGHS! Fuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDudley-Robey View Post
    You are a child and still growing. Children get stronger as they get older. The largest gains coming from 0-1 years old.

    You are to young to be aware of the damage you are doing to yourself. I am a physician who as been lifting longer than you have been alive and believe me we have a very good idea of what the body can handle and what it takes to recover from it. We also see the results daily from people who dont abide by those limits.

    There is a reason for some of the standard routines - they work. You do not get stronger in the gym, you do get stronger during your recovery time. If you ignore recovery, your in-trouble.

    If you can learn to be more respectful, the strongest man in your country's history (highest total ever in any weight class) is a very good friend of mine Paul Nay. His e-mail is paulnay@hotmail.com and he is normally willing to help young lifters learn how to train. 16 is a time to learn, not try to teach.

    Fine, now go tell that to every Olympic lifting coach out there.

    Who said I was teaching anyone? I said that from my experience with hundreds of lifters (PLers, BBers, strongmen, athletes and O lifters) the dogma usually preached is flatly contradicted.

    Where did I say I ignored my recovery? I sleep 8-9 hours a day. I sauna or heat pack eveyr second day, I get weekly deep tissue work, I foam roll and strech everyday. I eat a small farm.

    Once again, if my results arent reasonable proof then go visit your local Oly lifting club. Most people telling me I will over train usually dont do any active revoery work, no massage or rolling.

    I hate sounding like an insolent smart ass., I hate appearing like a know it all teen. All I am saying that I have seen WAY WAY too much live evidence that fnankly contradicts alot of inormation and routinely recited bull**** on here and on the web.

    I took my squat form 308 to 484 in 12 months, I squatted everyday, often twice. I was skeptical, I was very dubious, and I argued often. but it worked. It went against everything I had learnt here but boy did it ****ing work.
    Last edited by Fuzzy; 05-26-2008 at 06:02 AM.
    Being a strong teenager means nothing.

    My wrists hurt, but some people don't have wrists to be sore. My knees have tendinitis, but some people don't have legs to get tendinitis in. I seem to be going backwards with training, yet some people can't even walk let alone lift 400 pounds on a daily basis.

    Dust out the vagina, and keep on lifting.

  15. #40
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    There's dogma and then there are general rules of thumb most people should follow.

    If (and it's a big 'if') you're in good shape, can intelligent program the training (or have someone do it for you), eat well, and recover adequately, then there's no reason you can't lift twice a day, at least for short periods. Being young helps too.

    There's certainly nothing wrong w. adding "extra sessions" and, I guess, I do it all the time - abs here and there, stretching, grip/wrist work, tricep work, etc. I used to do "grease the groove" work when I was a teen (long before Pavel popularized the phrase "grease the groove" for training) for pull-ups. Everything worked... for a while.

    Most people don't need to train x2/day. Most people, if they're training for hypertrophy, would probably be better off adding another session somewhere else in the week rather than tacking it onto one of their existing training days.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
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  16. #41
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    Nicely put Sensei.


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