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Thread: History

  1. #1
    Dead Sexy Member
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    History

    I think it's important to squash any myths out there, so...



    One of the biggest myths related to the Arab-Israeli Conflict is that Israel and the whole of Mandatory Palestine before it; "was stolen from the Arabs as a result of imperialist machinations and settled by alien Jews."

    The FACT is that until the defeat of the Ottoman Turkish Empire during World War I, there was no geopolitical entity called Palestine, no Arab nation lived on this land and no national claim was ever made to the territory by any group other than the Jews. Palestine, which was named so by the Roman Emperor Hadrian in an attempt to wipe out any Jewish connection, was simply a general name used for the area for historical purposes.

    1867 - Mark Twain, when visitng Palestine wrote:

    "... [a] desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but
    is given wholly over to weeds - a silent mournful
    expanse....A desolation is here that not even
    imagination can grace with the pomp of life and
    action...We never saw a human being on the whole
    route....There was hardly a tree or a schrub
    anywhere. Even the olive and the cactus, those fast
    firends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the
    country." (The Innocents Abroad)

    Between the expulsion of the Jews by Rome in 70 to 132 CE and the defeat of
    the Ottoman Empire in 1918, Palestine was occupied by fourteen conquerors
    over thirteen centuries. The following table shows the approximate historical
    periods of the various rulers of Palestine:

    1. Israel Rule (Biblical Period)
    1350 BC to 586 BC
    2. Babylonian Conquest
    587 BC to 538 BC
    3. Israel Autonomy
    (under Persian and Greco-Assyrian suzerainty)
    538 BC to 168 BC
    4. Revolt of the Maccabeans
    168 BC to 143 BC
    5. Rule of the Hasmoneans and their successors
    143 BC to 70 AD
    6. Jewish Autonomy
    (under Roman and Byzantine suzerainty)
    70 AD to 637 AD
    7. Rule of Arab Caliphates

    Mecca
    637 AD to 661 AD
    Umayyides
    661 AD to 750 AD
    Abbaside
    750 AD to 870 AD
    Fatimides
    969 AD to 1071 AD
    8. Seljukes Rule
    1072 AD to 1096 AD
    9. Crusaders
    1099 AD to 1175 AD
    Ayyubids
    1175 AD to 1291 AD
    10 . Mamelukes Rule
    1291 AD to 1516 AD
    11. Ottomans (Turks)
    1516 AD to 1918 AD
    12. British Mandate
    1918 AD to 1948 AD


    Thus, during the whole period of recorded history Palestine was never rules by the Arabs
    of Palestine. The rule of the Arab Caliphates, which was a foreign Muslim rule, extended
    for a period of 432 years - Jewish rule extended over a period of some 2000 years.

    The inhabitants of the region consisted of their conquering soldiers and their slaves and only during
    the Muslim conquest of the area were these diverse ethnic inhabitants compelled to accept Islam
    and the Arab tongue or be put to the sword. The Jews in fact are the sole survivors of the ancient
    inhabitants of Palestine who have maintained an uninterrupted link with the land since the dawn of
    recorded history.

    ARABS RECOGNIZE JEWISH SOVEREIGNTY

    This fact was recognized in 1919 at the Allied Peace Conference in Paris to which
    representatives of the Middle East Arab and Jewish Peoples were invited. At this conference,
    Feisal, son of King Hussein, who headed the Arab delegation, agreed that Palestine should be
    earmarked as the specific area in which Jewish sovereignty was to mature.

    He announced acceptance of the Balfour Declaration of Nov. 2, 197 and concluded an agreement
    with the World Zionist Organization, confirming that "all measures shall be adopted as will
    afford the fullest guarantee of carrying into effect the British Government's Balfour
    Declaration." These sentiments were expressed by Emir Feisal in a letter to prof. Felix
    Frankfurter, Justice of the United States Supreme Court;

    "Our deputation here in Paris is fully acquainted with the proposals submitted by the
    Zionist Organization to the Peace Conference and we regard them as modest and
    proper. We will do our best, insofar as we are concerned, to help them through, we
    will wish the Jews a most hearty welcome home." (March 3, 1919)

    This letter followed the agreement signed on January 3, 1919, by Emir Feisal and Dr. Weizman.
    Its first article stated:

    "The Arab States and Palestine in all their relations and undertakings shall be
    controlled by the most cordial goodwill and understanding, and to this end Arab and
    Jewish duly accredited agents shall be established and maintained in the respective
    territories."

    JEWISH AREAS REDUCED

    Two promises were indeed made by Britain - one to the Arab peoples and the other to the Jews -
    but completely reconcilable ones.

