The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
Latest Article

The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
More Recent Articles
Contrast Training for Size
By: Lee Boyce
An Interview with Marianne Kane of Girls Gone Strong
By: Jordan Syatt
What Supplements Should I be Taking? By: Jay Wainwright
Bench Like a Girl By: Julia Ladewski
Some Thoughts on Building a Big Pull By: Christopher Mason

Facebook Join Facebook Group       Twitter Follow on Twitter       rss Subscribe via RSS
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 123
  1. #51
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    7,850
    Originally posted by gopro
    Sorry Maki...I forgot...you see I totally believe you CAN selectively target certain areas of a muscle and its motor units which I further believe will elicit more growth in that area.

    When you can explain HOW this is possible, I'd be a lot more inclined to listen. I've yet to hear any valid or plausible explanation for this supposed phenomenon.

    If you didn't believe that on some level you wouldn't bother doing more than one exercise per bodypart. Why ever do an incline press if it does the same or less for chest than bench press. Why do a flye, a cable crossover?


    To develop strength perhaps? To prevent psychological stagnation? To provide stimulation to one muscle over another?
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  2. #52
    Geordie The_Chicken_Daddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Grace
    Posts
    6,187
    I do them to aid my presses.

    I explained this on your board.
    "Geordie/'d3c:di/n. & adj. Brit colloq. n. 1 a native of Tyneside. 2 the dialect spoken on Tyneside. adj. of or relating to Tyneside, its people, or its dialect. [the name George + -IE]

  3. #53
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Vancouver, B.C.
    Posts
    5,324
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by PowerManDL
    Originally posted by gopro
    Sorry Maki...I forgot...you see I totally believe you CAN selectively target certain areas of a muscle and its motor units which I further believe will elicit more growth in that area.

    When you can explain HOW this is possible, I'd be a lot more inclined to listen. I've yet to hear any valid or plausible explanation for this supposed phenomenon.

    *** Can you explain how it is possible? To selectively recruit certain motor units over others?


    If you didn't believe that on some level you wouldn't bother doing more than one exercise per bodypart. Why ever do an incline press if it does the same or less for chest than bench press. Why do a flye, a cable crossover?


    *** Like I mentioned, for bodybuilding purposes it is efective to use a wide variety so more fibres are targetted. Different angles means more fibres. But, different angles doesn't mean you are targetting specific motor units more than other ones.
    Maki Fit Blog

    At Large: Optimize Your Body | Dynamic Conditioning |
    My articles on Wannabebig

    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

  4. #54
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    339
    Originally posted by PowerManDL
    Originally posted by gopro
    Sorry Maki...I forgot...you see I totally believe you CAN selectively target certain areas of a muscle and its motor units which I further believe will elicit more growth in that area.

    When you can explain HOW this is possible, I'd be a lot more inclined to listen. I've yet to hear any valid or plausible explanation for this supposed phenomenon.

    If you didn't believe that on some level you wouldn't bother doing more than one exercise per bodypart. Why ever do an incline press if it does the same or less for chest than bench press. Why do a flye, a cable crossover?


    To develop strength perhaps? To prevent psychological stagnation? To provide stimulation to one muscle over another?
    Power...you can provide studies proving your point and so can I. There is research on both sides. But screw the research! I see what happens right in front of my eyes...this is what truly makes me believe. Besides science can be quite silly...scientists used to say that steroids don't work...what a joke!

    Chicken...I've heard quite enough from you...tits.

  5. #55
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    339
    [i]
    *** Like I mentioned, for bodybuilding purposes it is efective to use a wide variety so more fibres are targetted. Different angles means more fibres. But, different angles doesn't mean you are targetting specific motor units more than other ones. [/B]
    You know Maki...I don't think Paul would agree with this statement...

  6. #56
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Vancouver, B.C.
    Posts
    5,324
    Originally posted by gopro


    Power...you can provide studies proving your point and so can I. There is research on both sides. But screw the research! I see what happens right in front of my eyes...this is what truly makes me believe. Besides science can be quite silly...scientists used to say that steroids don't work...what a joke!

