The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
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    How important are deadlifts?

    I know the answer guys.

    Need some good and honest feedback here.I had a kid show up today(1st day)that has the attitude that deadlifts are not good for you and only hurt your back.Were talking a kid that is involved in football and basketball.You suppose the deadlift could help him a little in these sports?

    Ryan Hale

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  3. #2
    All Natural Power Lunar Effect's Avatar
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    The deadlift works the entire body and taxes the hell out of your CNS. It is as good of an exercise that there is for making the entire body grow and developing bone-crushing power and strength. So no, it won't help a little...it will help a LOT. You can tell him that he can either act like a man and deadlift, or he can be a pussy and not deadlift.

  4. #3
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    Deadlifts are very important if you want to get a much stronger body, which is pretty important for an athlete. Now, if you just want to get good at math or something, then I'd say they are not very important. It all depends on what your goals are.
    Last edited by brihead301; 11-19-2008 at 12:19 PM.
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  5. #4
    Wannabebig Member pie zar's Avatar
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    If done correctly I think the dead lift actually helps prevent injurys in sports. It also strenghens your whole body and is pretty much the best exercise you can do.

  6. #5
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    I really can't say it better than Lunar Effect did. I used to work in a commercial gym and inevitably what I found was that people who said squats and deadlifts were not good for you or that they were unsafe were always the same people that were extremely weak. If you want to skip out on the tough exercises that is fine, but don't spew garbage about how they aren't good for you when all of the evidence is to the contrary. If your form is good and you warm up properly, you are not going to hurt yourself doing deadlifts. The only side-effect is that you will get ridiculously strong and thick, if you don't like that, then sure, I guess you don't need to deadlift.
    Last edited by Athos; 11-19-2008 at 01:45 PM.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunar Effect View Post
    The deadlift works the entire body and taxes the hell out of your CNS. It is as good of an exercise that there is for making the entire body grow and developing bone-crushing power and strength. So no, it won't help a little...it will help a LOT. You can tell him that he can either act like a man and deadlift, or he can be a pussy and not deadlift.
    Well said that man!

  8. #7
    SFW! drew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Hale View Post
    I know the answer guys.

    Need some good and honest feedback here.I had a kid show up today(1st day)that has the attitude that deadlifts are not good for you and only hurt your back.Were talking a kid that is involved in football and basketball.You suppose the deadlift could help him a little in these sports?

    Ryan Hale
    He's right. Deadlifts are no good. Squats are no good (they also can hurt your back). Same thing with good mornings, rows and lunges. Benching is no good because it puts too much stress on your shoulders, same with any kind of overhead movement.

    No, really the only way to avoid injury is to sit on your ass and do nothing.

    See if that helps him become a better football player.

    Stats: Age: 34 Weight: 205 Height: 5'6"
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  9. #8
    THE FRIDGE! thewicked's Avatar
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    they are THE number one total body exercise for overall strength and power. No one single other lift stimulates more muscle groups..

    answer enough?!
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  10. #9
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    Most of the experienced lifters that don't do deadlifts are just plain lazy,make too many excuses, and try and find routines that advocate NOT deadlifting. Exception would be someone injured, or doing a high profile bench meet etc....yes there are exceptions, but few in my opinion. Lets just put that right out there. Many of the best bench specialists that I know personally, including Ryan, regularly deadlift off season, Tiny DLs off season, as for bbers Ronnie used to pull pre contest for Mr O. As for overtaxing the CNS, thats a bunch of BULL SH IT if you ask me. No one EVER mentioned that until Louie said it, when he was big on Bill Stars increasing your pull without pulling, even though Mr. Star is far from a world class puller himself, nothing against him personally, but PLEASE show me any elite puller in a show that didn't do any pulls leading up to the show. ANY compound movement done in a very taxing manner or to failure will be hard to recover from, the DL is no different. But people shying away from them due to taxing the CNS are simply finding an easy way out in MY OPINION. I recently wrapped up a very intense 16 week cycle for worlds, my traning partners were 61, 50 and 25, some sumo, some conv, and one partner early in the cycle was female and over 50. We pulled EVERY SINGLE WEEK and heavy, including rev bands going above contest maxes, and EVERY single lifter hit a PR at the end of the cycle, so much for CNS taxation.....thats my CNS rant, felt good to get it out lol. So to answer your question, deadlifts are a GREAT excercise and no other movement will give you better back development than heavy 5 rep sets of the good old conventional deadlift.

    Semper Fi

  11. #10
    Demons of Steel and Flesh HP666's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SGT ROCK View Post
    I recently wrapped up a very intense 16 week cycle for worlds, my traning partners were 61, 50 and 25, some sumo, some conv, and one partner early in the cycle was female and over 50. We pulled EVERY SINGLE WEEK and heavy, including rev bands going above contest maxes, and EVERY single lifter hit a PR at the end of the cycle, so much for CNS taxation...
    Semper Fi
    Hey Sarge,

    Question for you. During this 16 week cycle what was your other training like? I.E. squats, bench, etc. I ask because I am about to start a training cycle myself and was curious about where to deadlift; Let me explain.... I train Westside philosophy mainly, 2 max days, 2 speed days. I've had it drilled in my head just what you said above, "don't pull too much", etc, etc. I've been told on Max days after Squatting to do a few light speed pulls either off the floor or pins, that there's no need to do more. WELL, my deadlift sucks and I think that's a load of bull****, if I want to get a bigger, better deadlift, I need to DEADLIFT. Quite a revelation!!! My question is where to do it during the week. I pull Sumo, I'm 39 years old, and drug free, so I do need my recovery time after squatting heavy/DLing. I was hoping you could throw a few ideas my way regarding getting more DLing in. And fyi I'm not married to Westside and I am willing to mix it up. I'd appreciate any thoughts you may share.

