The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Question for the sumo deadlifters

    When I first started pulling sumo (about a year ago) I felt like I could lock out anything I got off the floor. I was lightning fast as soon as the bar got over my knees.

    While I still feel that I can lock out anything I get off the floor, it's now more just because I am stubborn and won't give up on a lift. I did some heavy triples in suit bottoms for my max effort work on Monday and the hardest part of the lift was the lockout.

    As a sumo deadlifter, what have you done to improve your lockout?
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

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  3. #2
    Senior Member jtteg_x's Avatar
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    do you have any video that shows your weakness of the pull?

    everyone is different and would hate to give the universal advice

  4. #3
    Wannabebig Member David_HoffWSBB's Avatar
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    train conventional to strengthen your hips and ass, pull conventional off mats , heavy rack pulls , i only pull sumo for speed pulls after i squat.

  5. #4
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Here are my lifts from nationals. Looking back at it now, it really looks like my back is rounding off the floor which explains the hard lockout.

    David, I haven't been incorporating the things you suggested in to my program as much as I should be. When you do rack pulls do you do them with a conventional stance? I tried some last night sumo stance and they felt really really awkward.



    Video
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  6. #5
    GFH Lones Green's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_HoffWSBB View Post
    train conventional to strengthen your hips and ass, pull conventional off mats , heavy rack pulls , i only pull sumo for speed pulls after i squat.
    great tips! i like band abduction and hip work to help strengthen my sumo DL as well. as david said, i've also noticed since i've started training both sumo AND conventional my pulls have gone up.
    23 years old
    6'3, 308 lbs

    825 Squat
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    645 Deadlift
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  7. #6
    Senior Member jtteg_x's Avatar
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    your pulls look great. the very minor things i can notice is that your hips come up faster than the bar does and are you pushing your hips out at lockout? One of my trainers noticed me doing this few months back.

    the things i did to help lockout were heavy rack pulls (sumo) and power shrugs with my legs wider. only time i pull conventional is for speed work. id be down to do heavy conventional pulling but my lower back would fry.


    edit: band abduction? how are those done?
    Last edited by jtteg_x; 07-05-2008 at 11:20 AM.

  8. #7
    GFH Lones Green's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtteg_x View Post
    your pulls look great. the very minor things i can notice is that your hips come up faster than the bar does and are you pushing your hips out at lockout? One of my trainers noticed me doing this few months back.

    the things i did to help lockout were heavy rack pulls (sumo) and power shrugs with my legs wider. only time i pull conventional is for speed work. id be down to do heavy conventional pulling but my lower back would fry.


    edit: band abduction? how are those done?
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=wnVzawVRstE

    double a light band, do it in an X, whatever works
    23 years old
    6'3, 308 lbs

    825 Squat
    470 Bench
    645 Deadlift
    1905 total
    www.atlargenutrition.com

  9. #8
    Senior Member
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    Try setting the weight on a 3-4 inch box and pull it, its MUCH better than a rack pull as the bar gets a true flex. Also, wide stance pull throughs, heavy gms and abs, dont neglect heavy upper back work as that can keep you from rounding. Technique is VITAL as well, hips down.

    Semper Fi

  10. #9
    GFH Lones Green's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SGT ROCK View Post
    Try setting the weight on a 3-4 inch box and pull it, its MUCH better than a rack pull as the bar gets a true flex. Also, wide stance pull throughs, heavy gms and abs, dont neglect heavy upper back work as that can keep you from rounding. Technique is VITAL as well, hips down.

    Semper Fi
    ^take this advice, he knows what hes talking about!
    23 years old
    6'3, 308 lbs

    825 Squat
    470 Bench
    645 Deadlift
    1905 total
    www.atlargenutrition.com

  11. #10
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonesXedge View Post
    great tips! i like band abduction and hip work to help strengthen my sumo DL as well. as david said, i've also noticed since i've started training both sumo AND conventional my pulls have gone up.
    I've never done much for direct hip work. I might give those band abductions a shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by jtteg_x View Post
    your pulls look great. the very minor things i can notice is that your hips come up faster than the bar does and are you pushing your hips out at lockout? One of my trainers noticed me doing this few months back.

    the things i did to help lockout were heavy rack pulls (sumo) and power shrugs with my legs wider. only time i pull conventional is for speed work. id be down to do heavy conventional pulling but my lower back would fry.


    edit: band abduction? how are those done?
    I found the sumo rack pulls really weird. They didn't feel natural at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by SGT ROCK View Post
    Try setting the weight on a 3-4 inch box and pull it, its MUCH better than a rack pull as the bar gets a true flex. Also, wide stance pull throughs, heavy gms and abs, dont neglect heavy upper back work as that can keep you from rounding. Technique is VITAL as well, hips down.

    Semper Fi
    We don't have boxes at my gym that I can use for that. I will hit the pull throughs and GMs though. Abs and upper back I am already working on.

    My technique is great for the light stuff... But once it gets even remotely heavy my hips start coming up faster...
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  12. #11
    GFH Lones Green's Avatar
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    i don't like sumo rack pulls either, i usually stick to conventional. direct hip work makes my squat and deadlift feel a lot stronger.
    23 years old
    6'3, 308 lbs

    825 Squat
    470 Bench
    645 Deadlift
    1905 total
    www.atlargenutrition.com

  13. #12
    Wannabebig Member David_HoffWSBB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deeder View Post
    Here are my lifts from nationals. Looking back at it now, it really looks like my back is rounding off the floor which explains the hard lockout.

    David, I haven't been incorporating the things you suggested in to my program as much as I should be. When you do rack pulls do you do them with a conventional stance? I tried some last night sumo stance and they felt really really awkward.



    Video
    yes when you do rack pulls ONLY pull conventional you get much better range of motion and more muscle contraction do this for a couple weeks and you will notice a significant difference.

  14. #13
    Wannabebig Member David_HoffWSBB's Avatar
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    another thing start pulling your head back when you start it off the floor you jerk forward ever so slightly and that small jerk will be the difference in a PR keep the weight in close, pulling your head back will keep the bar from getting in front of you .

  15. #14
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonesXedge View Post
    i don't like sumo rack pulls either, i usually stick to conventional. direct hip work makes my squat and deadlift feel a lot stronger.
    Quote Originally Posted by David_HoffWSBB View Post
    yes when you do rack pulls ONLY pull conventional you get much better range of motion and more muscle contraction do this for a couple weeks and you will notice a significant difference.
    Ok will do. Conventional rack pulls feel so much more natural.

    Quote Originally Posted by David_HoffWSBB View Post
    another thing start pulling your head back when you start it off the floor you jerk forward ever so slightly and that small jerk will be the difference in a PR keep the weight in close, pulling your head back will keep the bar from getting in front of you .
    Ok, I see what you mean. I will try to fix that.
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  16. #15
    Squat Heavy, Squat Often Cards's Avatar
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    as for the 4-5 inch box, you could set the weight on some flat plates to create the desired height assuming the gym doesn't have the boxes. I've seen a few people do this, just an idea.
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