    Chicken...I've heard quite enough from you...tits.
    *** You keep talking about how you can provide research. I would be very interested in seeing some.
    You must have a keen eye to notice these changes. It's funny how one can shape a muscle so that it brings about a symmetry but one can't overly shape a muscle.
    Maki Fit Blog

    At Large: Optimize Your Body | Dynamic Conditioning |
    My articles on Wannabebig

    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

  7. #57
    Geordie The_Chicken_Daddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Grace
    Posts
    6,187
    Originally posted by gopro


    Power...you can provide studies proving your point and so can I. There is research on both sides. But screw the research! I see what happens right in front of my eyes...this is what truly makes me believe. Besides science can be quite silly...scientists used to say that steroids don't work...what a joke!

    Yep, lets totally screw the sole basis for your argument and the one thing that has maybe kept some people vaguely on your side of this debate.

    You've just totally dismissed it, so i think everyone else can now...
    "Geordie/'d3c:di/n. & adj. Brit colloq. n. 1 a native of Tyneside. 2 the dialect spoken on Tyneside. adj. of or relating to Tyneside, its people, or its dialect. [the name George + -IE]

  8. #58
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Vancouver, B.C.
    Posts
    5,324
    Originally posted by gopro


    You know Maki...I don't think Paul would agree with this statement...
    *** That's not the point. The point is that you can't shape a muscle. From a scientific point of view it's not possible. We are talking about scientific laws that dictate whether or not we can change the shape of our muscles. They can't be broken.
    Period.
    Maki Fit Blog

    At Large: Optimize Your Body | Dynamic Conditioning |
    My articles on Wannabebig

    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

  9. #59
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    Posts
    12,590
    Originally posted by gopro


    Ok, thanks..didn't see your post. Hmmmmm...interesting. There is a tad variation between you, Paul, Maki, and Powerman. Just a tad.

    So, you guys all feel that the millions of bodybuilders in this world are truly wasting their time doing a variety of exercises for each bodypart. Everyone could really just pick one movement for each bodypart and build a competition worthy physique?

    If they didn't quit because of boredom, the exercises they chose optimized their unique anatomy, they used progressive resistance, and they varied their reps a bit, then yes, I think they would have roughly the same net physique whether they use 1 exercise per bodypart, or 5. As for volume (# of sets), I believe that a trainee will maximize progress using as much volume as possible while still being able to recover and (hopefully) supercompensate. Depending on multiple factors, this could be a single set for one person, and 5 or more for another (although very few natural trainees would benefit from more than 5 sets).

    You feel that different exercises will alter shape. I cannot think of one professional bodybuilder who has altered the shape (not size) of his muscles in his career, can you?

  10. #60
    Meathead Philosopher Pup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    6,793
    Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy



    Yep, lets totally screw the sole basis for your argument and the one thing that has maybe kept some people vaguely on your side of this debate.

    You've just totally dismissed it, so i think everyone else can now...
    :withstupi
    May you be in heaven an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

  11. #61
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    7,850
    Gopro, irregardless of the fact that you want to believe what you see over research, which is good in some cases but can easily be skewed by personal perceptions, you've never posted any solid research backing that statement up. You claim to have it, but besides those misleading EMG studies, I haven't seen anything.

    I've been looking for any studies backing up what you say for quite some time, and have yet to come across any. I'm willing to bet my resources in that respect are quite a bit more extensive than yours, as well.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  12. #62
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    339
    Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy



    Yep, lets totally screw the sole basis for your argument and the one thing that has maybe kept some people vaguely on your side of this debate.

    You've just totally dismissed it, so i think everyone else can now...
    Chicken...you know what is really funny. Aside from a select few people on this board, the majority of the lifting world IS on my side of the debate. But I don't care what you, Maki, Paul, Chris, or Powerman thinks about me or my methods. What if Arnold and Franco and Lou listened to the genius scientists that stated that steroids have no effect on muscle growth...they said screw the science and took their roids and grew like weeds!