    The interesting historical fact is that between World War I and the United Nations partition of
    Palestine in 1947, British promises to the Arabs were over-fulfilled while their promises to the
    Jews were constantly violated and whittled down. Far from being the victim of imperialism, the
    Arab were handsomely rewarded by it when their sovereign states were established from above
    by the carving up of the former Turkish Empire. This took place without the direct involvement of
    the Arab peoples in the form of national movements as had been the case for example in Europe
    in the end of the 19th century.

    The development of the part of historic Palestine allocated by the major Powers for Jewish
    sovereignty took a different course. The area originally designated and agreed to by Hussein and
    Feisal, was first reduced by four-fifths, on which the British established the Emirate of Transjordan
    (now Jordan). It was then reduced further by United Nations partition plan that designated a
    substantial portion of this remaining fifth of Palestine as an independent Palestinian Arab state.
    Thus in 1948, the State of Israel which came into being consisted of less than 8,000 square miles.
    Against this, five Arab States - SYRIA, LEBANON, SAUDI ARABIA, JORDAN and IRAQ
    covered an area of 1,200,00 square miles.

    It was on the remaining one-fifth that the British Mandate of Palestine was established, and Britain
    was charged by the League of Nations with the task of fostering the development of the Jewish
    national home through unrestricted Jewish immigration and land settlement. It should be pointed
    out here that at that time over 70% of the country was Crown lands transferred from the outgoing
    Ottoman Empire to the incoming British Mandatory Authority. the remaining 30% of land were
    largely swamp and barren hillside: It was in these areas that Jewish settlement began through land
    purchase of absentee Arab landowners. nowhere did the Jews seek to displace any indigenous
    population.

    The distribution of land in 1949 in the part of Palestine now Israel, between Arabs and Jews was
    as follows:

    8.6 % of the land was owned by Jews.
    3.3% of the land was owned by Israeli Arabs.
    16.5 % of the land was owned by Arabs who fled.
    70% of the land was the property of the British Mandatory Government now the property
    of the State of Israel

    Under the Mandate, of the Jewish population continued to grow but while their immigration was
    progressively restricted, that of Arabs from the surrounding countries (Syria and Jordan) was
    completely free. As a result, attracted by the Jewish development of the country, the Arab
    population increased rapidly and had attained majority by 1947.

    PALESTINE ARABS NEVER A NATION

    Palestine Arab nationalism to whatever degree it is a conscious ideal today, is a product of recent
    political currents. Until the 1920's no such national community had even existed in Palestine. This
    is why both the Balfour Declaration and the League of Nations Mandate charged the Jews of the
    National home with guaranteeing the civil and religious rights of other inhabitants. No mention was
    made of other national rights of the other inhabitants. No mention was made of other national
    rights as it recognized that the only national claim to the area was that made by the Jews. But the
    fiction of Palestine Arab nationality is still being exploited. If the Palestinians were in fact a
    separate nationality, then their anger over the past 40 years would have been directed as much
    against Jordan and Egypt as against Israel, for it was the invading armies of these countries which
    captured in the 1948 war a substantial portion of the territory under the United Nations partition
    plan to the Palestine Arabs. This included the West Bank, which was occupied by the Jordanian
    Army and added to their Kingdom, and the Gaza Strip, which was seized by the Egyptians.

    The one people that have in fact maintained its historic and religious connection with the area
    called Palestina, over a period of 2,000 years, is the Jews. Their right to the land is not only based on history and sentiment but is claimed by the physical process of the work invested in
    transforming it into an area capable of supporting life. it is the fruits of this work that motivate
    mythological Arab claims to the Land of Israel.

  2. #2
    Forsaken by Destiny jell999's Avatar
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    Interesting place to post this...
    Push the envelope/Watch it bend.

  3. #3
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Good read though.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
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    Budiak: heh maced
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    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  4. #4
    Forsaken by Destiny jell999's Avatar
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    Dont get me wrong, it is a good read.
    I just think it may be in the wrong forum.
    Push the envelope/Watch it bend.

  5. #5
    Forsaken by Destiny jell999's Avatar
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    Much better.

    I dont usually train to history lessons.
    Push the envelope/Watch it bend.

  6. #6
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
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    Why exactly did you post this here. Who are you trying to convice, and what are you trying to gain. Isnt this the reason why so many people are killing each other over there becasue one group says they have the rights to own/live their and others say the opposite. Why bring that here, what so we can "understand" who REALLY should have it. Thats great bro, but what does that accomplish.
    Diet is key, the calorie is king

    "Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."
    --Abraham Lincoln

    "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
    Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination
    alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
    Calvin Coolidge (1872-1933)
    30th U.S. President

    "If you want to look abnormal you have to eat abnormal,lol."--ST

  7. #7
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Learning is never a waste of time.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  8. #8
    Canadian Juggalo Twiztid's Avatar
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    I didn't wanna read all of that, somebody wanna sum it up in a few lines for me?
    Stay Down With The

    Runnin' with the Hatchet.. like WHUT?!?

