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Thread: Speed squats

  1. #1
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    Speed squats

    Still working on low bar positioning, only been doing it for maybe a month1, so, anything anyone sees as far as critiques would be appreciated (on the entire squatting process). More weight, less weight, knees, sitting back, rip it apart please.

    225 + blues 2nd set:
    Video


    225 + blues 4th set:
    Video


    315 + blues 1st set (with 315 - lost balance a bit at the top of the first rep, hence the delay):
    Video


    315 + blues 2nd set:
    Video




    God that bar is ****ing bent.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reko View Post


    God that bar is ****ing bent.
    THANKS SEAN!!!111

  3. #3
    The Project KarstenDD's Avatar
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    Dude, only problem I see is tha you might could try arching harder and driving your head back more before you start the lift, but that might just be the angle.

    Sick speed, though.
    Roll Tide.

  4. #4
    SOS 242 lifter Sean Hatley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillNoble View Post
    THANKS SEAN!!!111
    Big deal. My bar is bent, so what.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Hatley View Post
    Big deal. My bar is bent, so what.
    If that's that attitude you are going to have about it maybe you should take 'your' bent bar and find a different place to train.

  6. #6
    Go Bears Pete22's Avatar
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    Nice speed. 315 looked just as fast as 225.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarstenDD View Post
    Dude, only problem I see is tha you might could try arching harder and driving your head back more before you start the lift, but that might just be the angle.

    Sick speed, though.
    It's probably not the camera angle, I'm still adjusting to the low bar position. It's still kind of funny feeling to be, but I'll keep that suggestion in mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reko View Post
    If that's that attitude you are going to have about it maybe you should take 'your' bent bar and find a different place to train.
    I hear 24hr. fitness is nice

  9. #9
    Who me? Chubrock's Avatar
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    Near hobbit proportions. Great speed.

    Fuck, fight, or hold the light.

  10. #10
    IRL my name is Trent Hazerboy's Avatar
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    I would say your 225 (4th set) is much faster than 315, though "how fast is fast enough" is something I've never really understood (which is probably why people vary the weights). You'll probably just have to find something that works for you. I like my speed to be somewhere in between your two vids.

    BUT, srsly, be cautious when training with a bent bar, especially for speed work. I think doing that for 4 months over the summer has made my squatting setup really...weird. One shoulder is definitely lower than the other now, and from looking back at old videos and talking to my training partners, I never used to do that. To fix it I have to concentrate really hard and have others watch my setup a lot.

    Have you seen any gains yet from switching to low bar yet? I had to drop fifty pounds when I was learning it... and I didn't even really get it down (with medium stance) for another 4-6 months. I'm just starting to get wider stances.
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  11. #11
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    1. Speed is fine. I'd slow it down a bit on the way down, though. You can't drop kike that with gear on.
    2. You're rocking on the box. This is not good. You rock back and then forward to stand up. Your back rounds and you lose all your tightness and arch. Your box squatform should be identical to your free squat form. If I took the box away, you would fall on your ass.
    3. Arch your back HARD! Drive your head back into the bar. When you reach the box DO NOT relax anything. Stay crazy tight and act as if there was no box there. What's going to happen is you'll become a good box squatter and you'll suck at free squatting. There's no box squat contests, so get good at free squatting.

    Remember, your box and free form should be identical. Train exactly how you'll compete.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    When you reach the box DO NOT relax anything. Stay crazy tight and act as if there was no box there. What's
    The way you're describing it, is it any different than just doing a pause squat, no box?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazerboy View Post

    Have you seen any gains yet from switching to low bar yet? I had to drop fifty pounds when I was learning it... and I didn't even really get it down (with medium stance) for another 4-6 months. I'm just starting to get wider stances.
    Yea, about 75 pounds more. Its still really wierd since its harder for me to stay tight (I'm not flexible in my shoulders I am finding out) but it's getting better. My ROM feel sooooo much shorter.


    Rhodes, I'll worth on those thanks for looking.

  14. #14
    IRL my name is Trent Hazerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    2. You're rocking on the box. This is not good. You rock back and then forward to stand up. Your back rounds and you lose all your tightness and arch. Your box squatform should be identical to your free squat form. If I took the box away, you would fall on your ass.
    This is something else that has never been real clear to me on box squats. I've never had someone experienced sit down and teach me how to box squat, so all I have to go on is videos of other experienced lifters doing it and reading around. Some places (as in articles I've read on WBB, and I think some T-nation articles on box squatting) say that you need to release your hip flexors and *sit back* on the box, while keeping everything else tight. but I always thought that sitting back on the box would give you momentum that you otherwise wouldn't have in free squatting. Seeing as how you actually train at westside (correct me if I'm wrong) I think I'll take your advice XD.

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    3. Arch your back HARD! Drive your head back into the bar. When you reach the box DO NOT relax anything. Stay crazy tight and act as if there was no box there. What's going to happen is you'll become a good box squatter and you'll suck at free squatting. There's no box squat contests, so get good at free squatting.

    Remember, your box and free form should be identical. Train exactly how you'll compete.
    You may a good point - when you do speed work, you're not only working on speed but *greasing the groove,* so why should your form be any different than how you squat in competition? But that makes me think -- why should you use the box at all when speed squatting? Its supposed to get rid of the *stretch reflex,* but even in competition you have the stretch reflex, so shouldn't you be training that also?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad08 View Post
    The way you're describing it, is it any different than just doing a pause squat, no box?
    Yeah, it is different. When you sit on the box, you do "relax" a bit. Or maybe better said, the box takes some of the strain from you. I'm not exactly sure how to put it. When you free squat, pause or not, there is no way in hell you could relax in any way shape or form.