    Whatever guys, I know I won't change your minds...like I said once before...even if I posted scientific studies to back me, you guys would say it was false or flawed or whatever. Only your studies are correct. Hell, this happened when I mentioned type II D fibers in humans. Everyone said...nope, don't exist in humans! But someone....forgot who...posted something a scientist said about humans having them...and that was simply dismissed!

    Anyway, I will continue to let my professional and personal success speak for itself. I have proven myself to those that matter. I will speak the truth about bodybuilding and simply ignore most of the think-they-know-it-alls on this board...which really is just a select few. The rest are extremely nice and willing to learn from someone besides...well, you know who...

  13. #63
    Geordie The_Chicken_Daddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Grace
    Posts
    6,187
    So post the studies and we'll make our own minds up.

    And the studies you posted about type IId fibres were done on rats, not humans.
    "Geordie/'d3c:di/n. & adj. Brit colloq. n. 1 a native of Tyneside. 2 the dialect spoken on Tyneside. adj. of or relating to Tyneside, its people, or its dialect. [the name George + -IE]

  14. #64
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    7,850
    Originally posted by gopro


    Chicken...you know what is really funny. Aside from a select few people on this board, the majority of the lifting world IS on my side of the debate. But I don't care what you, Maki, Paul, Chris, or Powerman thinks about me or my methods. What if Arnold and Franco and Lou listened to the genius scientists that stated that steroids have no effect on muscle growth...they said screw the science and took their roids and grew like weeds!


    This has descended into pure idiocy. The majority of the lifting world also believes they can tone doing high reps with pink dumbells, that the ab-doer will build a six pack with 5 minutes a day, and that the bench press and curl are the only required exercises. The opinions of the majority of the lifting world mean jack squat to me or in fact to this debate.

    Whatever guys, I know I won't change your minds...like I said once before...even if I posted scientific studies to back me, you guys would say it was false or flawed or whatever. Only your studies are correct. Hell, this happened when I mentioned type II D fibers in humans. Everyone said...nope, don't exist in humans! But someone....forgot who...posted something a scientist said about humans having them...and that was simply dismissed!


    I said they don't exist in humans, because they don't. The one page that did mention them was on Muscle & Fitness' site, and the references it quoted were dubious at best, being done on rats. The *prevailing* mentality is that they aren't in humans. Much like the prevailing belief is that you can't shape a muscle. At least among those of us that go by more than what we can see and try to rationalize it with half-ass science.

    Anyway, I will continue to let my professional and personal success speak for itself. I have proven myself to those that matter. I will speak the truth about bodybuilding and simply ignore most of the think-they-know-it-alls on this board...which really is just a select few. The rest are extremely nice and willing to learn from someone besides...well, you know who...


    Knock yourself out. I'll keep correcting you when you post flawed info. I expect to keep busy.
    Last edited by PowerManDL; 03-27-2002 at 05:43 PM.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  15. #65
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    339
    Originally posted by PowerManDL
    Gopro, irregardless of the fact that you want to believe what you see over research, which is good in some cases but can easily be skewed by personal perceptions, you've never posted any solid research backing that statement up. You claim to have it, but besides those misleading EMG studies, I haven't seen anything.

    I've been looking for any studies backing up what you say for quite some time, and have yet to come across any. I'm willing to bet my resources in that respect are quite a bit more extensive than yours, as well.
    Why the hell would you think your resources would be more extensive than mine? Who do you think you are? And you have no clue who I am. That was a dumb statement Powerman, and one totally without basis.

  16. #66
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    339
    And Powerman, I will continue to correct you my friend! The more you speak, the more limited I see your knowledge is.

  17. #67
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    7,850
    Originally posted by gopro


    That was a dumb statement Powerman, and one totally without basis.
    I can eat the irony with a fork.

