The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
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    DeadLifting Myths

    Is this a myth or not?

    Could some of the very, very experienced lifters tell me if long term deadlifting has done any injuries to their backs.

    Every bloke down my gym no matter how big and how long they lift does not do deadlifts because they are scared of injuring their back.

    I do deadlifts with pretty good form but when I 1RM they are not perfect.

    I also do not use a belt should I get one?
    Last edited by alex11012; 10-17-2008 at 09:23 PM.

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  3. #2
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    "Show me a completely safe exercise, I'll show you and ineffective exercise"

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigTallOx View Post
    "Show me a completely safe exercise, I'll show you and ineffective exercise"
    I agree safe exercises are ineffective and I deadlift a lot. I just want an indicator if I'm going mess up my back and if a belt and other equipment will help stop this.

  5. #4
    needs more food Mosnar's Avatar
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    nice Louie Simmons quote.

    I actually have a question. Has anyone here ever injured themselves doing the rounded upper back/chest sink (kind of like Konstantinovs)? Just asking because my deadlift is much stronger using this form.
    Currently: 6'3", 220#, 295/235/430

    Goals (for now): 230#, 355/260/445

    Some time in the distant future: 275#, 750/500/750

  6. #5
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    A belt will help you stay tight. Some will argue you won't get an effective core workout with a belt, but ya know what, I'd rather stay tight through the lift than pull something. I've suffered 2 back injuries, both caused by deadlifting. Both were caused my improper form and my stupidity. If you listen to your body, you use correct form, you can avoid injuries. Yes, deadlifting caused me injuries, but it was only because I did the exercise wrong.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by butcher2 View Post
    If you listen to your body, you use correct form, you can avoid injuries. Yes, deadlifting caused me injuries, but it was only because I did the exercise wrong.
    Sarvamangalam!

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMonkey View Post

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by butcher2 View Post
    lol, it means he agrees with you.

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by butcher2 View Post
    A belt will help you stay tight. Some will argue you won't get an effective core workout with a belt, but ya know what, I'd rather stay tight through the lift than pull something. I've suffered 2 back injuries, both caused by deadlifting. Both were caused my improper form and my stupidity. If you listen to your body, you use correct form, you can avoid injuries. Yes, deadlifting caused me injuries, but it was only because I did the exercise wrong.
    Research by Duke University show the abdominals are used MORE when wearing a belt.

    Kenny Croxdale

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale View Post
    Research by Duke University show the abdominals are used MORE when wearing a belt.

    Kenny Croxdale
    I wasn't saying that wearing a belt gives your abdominals less of a workout. I said some people will tell you that. I take everything people say with a grain of salt.
    Last edited by butcher2; 10-19-2008 at 11:47 AM.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by butcher2 View Post
    I wasn't saying that wearing a belt gives your abdominals less of a workout. I said some people will tell you that. I take everything people say with a grain of salt.
    I didn't say that you said it. I simply posted information refuting those who might believe it.

    Kenny Croxdale

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale View Post
    abdominals are used MORE when wearing a belt.

    Absolutely! I push my abs HARD against my belt before I go down to grab the bar and I keep them that way all the way through the lift. That keeps the lower back tight, and safe.

  14. #13
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    I just hurt my back the other day on my first attempt at 375 x 5. I completed the set, but I pulled my lower leftside of my back, and it hurt for about a week. Now, if my back wasn't conditioned from squatting and deadlifting for the past 2 years, I would have been hurt much worse, but the fact that I have a strong lower back caused me to only experience a minor pull of my back.

    I'd say that you just have to be careful. Always maintain strict form, and don't try any ridiculous weights just for your ego's sake. I only take 5 lb. jumps with my deadlifting even though I'm sure my 1RM is up in the 400's.

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by brihead301 View Post
    I only take 5 lb. jumps with my deadlifting even though I'm sure my 1RM is up in the 400's.
    So, does that mean you "only take 5 lb jumps" on your 1RM, max deadlift?

    While being cautious is a good thing, you don't want to be overly conservative.

    Let you training poundage and reps guide you in your 1RM, max, selection. Over time, we all learn what our training poundage/reps will equate to on a 1RM, max lift.

    Another thing that I learned from one of the great deadlifters, Chip McCain. McCain pulled a world record in 1979 of 799 lbs at 198 lbs.

    In going over McCain's deadlift training, I noticed that McCain jumped his training weight in one session BEYOND what it should have been. McCain pulled the weight with power to spare.

    I ask McCain why he jumped BEYOND what he should have taken. McCain replied, "Because I knew that I could."

    Great athletes, at times, know what they can do. We all, to some extent, have this quality.

    Kenny Croxdale

  16. #15
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Kenny,

    Didn't always agree with everything you've said or written, but I've always enjoyed your thoughts on boards, and in articles (PLUSA, etc). Nice to see you here.