    The best way to box squat, in my opinion, is to sit on the box, but don't rock at all. Stay crazy tight and just explode back up without rocking. Mainly because you can't rock when you free squat. I don't know if that makes any sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reko View Post
    Yea, about 75 pounds more. Its still really wierd since its harder for me to stay tight (I'm not flexible in my shoulders I am finding out) but it's getting better. My ROM feel sooooo much shorter.


    Rhodes, I'll worth on those thanks for looking.
    Try to find a way to get your hands out wider. That should help the flexibility a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazerboy View Post
    This is something else that has never been real clear to me on box squats. I've never had someone experienced sit down and teach me how to box squat, so all I have to go on is videos of other experienced lifters doing it and reading around. Some places (as in articles I've read on WBB, and I think some T-nation articles on box squatting) say that you need to release your hip flexors and *sit back* on the box, while keeping everything else tight. but I always thought that sitting back on the box would give you momentum that you otherwise wouldn't have in free squatting. Seeing as how you actually train at westside (correct me if I'm wrong) I think I'll take your advice XD.



    You may a good point - when you do speed work, you're not only working on speed but *greasing the groove,* so why should your form be any different than how you squat in competition? But that makes me think -- why should you use the box at all when speed squatting? Its supposed to get rid of the *stretch reflex,* but even in competition you have the stretch reflex, so shouldn't you be training that also?
    I don't train at Westside. I train at Southside in CT. I have been to Westside, though. Good story.

    I'll ask you this, try to just sit back and "relax" your hip flexors while keeping everything else tight. It's impossible to do. The easiest solution is to just pause on the box for a 2 count. That will get rid of the rocking and the stretch reflex.

    As for how the stretch reflex works - who cares? It doesn't matter. What you need to do is figure out what YOU need to do to improve your squat. Some think box squatting is the answer. Others don't. I box squatted for years with good success. I haven't used them much in a long time and have had continued success.

    Here's a shameless plug for myself, but try this out.

    http://www.elitefts.com/documents/raw_squatting.htm

    I used this with my gear to squat 930 and stand up with 1000. Not a box squat in site. My point is, because Louie said it, doesn't make it gospel. Don't get me wrong. louie is the man. But, there are a million ways to skin a cat. Experiment for 3-4 months with different ideas. You need to let them run their course, though. That's what I think 3-4 months is a good duration.

    Whatever you do, make sure YOU believe in it and believe it's gonna work.

    I'm not sure if I helped or not.

  18. #18
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    Just to give a plug for Rhodes' squat program he linked there. I'm through 8 weeks of it and have increased my squat 60lbs. It works. So thanks Matt for a great article.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Daone's Avatar
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    Out of curiosity and for my own edification as well, what is the purpose of speed squats?
    Hated by many confronted by none..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daone View Post
    Out of curiosity and for my own edification as well, what is the purpose of speed squats?
    To work on explosion and technique at lighter weight. It's also an easy way for powerlifters to get more volume in during the week without taxing the cns too bad.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Daone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Moore View Post
    To work on explosion and technique at lighter weight. It's also an easy way for powerlifters to get more volume in during the week without taxing the cns too bad.
    Thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    The best way to box squat, in my opinion, is to sit on the box, but don't rock at all. Stay crazy tight and just explode back up without rocking. Mainly because you can't rock when you free squat. I don't know if that makes any sense.
    Pausing on the box and blasting up is one way of performing Box Squat. However, if you watch Simmons' on one of his training tapes, you notice that he rocks forward a bit before ascending.

    The Orignial West Side Box Squat was/is performed by rocking back on the box. As you rock back you lift you heels off the floor.

    You then rock forward, as you start to ascend, you then drive you heels in to the floor. The Orignial West Side Box Squat method develop more power coming off the box. It worked for George Frenn, Peanuts West, etc.

    Another method is a Plyometric Box Squat. It is a touch and go, that elicits the stretch reflex. That is what you do in a meet squat, you want some bounce ouf to the hole. Research shows that you can produce up to 18% more power when the a bounce is used.

    The only way to develop the stretch reflex is to perform some type of plyometric movement (movement with a bounce). "Squatting: To Be Explosive, Train Explosive" goes into a varitey of plyometric squat methods that will help.

    Josh Bryant, a powerlifter, goes into how plyometrics increased his squat and bench press. You can find that information at Josh's web site under plyometrics.

    All of these method have a place in one's training.

    Kenny Croxdale
    Last edited by Kenny Croxdale; 11-03-2008 at 11:18 AM.

  23. #23
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    When we do box squats now, we do it the way Rhodes described. We'll come to a complete stop, but don't rock way back anymore.

    Times change and so do training methods


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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    When we do box squats now, we do it the way Rhodes described. We'll come to a complete stop, but don't rock way back anymore.

    Times change and so do training methods
    Did it change just to do something new/different or is the new way simply more effective?

  25. #25
    Bad Attitude Gym AdamBAG's Avatar
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    We've been doing the same. Sit down and "commit to the box" while keeping your arch tight etc. The slam it off the box without rocking. I think this has helped my squat a lot.
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