The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
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    DB Bench press...as good an alternative?

    Hey guys,

    A friend that used to go to the gym with me just stopped going (lazy), and for the past 1.5 months I've been using dbs for bench. Is this as good or very close to barbell bench? Do you guys see any problems if I just keep using db instead of bb? i'm using the 85 lbs dbs and they're getting kind of unwieldy though.


    oh I almost forgot I'm currently doing:

    db bench
    db flies
    db incline

    all @ either 6-8 reps, 3 sets

    Would you experts consider this too much volume? or ok?
    Last edited by scumbag; 05-27-2008 at 12:24 AM.

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  3. #2
    Philippians 4:13
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    Quote Originally Posted by scumbag View Post
    Hey guys,

    A friend that used to go to the gym with me just stopped going (lazy), and for the past 1.5 months I've been using dbs for bench. Is this as good or very close to barbell bench? Do you guys see any problems if I just keep using db instead of bb? i'm using the 85 lbs dbs and they're getting kind of unwieldy though.
    nothing wrong with dbs.

    The reason they're harder is because they require your muscles to work harder to stabilize them.

    They allow for a greater range of motion

    You don't need a spot if you go heavy.

    Dbs will reveal muscle imbalances and fix them over time. That is, if you're left side is weaker, your right side will compensate for it if you were using a barbell. This is not possible with dumbbells. Your limiting factor will be your weaker side and you will only progress when it has caught up to the stronger side.
    (\__/)
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  4. #3
    Philippians 4:13
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    heres another alternative:

    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Waterbury
    I can't remember the last time I performed a barbell bench press. I'm not much of a fan of it anymore, much to the dismay of gym rats around the country. I favor a standing cable chest press when training the horizontal plane. There are two reasons.

    First, it allows for full protraction and retraction (also known as abduction-adduction) at the scapulae. Protraction (pushing the shoulder blades apart) is where a typical barbell bench press misses the mark. The standing cable chest press allows you to fully protract your scapulae in order to activate the often underdeveloped and disrespected serratus anterior. Strengthening a weak serratus is a necessary step to shoulder health.
    First Person: Waterbury

    Second, the line of resistance matches up the muscle fiber arrangement of the chest muscles. Remember, I don't want to waste one single rep in the gym, so I choose exercises that best suit the muscles I'm training.
    http://www.t-nation.com/article/body..._waterbury&cr=
    Last edited by gymnast; 05-27-2008 at 12:32 AM.
    (\__/)
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  5. #4
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    k great advice thx for the reply

  6. #5
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    I prefer dumbells as well. Especially training on your own. You may need a spot once you hit up some pretty large dumbells.
    Every workout is a new battle
    and I always win

  7. #6
    Grammar Nazi BG5150's Avatar
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    ...and eventually, you will probably outgrow the db's in your gym. A lot of gyms' db's don't go higher than 100 or 120, so you will be "capped" at 240. (Sounds like that won't be an immediate problem, though)
    There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.
    Are you eating while you are reading this? You should be... --hrdgain81
    Remember, kids, if you type well the Grammar Fairy will leave a quarter under your pillow. The Blue Book of Grammar and Punctuation

    Well, the Blog's (finally) back (again!): Love and Hope and Sex and Dreams Feel free to stop by and comment.
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  8. #7
    LittleJake JSully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BG5150 View Post
    ...and eventually, you will probably outgrow the db's in your gym. A lot of gyms' db's don't go higher than 100 or 120, so you will be "capped" at 240. (Sounds like that won't be an immediate problem, though)
    Yeah, and it totally sucks when you're "capped" out. I'm almost capped out on my db shoulder presses again.. bah!

    So.. if you can, try to do both.

    and IMO, that's not near enough volume.

    But that's me.
    Jake Sullivan
    6' - 280lbs - 29yrs old - Professional Highland Games Athlete
    curently off-season
    HG training log = road to pro
    youtube channel = www.youtube.com/xtra0t

  9. #8
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    I hit my chest a lot harder when I do DB bench. I still alternate it. One week DB one week Barbell.
    January 07-164 pounds
    *Bulking*
    Deccember 07 - 225 pounds

    June 08 - 205
    *Currently Cutting*
    Goal-190

    November 08-238 pounds
    *Bulking till January 1st*

  10. #9
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    yea, capping out is horrible. I'm at 100s on incline DB press and the gym maxes out at 120s. BB hurts the shoulder, so I am not completely sure what I will be doing once I get there. But besides that I love DB benching
    Sarvamangalam!

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleJake View Post
    Yeah, and it totally sucks when you're "capped" out. I'm almost capped out on my db shoulder presses again.. bah!

    So.. if you can, try to do both.

    and IMO, that's not near enough volume.