    Boris
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    Kenny,

    Didn't always agree with everything you've said or written, but I've always enjoyed your thoughts on boards, and in articles (PLUSA, etc). Nice to see you here.

    Boris


    Boris!

    I am not sure that I want to be a member of a board that you're on. It might tarnish my image...

    Where have you been?

    Kenny

  18. #17
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale View Post
    So, does that mean you "only take 5 lb jumps" on your 1RM, max deadlift?

    While being cautious is a good thing, you don't want to be overly conservative.

    Let you training poundage and reps guide you in your 1RM, max, selection. Over time, we all learn what our training poundage/reps will equate to on a 1RM, max lift.

    Another thing that I learned from one of the great deadlifters, Chip McCain. McCain pulled a world record in 1979 of 799 lbs at 198 lbs.

    In going over McCain's deadlift training, I noticed that McCain jumped his training weight in one session BEYOND what it should have been. McCain pulled the weight with power to spare.

    I ask McCain why he jumped BEYOND what he should have taken. McCain replied, "Because I knew that I could."

    Great athletes, at times, know what they can do. We all, to some extent, have this quality.

    Kenny Croxdale
    You do make sense man. I've been working in the 5 rep range, so I just add 5 lbs. each time I deadlift. I would say that I've been taking a conservative approach to it to avoid injury. I've been considering competing, so I may become more agressive if I do start to compete.

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by alex11012 View Post
    Is this a myth or not?

    Could some of the very, very experienced lifters tell me if long term deadlifting has done any injuries to their backs.

    Every bloke down my gym no matter how big and how long they lift does not do deadlifts because they are scared of injuring their back.

    I do deadlifts with pretty good form but when I 1RM they are not perfect.

    I also do not use a belt should I get one?
    This is a sport with injuries. They are a part of it. If you want safe - go "tone". Seriously though - any time you are pushing your body to the limits there are going to be injuries. Keep a check on your form, eat, rest and prehab and you'll be fine.

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Moore View Post
    This is a sport with injuries. They are a part of it. If you want safe - go "tone". Seriously though - any time you are pushing your body to the limits there are going to be injuries. Keep a check on your form, eat, rest and prehab and you'll be fine.
    I agree. However, the problem the lower back easily and quickly overtraining. It no wonder since the lower back is part of everything you do.

    The deadlift is very taxing on the lower back. The problem many lifter have is they train the deadlift too heavy, too often.

    That does not allow the lower back to recover. The lower back, any muscle group, is more prone to injury when it is tried or fatigued.

    Most train the deadlift every 7 days or even longer, once every 10-14 days.

    In working with two lifters (Mike Tronski and Phil Rivera), we found that deadlifting less often was better.

    Mike deadlifted once every 14-21 days. Phil deadlifted once a month.

    Lower back training in the week they weren't deadlifting was composed of Good Mornings and Olympic pulls.

    When it comes to deadlifting remember that a little goes a long way.

    Simmons' comment about the deadlift was, "Why do something that takes more than it gives back?" The inference was that the deadlift is a very taxing movement.

    Kenny Croxdale

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale View Post
    I agree. However, the problem the lower back easily and quickly overtraining. It no wonder since the lower back is part of everything you do.

    The deadlift is very taxing on the lower back. The problem many lifter have is they train the deadlift too heavy, too often.

    That does not allow the lower back to recover. The lower back, any muscle group, is more prone to injury when it is tried or fatigued.

    Most train the deadlift every 7 days or even longer, once every 10-14 days.

    In working with two lifters (Mike Tronski and Phil Rivera), we found that deadlifting less often was better.

    Mike deadlifted once every 14-21 days. Phil deadlifted once a month.

    Lower back training in the week they weren't deadlifting was composed of Good Mornings and Olympic pulls.

    When it comes to deadlifting remember that a little goes a long way.

    Simmons' comment about the deadlift was, "Why do something that takes more than it gives back?" The inference was that the deadlift is a very taxing movement.

    Kenny Croxdale
    good to have you here Kenny. Great thoughts.

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale View Post
    I agree. However, the problem the lower back easily and quickly overtraining. It no wonder since the lower back is part of everything you do.

    The deadlift is very taxing on the lower back. The problem many lifter have is they train the deadlift too heavy, too often.

    That does not allow the lower back to recover. The lower back, any muscle group, is more prone to injury when it is tried or fatigued.

    Most train the deadlift every 7 days or even longer, once every 10-14 days.

    In working with two lifters (Mike Tronski and Phil Rivera), we found that deadlifting less often was better.

    Mike deadlifted once every 14-21 days. Phil deadlifted once a month.

    Lower back training in the week they weren't deadlifting was composed of Good Mornings and Olympic pulls.