  9. #9
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Twiztid
    I didn't wanna read all of that, somebody wanna sum it up in a few lines for me?
    Summary: ICP sux
    Last edited by PowerManDL; 03-25-2002 at 05:28 PM.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  10. #10
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
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    I wasnt saying learning is a waste of time, I was just wondering what he was trying to say. I realize the background and info was good, but it seems likes he is just bringing in that "it's ours, now get out" attitude in here and I dont think this is the place. Oh well. Also I agree with your summary.
    Diet is key, the calorie is king

    "Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."
    --Abraham Lincoln

    "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
    Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination
    alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
    Calvin Coolidge (1872-1933)
    30th U.S. President

    "If you want to look abnormal you have to eat abnormal,lol."--ST

  11. #11
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    Small and co., firstly I've seen many posts that are quite off topic in regards to bodybuilding, secondly like I already mentioned I feel it is important for misconceptions to be cleared up.

    I'm not saying Jews have a right to the land, I'm simply allowing people who don't know much about this topic to get a brief lesson in the history of the region. Many arguments made by various "intellects" are not valid, and that is what I wanted to show you guys.

  12. #12
    is no more. Orange357's Avatar
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    *passes out asprin bottle* Good post.
    ...watch me reap of what I sow....

    and BOOM goes the dynomite!

  13. #13
    Magically delicious Shane's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Orange357
    *passes out asprin bottle* Good post.
    LOL! No kidding! We could all use some of those. It was a good post Allen.
    "you are like my yoda." - chops

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  14. #14
    Dead Sexy Member
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    bump

  15. #15
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    so what about the nomad cultures that have trekked across that land for eons? are they not counted as people on the land?
    A little learning is a dangerous thing...

    Live Dangerously! Learn a Little!


    Dude, did Doogie Howser just steal my fucking car?

  16. #16
    3:16
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    just to add ireland has never been one whole country. but the IRA are fighting for a country to unite that has never existed.
    my exprience - joined gym 10 years ago, 6 1/2 years hard weight training exprience.

  17. #17
    Dead Sexy Member
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    Tryska, can you give me an example and then maybe I'll be able to answer the question better.

    Also, FYI, there are over a million Arabs living freely in Israel, which has a population well under 10 million.

  18. #18
    3:16
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    luckily my nieghbour hood is not considered holy land.
    my exprience - joined gym 10 years ago, 6 1/2 years hard weight training exprience.

  19. #19
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    of nomadic tribes that have used that land for eons?

    there are several. the bible makes reference to them, there are various groups that tend to fall under the blanket description of bedouins etc.

    basically it's these dis-enfranchised peoplke who are no longer nomads for whatever reason, who have become muslim, and imo have reason to feel they have been displaced by the creation of Israel.
    A little learning is a dangerous thing...

    Live Dangerously! Learn a Little!


    Dude, did Doogie Howser just steal my fucking car?

  20. #20
    Senior Member hemants's Avatar
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    Politics aside, there is little doubt that Palistineans were ethnically cleansed from their homes.

    As I understand it, the right of return has always been one of the sticky points for a peace agreement.

    History is never without bias - it's better to think of the future. One that includes a Palistine and an Israel.
    If the only thing you are holding is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

  21. #21
    Dead Sexy Member
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    ummm, see, I feel you're both quite wrong.

    Look at the Middle East, there is Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran etc. and then there's Israel. A tiny state which one can drive through in about 5 hours. There is about 8 million people living in the land, over a million being Arabs. How many Jews are living in the neighbouring Arab lands? None, they were driven out of their. Now that's is what I consider cleansing. In any event, if you read my first post, the Palestinians were offered half of Israel but did not accept, the Jews on the other hand were ready to accept the offer.

    If you have anymore arguement/questions, go right ahead and ask.

  22. #22
    Senior Member hemants's Avatar
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    "70% of the land was the property of the British Mandatory Government now the property of the State of Israel"

    Both the Palistineans and the British troops were ousted from this area by Jewish terrorists.

    It's no wonder that the lunatics in Palistine believe that terrorism actually works in some cases. History has shown them that it does
    If the only thing you are holding is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

  23. #23
    Dead Sexy Member
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    lol, are you kidding me?

    Learn your history buddy.

  24. #24
    Senior Member hemants's Avatar
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    Which history?

    The Jewish version?
    The Palistinean version?
    or the British version?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    If the only thing you are holding is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

  25. #25
    Dead Sexy Member
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    Funny.

    Question for you.

    Do you think the Inidnas have the right to threaten to kick out every Canadian and American that isn't of Indian decent?

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