    But that's me.
    jake did you mean what I'm doing for chest is not enough volume?

    Currently for chest:

    db bench
    db flies
    db incline

    all @ either 6-8 reps, 3 sets

  12. #11
    LittleJake JSully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scumbag View Post
    jake did you mean what I'm doing for chest is not enough volume?

    Currently for chest:

    db bench
    db flies
    db incline

    all @ either 6-8 reps, 3 sets

    yeah, not enough volume for your chest..

    Again, thats just me and how my body works. My chest day consists of

    Flat BB Bench - 3sets
    Incline BB Bench - 3sets
    Incline DB Bench - 3sets
    Incline DB Flyes - 3sets
    Pec Dec - 2sets
    Cable Flyes - 2sets

    all at 8-10reps as heavy as possible, except dumbbel pressing, I have to either slow the movement down alot or do higher reps (15ish) since the 120's aren't too difficult anymore...

    That's on my higher calorie days, lower calorie days (think 1500kcals/day) I'm doing 4-5sets for each body part and they're full body workouts.


    If I trained 9 sets of chest, once a week, my chest would laugh at me and never change... that's just how my body reacts to training..
    Jake Sullivan
    6' - 280lbs - 29yrs old - Professional Highland Games Athlete
    curently off-season
    HG training log = road to pro
    youtube channel = www.youtube.com/xtra0t

  13. #12
    Grammar Nazi BG5150's Avatar
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    To me, "8-10 reps as heavy as possible" just sounds funny.
    There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.
    Are you eating while you are reading this? You should be... --hrdgain81
    Remember, kids, if you type well the Grammar Fairy will leave a quarter under your pillow. The Blue Book of Grammar and Punctuation

    Well, the Blog's (finally) back (again!): Love and Hope and Sex and Dreams Feel free to stop by and comment.
    Here is my newly-created World of Warcraft Blog: BG's WoW Blog. Once again, feel free to stop by and comment.

  14. #13
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BG5150 View Post
    To me, "8-10 reps as heavy as possible" just sounds funny.
    lol yup

  15. #14
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleJake View Post
    yeah, not enough volume for your chest..

    Again, thats just me and how my body works. My chest day consists of

    Flat BB Bench - 3sets
    Incline BB Bench - 3sets
    Incline DB Bench - 3sets
    Incline DB Flyes - 3sets
    Pec Dec - 2sets
    Cable Flyes - 2sets

    all at 8-10reps as heavy as possible, except dumbbel pressing, I have to either slow the movement down alot or do higher reps (15ish) since the 120's aren't too difficult anymore...

    That's on my higher calorie days, lower calorie days (think 1500kcals/day) I'm doing 4-5sets for each body part and they're full body workouts.


    If I trained 9 sets of chest, once a week, my chest would laugh at me and never change... that's just how my body reacts to training..
    I do about 9 working sets with an additional 6-7 warmups for chest every week and I think what matters is how the reps are done. If each rep took 4-5 seconds it would be a lot different. I am curious to know how quick you rep out so much volume.

  16. #15
    LittleJake JSully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BG5150 View Post
    To me, "8-10 reps as heavy as possible" just sounds funny.
    lol, re-reading, I can see what you mean. I lift as heavy as I can so that if I were to hit 11-12 reps, it would be failure.. since I don't want to fail on any given set (except maybe the last one) I will stop 1-2 reps short of failure. Instead of working my way up in a progresion type routine, I do my warmups then jump to what I last remember doing for 8-10 reps which is 275 for me on flat bb bench. Once I can get 275 for 3 sets of 12, I'll increase weight up to 295 or 305 and start out again at 3 sets of 8 reps and then increase as needed.

    Alot of people just go in and grab whatever weight they want and pop it out for reps even if they CAN do way more reps than they ARE doing. I try to train as heavy as I can for those 8-10 reps. But that is depending upon what I am aiming for at the moment. My body responds well to growth in that range, my body responds well to strength in the 3-6 rep range. Next month I'll be swapping to strength for a couple months and will increase the weight and decrease the reps.

    Quote Originally Posted by BFGUITAR View Post
    lol yup
    Quote Originally Posted by BFGUITAR View Post
    I do about 9 working sets with an additional 6-7 warmups for chest every week and I think what matters is how the reps are done. If each rep took 4-5 seconds it would be a lot different. I am curious to know how quick you rep out so much volume.
    I agree that it matters how the reps are done. I have never been much of a tempo kind of guy. I can't stand counting out seconds of eccentric and concentric reps.. I'll lose count of my reps. lol.. One set of 10-12 reps will take me about 30 seconds, give or take 5 seconds. My warmups are VERY fast fast and almost like a speed bench. I'll do 135x25 for 2 warmups and then stretch like crazy. When I do chest/delts/biceps on a high calorie day, it takes me about an hour and a half, maybe hour and 45mins if I'm dillydallying around. That's 16 sets chest, 12 sets delts, 12 sets biceps. My glycogen depletion workouts take just over an hour and my full body workouts take just over an hour.
    Jake Sullivan
    6' - 280lbs - 29yrs old - Professional Highland Games Athlete
    curently off-season
    HG training log = road to pro
    youtube channel = www.youtube.com/xtra0t

  17. #16
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleJake View Post
    yeah, not enough volume for your chest..