    As for my resources, I think you'd be quite surprised at the information I have access to.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  18. #68
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    7,850
    Originally posted by gopro
    And Powerman, I will continue to correct you my friend! The more you speak, the more limited I see your knowledge is.
    I'm deeply saddened that you don't think I'm knowledgable. I really am. But it will be quite hard to correct me with "I saw this guy in the gym build a peak in his bicep by doing concentration curls."
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  19. #69
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    Posts
    12,590
    Actually, I thought that Delphi posted something showing that fiber types in humans. Hey, if somone proves me wrong, I will freely admit it, and have (by the way, you will note I did not get involved in that argument). Gopro, you sure seem to devote a lot of energy to proving myself and the others wrong. If you mean what you say, then do it. Like I said some time back, if you post something I think is wrong, I will note it. I am not rude about it. In this thread, you asked for my opinion, and I gave it. Period.

  20. #70
    Geordie The_Chicken_Daddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Grace
    Posts
    6,187
    Originally posted by gopro
    And Powerman, I will continue to correct you my friend!
    I have yet to see you correct anyone with an answer anything more than "it worked for me".
    "Geordie/'d3c:di/n. & adj. Brit colloq. n. 1 a native of Tyneside. 2 the dialect spoken on Tyneside. adj. of or relating to Tyneside, its people, or its dialect. [the name George + -IE]

  21. #71
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    339
    Originally posted by chris mason
    Actually, I thought that Delphi posted something showing that fiber types in humans. Hey, if somone proves me wrong, I will freely admit it, and have (by the way, you will note I did not get involved in that argument). Gopro, you sure seem to devote a lot of energy to proving myself and the others wrong. If you mean what you say, then do it. Like I said some time back, if you post something I think is wrong, I will note it. I am not rude about it. In this thread, you asked for my opinion, and I gave it. Period.
    Chris, you were not rude at all. You were quite the gentleman. I will continue to preach my methods. The problem is everytime I do, I get jumped on. Now the dfference is that I don't agree with much of what you, Paul, Power, Chicken, and Maki say, but instead of arguing, I just post my opinion without saying you or anyone else is wrong. I just let them read what I have to say and decide for themselves. I don't attack, unless attacked first.

    Thank you for your opinion. And yes, it was Delphi...thanks.

    Power...youd also be suprised what I have access to. And I'm sorry you are saddened by the fact that I think your knowledge is limited. I'm sure you'll get over it with time and therapy.

  22. #72
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    7,850
    All I want is the studies. You claim to have them, so post them instead of whining about how we'll just pick on you.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  23. #73
    Hmmmm..... Spiderman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Near the bay...
    Posts
    0
    Originally posted by gopro
    ...you see I totally believe you CAN selectively target certain areas of a muscle and its motor units which I further believe will elicit more growth in that area.

    If you didn't believe that on some level you wouldn't bother doing more than one exercise per bodypart. Why ever do an incline press if it does the same or less for chest than bench press. Why do a flye, a cable crossover?
    Well $hit... I"m sorry I missed this. Too bad I just got to see the thread... everythings pretty much already been said so
    I'll say... :withstupi

    "Success is never behind you, it is always, always in front of you."

  24. #74
    Geordie The_Chicken_Daddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Grace
    Posts
    6,187
    haha, your "opinion".

    What's happend to all these studies you were referring to that you still haven't posted yet. Show us anything! A link, a title, a flex magazine quote - ANYTHING!

    Just anything that vaguely strays away from opinion and relates closer to fact or proof.
    "Geordie/'d3c:di/n. & adj. Brit colloq. n. 1 a native of Tyneside. 2 the dialect spoken on Tyneside. adj. of or relating to Tyneside, its people, or its dialect. [the name George + -IE]

  25. #75
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    0
    Seriously Gopro,
    the reason no one is willing to sway to your side is you have given no evidence to do so. What pro has changed the shape of one of their muscles. Give us something to see or believe ourselves instead of your hothead remarks about your 16 years of "seeing" this happen. You started this thread just to get the response you were looking for and then rebuked(sp) it by saying "well you are wrong". Come on.
    Diet is key, the calorie is king

    "Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."
    --Abraham Lincoln

    "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
    Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination
    alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
    Calvin Coolidge (1872-1933)
    30th U.S. President

    "If you want to look abnormal you have to eat abnormal,lol."--ST

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •