The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Its no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    Question for westsiders

    I found this while looking around.

    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/we...te-469668.html

    Seems pretty basic and would work for me. Is there anything you guys would change that was proposed in this routine?

    They also say "Max effort work must fall within 3-5 lifts at or above 90% of that day." What does this mean? I must have 3 sets at or above 90%? For max effort I always thought one just works up to a 1-5 rep max.

    My next question is, what are some good cycles that I can do for my max effort movements?

    For bench I was thinking
    1) Flat
    2) Incline
    3) 2 board

    And for lower
    1) Squat
    2) Rackpulls
    3) Deadlift

    Or something along these lines. I am new to this so any input would be grand!

    EDIT: Also, what are the rep ranged you guys use for all the accessory triceps and movements such as triceps and hams. In the article it says to have one intense day and one low intense day. Same goes for hams, back... should I keep the reps high or low?
    Last edited by BFGUITAR; 06-11-2008 at 11:08 PM.

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  3. #2
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    Well, if you do 2 main heavy/ME lifts (say flat bench and boards or something), you will maybe warm up to and hit a 90% for a single, then go up to a 105% or something like that or try to get a new max lift (or max 3 rep lift, something like that). Thats 2 there then just do it again on the next lift.
    3 Max effort moves in one day might be quite a bit though. I would start with two and see how it goes before bumping up to or starting out at 3.
    For the accessory work I like most of it higher rep mostly for hypertrophy reasons (for me). Its really whatever you feel you need the work on the most is what it is there for.

    EDIT: 90% to 105% might be a pretty big jump (on a 400 deadlift it would be like what 360 then jumping to 420?), so it might even be like, w/u to 335, 375, 410 or something like that, and you still get your 2 above 90%. Personally I have not followed that rule to the point of actually paying attention to it and have had awesome gains with westside. It was always just work up to a heavy max, be it 1 2 or 3 reps, and then do another max lift same way then move on to accessory work. It may have just so happened that out final warm ups fell into that range.
    Last edited by Reko; 06-11-2008 at 11:25 PM.

  4. #3
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    Thanks for the clarification!
    One thing I seemed to have messed up on last time I tried Westside was how obsessed I was with the one rep max. I think I will go for 3 rep maxes from now on.

  5. #4
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    For board presses we usually hit a 3 rep max then we go down to singles after that, so in a sense boards count as two if you do it that way. a PR is a PR. Just don't forget to keep changing up the exercises.

    Hopefully some of the actual westside lifters can confirm this stuff. It's worked for me if it's any consolation.

  6. #5
    Wannabebig Member
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    There's a ton of articles on this, check out the westside website or elitefts. I'm pretty sure you take your ME lift for that day and warmup, then hit a 1RM, and make sure you do 3-5 singles at or above 90%, I'd suggest 3 to start with. For example, you could go, 50%x5, 60x3, 70x3, 80x1, 90x1, 100x1, 95x1. Then move on to your supplemental and accessory movements. However, if you are just starting out you should most likely only do 3-4 lifts on each day and should only switch your ME movement every 2-3 weeks. You'll need to experiment a bit to find out what works best for you. As far as ME Upper exercise selection goes, if you're a raw lifter pick four:
    stick with cambered bar for a 5RM, 1 board, 2 board, manpon, incline, floor press.
    and for lower: do low box squat, opposite stance deadlift, GM's up to 3rm, rack pulls, pulls off blocks, SS bar box squat, camber bar box squats. A lot of times the crappy gym wont have the specialty bars, so either buy your own or you'll have to work around it

    here are some better articles: ok I can't put links in because i dont post enough but I'll pm them to you if you want.

    Hope this helps, I'm by no means an expert but I believe I grasp the concept pretty well.

  7. #6
    Wannabebig Member
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    oh, i can't send PM' either awesome

  8. #7
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    For Bench you've got

    -straight weight
    - varying band tensions full range
    - varying band tensions on boards
    - straight weight on boards
    - cambered bar - i wouldn't go any lower than a 2brd on cambered bar

    ME Lower
    -free squat
    - box squats at varying heights
    - varying band tensions for box and free squats
    - good mornings
    - buffalo bar squats
    - saftey squat bar
    - rack pulls
    - deadlift
    - pulls against bands

    Really the list can go on and on, its up to your imagination.


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  9. #8
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    Thanks guys!

    I have the ME lifts under control now... but for accessory lifting! How should my set/rep scheme go? You guys say higher reps for hypertrophy but ultimately it's up to me? I'm going to give this some thought.

  10. #9
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    That or whatever is weak and needs to be brought up.