    Again, thats just me and how my body works. My chest day consists of

    Flat BB Bench - 3sets
    Incline BB Bench - 3sets
    Incline DB Bench - 3sets
    Incline DB Flyes - 3sets
    Pec Dec - 2sets
    Cable Flyes - 2sets

    all at 8-10reps as heavy as possible, except dumbbel pressing, I have to either slow the movement down alot or do higher reps (15ish) since the 120's aren't too difficult anymore...

    That's on my higher calorie days, lower calorie days (think 1500kcals/day) I'm doing 4-5sets for each body part and they're full body workouts.


    If I trained 9 sets of chest, once a week, my chest would laugh at me and never change... that's just how my body reacts to training..
    you have a chest day? that is a lot of chest volume in one day. I would cut that in half and spread it out. What is the purpose of all of these?
    Is each and every set intense and heavy?
    Do you do an equal amount of pulling?
    Equal amount of Vertical pushing and pulling?
    Not neglect your legs?
    I can't imagine that you answer yes to all of these questions and have a routine that is not riduculous high volume(which would be needed for a balanced routine)



    What all have you tried to stimulate your chest? I have to be insistent on saying that there has to be a better way for you to get sufficient chest stimulation without this amount of chest volume
    Last edited by ZenMonkey; 05-27-2008 at 12:51 PM.
    Sarvamangalam!

  18. #17
    LittleJake JSully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMonkey View Post
    you have a chest day? that is a lot of chest volume in one day. I would cut that in half and spread it out. What is the purpose of all of these?
    Is each and every set intense and heavy?
    Do you do an equal amount of pulling?
    Equal amount of Vertical pushing and pulling?
    Not neglect your legs?
    I can't imagine that you answer yes to all of these questions and have a routine that is not riduculous high volume(which would be needed for a balanced routine)



    What all have you tried to stimulate your chest? I have to be insistent on saying that there has to be a better way for you to get sufficient chest stimulation without this amount of chest volume
    I have several different "days".. I have 2 glycogen depletion days that consist of chest/delts/tris/forearms/traps and another that consists of legs/back/calves. I do roughly 12 sets for each bodypart with the exception of bis/tris/calves/forearms/traps that get less.. Reps are in the 15-18rep range with no more than 60 seconds between sets.

    I then have 2 full body days that consist of 4-5 sets per bodypart and the workout takes about an hour to an hour and a half, again depending on how much I'm talking. Normally when I forget my mp3s is when it takes forever because people come up and talk to me.

    I then have my high calorie 3 day split consisting of ::

    chest/biceps/traps/forearms
    back/delts/traps/forearms/calves
    legs/triceps/calves

    To answer each of your questions:::

    Is each and every set intense and heavy? yes
    Do you do an equal amount of pulling? no, I've dropped my pulling down about 4 sets compared to everything else, my back grows like a weed, I need to even out..
    Equal amount of Vertical pushing and pulling? yes, maybe a tad more pushing, but like I said, I don't want to focus on my back as much right now
    Not neglect your legs? correct


    Agreed it is alot of volume, but I've tried less and I just don't respond to it. There are a few people from the forums that I've trained with and nearly everyone in my journal tells me how ridiculous my volume is. I wish my body would respond to less but I'm just not happy with myself if I leave without doing what I know that my body will respond to. When I was on steroids I was hitting 22-26 sets PER bodypart and grew like a ****ing weed.. now that I'm off and have been off for 3+ years, its pretty obvious that I can't utilize that kind of volume anymore. At my largest and leanest I was 230 @ 9% bodyfat = 209lb LBM. At my largest 270 @ 20+% bodyfat = 220lbs LBM. Right now I'm 254 @ 14% bodyfat = 218lbs LBM and I've been off the juice for 3+ years.

    I've tried 8-10 sets per bodypart per week, and the muscle gain is minor. I need that higher volume and I'm mentally not happy without it as well.
    Jake Sullivan
    6' - 280lbs - 29yrs old - Professional Highland Games Athlete
    curently off-season
    HG training log = road to pro
    youtube channel = www.youtube.com/xtra0t

  19. #18
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    that is crazy that you can handle that kind of volume.
    Sarvamangalam!

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