    When it comes to deadlifting remember that a little goes a long way.

    Simmons' comment about the deadlift was, "Why do something that takes more than it gives back?" The inference was that the deadlift is a very taxing movement.

    Kenny Croxdale
    i have been deadlifting consistently every week for the past 2 years, before when i have had back problems and back pain (probably from my scoliosis) my back has been doing allot better, (the curve has also straightened out allot.)
    I have put 127-147 lbs on my deadlift, I always lift heavy, no more then 5 reps, never felt better.
    IMO if you dont deadlift you will hurt your back.

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokinHawk View Post
    i have been deadlifting consistently every week for the past 2 years, before when i have had back problems and back pain (probably from my scoliosis) my back has been doing allot better, (the curve has also straightened out allot.)
    I have put 127-147 lbs on my deadlift, I always lift heavy, no more then 5 reps, never felt better.
    IMO if you dont deadlift you will hurt your back.
    The deadlift is not the only exercise that involves the lower back, hamstrings, glutes, etc. Good Mornings effectively work that area.

    The benefit of Good Mornings is that they are less likely to "burn out" your lower back compared to heavy deadlifts.

    As Simmons' noted about the deadlift, "Why do something that takes back more than it gives?" The inference is that the deadlift places a lot of stress on the body, the lower back.

    "Would Healing" also addresses the frequency of deadlifting. Research (common knowledge) states that the greater the injury, the longer it takes to recover.

    Due amount of stress places on the lower back, more recovery time is needed. Add in the fact is that squatting places taxes the lower back.

    That doesn't mean you shouldn't train the deadlift, it just means you need to make sure you don't overtraining it.

    Again, the key is to make sure you have rested it enough so that your lower back has recovered. Performing deadlifts when you lower has not recovered increases you chances of injury.

    You state that you "deadlift consistently every week." Does that mean you deadlift once a week? If so, that would fall into the parameters that I stated in a previous post.

    The frequence of how often you deadlift is dependent on a varitey of factors. What works for you today may not work tomorrow.

    "Everything works but nothing works forever."

    Kenny Croxdale

  24. #23
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    I alway find that when I have had a really good Dead workout my hams and glutes are burning and not my low back. That pain comes the next day.
    If it does not hurt a little is it worth doing?

  25. #24
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    Don't go by me, but I never deadlift till day of the meet. I do all the other accesorie lifts to give me the strength for the meet. My back is messed up (broke my back in 98', hurniated entire lumbar spine and 2 torn disks that almost heal but not quite) thus I save myself till day of. IE: hypers,pull-ups, bent over rows or DB rows, pull overs and grip work are my main focus to get me there. And yes I DL w/ a belt! Hope that helps..
    Run? Are you crazy? I wouln't even run for the dinner bell! I don't remember seeing running as a part of Push/Pull.

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoreFoot8343 View Post
    Don't go by me, but I never deadlift till day of the meet. I do all the other accesorie lifts to give me the strength for the meet. My back is messed up (broke my back in 98', hurniated entire lumbar spine and 2 torn disks that almost heal but not quite) thus I save myself till day of. IE: hypers,pull-ups, bent over rows or DB rows, pull overs and grip work are my main focus to get me there. And yes I DL w/ a belt! Hope that helps..
    I don't deadlift until the day of the meet, as well. I perform Good Mornings and Olympic pulls. In doing so, my deadlift went up.

    The "No Deadlift, Deadlift Training Program" goes into it. You can google it. It is a revision of Bill Starr's article, "A Different Approach To The Deadlift" and Loren Betzer's "To Deadlift More, Don't Deadlift" as well as Louie Simmon's view.

    It is hard for most lifters to fathom increasing their deadlift by not deadlifting. That was my feeling at one time.

    I gradually weened myself off deadlifting. I went from regular deadlifts to rack deadlifts, at my sticking point. I performed Olympic pulls, too.

    I dropped rack deadlifts and replaced them with Good Mornings and continued with Olympic pulls.

    In working with other lifters, the emphasis is on training the deadlift without overtraining the lower back. Since most lifters have a pshychological need to deadlift, we find a deadlift program that allows them to deadlift without tearing up their lower back.

    The keys to keeping the lower back fresh is infrequent deadlift training sessions, REST. Chip McCain (198 world deadlift record holder) use to talk about his back feeling "charred" (burnt out).

    McCain alternated heavy and light deadlift training sessions. One week was heavy and one week was light.

    In going over his light weeks with him, I didnt see a rhythm. His weight fluctuated on his light weeks.

    McCain's reply was "I keep the light weeks light." McCain let the feel of the weight dictate his light week training pounage. The focus on the light week was for recovery only, pump blood into the muscles...prepare him for the heavy week.

    Kenny Croxdale

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