  11. #10
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    Ok this is what I came up with

    DE bench
    8x3 Flat speed work (I dont have bands, 3 reps in 3 seconds!)
    3x5 Heavy triceps work (close grip BP, 2 board)
    3x5 Dumbbell shoulder press
    3x8 Row

    ME lower
    Work up to a one rep max followed by 2 singles (I never dropped it down to do singles last time I did westside, a big problem)
    1) Box squat
    2) Rackpull
    3) Squat
    4) Deadlift
    I will do each one for 2 weeks before I switch it up.

    3x5 Romanian deadlifts
    3x10 Back Raises
    3x8 Weighted crunches

    ME bench
    Same as before, work to a one rep max followed by 2 singles
    1) Floor press
    2) Incline
    3) 1 Board
    4) Flat
    Same as before, switch it up every 2 weeks. I didn't include much board work only because ALL my bench problems are off the chest. I NEVER fail much at lockout and for now I think I can do without much lockout work. Plus I have tricep day during DE bench to work on lockouts.
    3x8 Dips (triceps)
    3x8 Side raises
    3x8 Chin ups (neutral grip!)

    DE lower

    8x3 Boxsquat (speed work of course)
    3x5 GM (hits hams+lower back)
    3x8 Face pulls OR shrugs
    3x8 weighted crunches

    I may throw in some bicep curls if I really want lol. As for diet, I am recomping geared towards cutting. On ME days I will be in caloric excess. Low carbs on non workout days, and moderate-high carbs on workout days.

    What's the verdict?
    Last edited by BFGUITAR; 06-12-2008 at 05:54 PM.

  12. #11
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    for box squats and rack pulls, you can also vary the height of the box/pins to get another exercise as well. only other thing I see is only 2 lat/rowing movements. The bulk of my accessory work on upper days are triceps and back since, aside from deadlifts, they don't get a lot of direct work with the ME movements. Traps and lats are huge to getting a big bench. Face pulls, pull ups/chin ups, lat pull downs, BB rows, DB rows, H Rolls, upright rows, pull aparts when you get bands or if you have access to them, cable rows even.

    You can put these on dE lower if you feel like you will be pressed for time or worn out on the other days I would think.
    Last edited by Reko; 06-12-2008 at 10:46 AM.

  13. #12
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    I added in facepulls and/or shrugs on DE lower day.

    Any other takers?

  14. #13
    T.J.W. nhlfan's Avatar
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    do some GHRs and bicep curls on your DE lower day. Don't knock the curls, they will prevent elbow problems and fill out a bench shirt (if you're a equipped presser)

    I'd probably go with higher reps on those side raises
    Last edited by nhlfan; 06-12-2008 at 06:55 PM.
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  15. #14
    Wolfy!!!!! bigbadwolfe's Avatar
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    Did not see it, are you Raw or geared?

    The Bench layout looks pretty good to me. Fortunate for I dont train my lower except once per week so I can have 2 xtra days for Back and Shoulders on there own.

    Just keep it simple and dont get to complex. Looks go so far to me.
    MONSTER MODE

  16. #15
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    Raw I have never even seen a bench shirt in my life I think lol.

  17. #16
    THE FRIDGE! thewicked's Avatar
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    i like what you've got going so far.. becareful if you go to using bands while benching. If you use bands i'd say use mini's or monster mini's and no more. Bands have a tendency to lead to injuries AND weaken everything below lockout if used too much. So the more free weight you use versus the bands when you use them the better imho! Remember that's my opinion only!

    juggle that grip on your DE speed day too..wide, close grip, and comp grip to develop all the areas you can hit! Work with a weight that you can move FAST! even if it's not even close to 30-40% of your bench it's fine! I've seen more progress with using 135 than i ever did with 50% of my 1rm and I'm around 430-440 right now.

    whatever accessory movement you pick for your upper body like close grip inclines, close grip benches, close grip floor presses, board presses, whatever..consider that your tricep work and no more. Especially if you're not using... that's more than enough work for your triceps. boards and floor presses are GREAT exercises after your DE day benching imho! Find out what works best for you and hammer it away!

    as far as your lowerbody days go.. sky is the limit! everything there looks good!
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  18. #17
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    Awesome! If wolfe says it's ok I KNOW I got it made

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFGUITAR View Post
    Awesome! If wolfe says it's ok I KNOW I got it made
    Alright BF! This is almost exactly what I was going to post about, but you beat me to it. I started an ME bench day today, identical to what you have there. I've never felt better at the gym.
    6'1" 250 lbs

    310 Bench
    385 Squat
    460 Deadlift

    1155 Total (raw)

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