  12. #11
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Yikes, little rant against Lou there Brent? LOL

    We pull in one way or another every week. Not always heavy though


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  13. #12
    Supplement Junkie MattBag's Avatar
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    Deads are the one lift I find hard to do more than once a week. and I don't think its because i just added them to my training regimen. I truly believe they are one of the toughest lifts out there and I avoided them for as long as possible but since i stepped up over the last couple months they are for sure my favorite lift, to bad I can't handle more than once a week.
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  14. #13
    All Natural Power Lunar Effect's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SGT ROCK View Post
    As for overtaxing the CNS, thats a bunch of BULL SH IT if you ask me. No one EVER mentioned that until Louie said it, when he was big on Bill Stars increasing your pull without pulling, even though Mr. Star is far from a world class puller himself, nothing against him personally, but PLEASE show me any elite puller in a show that didn't do any pulls leading up to the show. ANY compound movement done in a very taxing manner or to failure will be hard to recover from, the DL is no different. But people shying away from them due to taxing the CNS are simply finding an easy way out in MY OPINION. I recently wrapped up a very intense 16 week cycle for worlds, my traning partners were 61, 50 and 25, some sumo, some conv, and one partner early in the cycle was female and over 50. We pulled EVERY SINGLE WEEK and heavy, including rev bands going above contest maxes, and EVERY single lifter hit a PR at the end of the cycle, so much for CNS taxation.....thats my CNS rant, felt good to get it out lol.
    I didn't hear anyone mention overtaxing the CNS. I just said that the deadlift is very taxing to the CNS, which it is. I deadlift weekly with either the coventional pull or trap bar deads, but there's no way I could pull more than 4 sets per week. Nothing wears me out like deads...

  15. #14
    IRL my name is Trent Hazerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SGT ROCK View Post
    Most of the experienced lifters that don't do deadlifts are just plain lazy,make too many excuses, and try and find routines that advocate NOT deadlifting. Exception would be someone injured, or doing a high profile bench meet etc....yes there are exceptions, but few in my opinion. Lets just put that right out there. Many of the best bench specialists that I know personally, including Ryan, regularly deadlift off season, Tiny DLs off season, as for bbers Ronnie used to pull pre contest for Mr O. As for overtaxing the CNS, thats a bunch of BULL SH IT if you ask me. No one EVER mentioned that until Louie said it, when he was big on Bill Stars increasing your pull without pulling, even though Mr. Star is far from a world class puller himself, nothing against him personally, but PLEASE show me any elite puller in a show that didn't do any pulls leading up to the show. ANY compound movement done in a very taxing manner or to failure will be hard to recover from, the DL is no different. But people shying away from them due to taxing the CNS are simply finding an easy way out in MY OPINION. I recently wrapped up a very intense 16 week cycle for worlds, my traning partners were 61, 50 and 25, some sumo, some conv, and one partner early in the cycle was female and over 50. We pulled EVERY SINGLE WEEK and heavy, including rev bands going above contest maxes, and EVERY single lifter hit a PR at the end of the cycle, so much for CNS taxation.....thats my CNS rant, felt good to get it out lol. So to answer your question, deadlifts are a GREAT excercise and no other movement will give you better back development than heavy 5 rep sets of the good old conventional deadlift.

    Semper Fi
    Its cool to see someone go "against the guru." I feel like a lot of people take what Louie says to be gospel.

    That being said, I'm not an awesome deadlifter, but it is my best lift. Every time I've maxed for the last 2 years or so I make a PR, and all I really do is squat work/good mornings, and occasional speed deadlift work(oh wait, and a CRAPLOAD of rows/chins/pull ups/etc). So I feel like it is really easy to add pounds to your deadlift without deadlifting--I don't feel like I could add pounds to my squat or bench without upright squatting or benching!

    BUT, like you said, this will never make you an elite deadlifter--unless I'm mistaken, westside hasn't produced that many great deadlifters, no?

    Oh, and to the OP--

    Make him watch some videos of some really, really freaking strong people deadlifting. WSM stuff or something. then tell him that these guys have the strongest backs in the WORLD, and that they would totally kick his ass in football if they ever met him on the field, technique or no technique XD.

    If that still doesn't convince him, slap him around a bit, then throw sciency stuff at him or something. :-p
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  16. #15
    needs more food Mosnar's Avatar
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    I personally like this video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V_PbCLCfv0

    Jouko is yoked. That is a good reason for deadlifting.
    Currently: 6'3", 220#, 295/235/430

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  17. #16
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazerboy View Post
    Its cool to see someone go "against the guru." I feel like a lot of people take what Louie says to be gospel.
    I'd guess that might be because the guy produces results. People seem to like results


    BUT, like you said, this will never make you an elite deadlifter--unless I'm mistaken, westside hasn't produced that many great deadlifters, no?
    Unless 800lb deadlifts are considered not great

    If they are however, we've produced more great deadlifters than any other gym to my knowledge (15 lifters who have pulled 800+)

    You tell me what works

    To each their own though. Train how you like I guess Nothing against Brent and his training, he obviously doesn't care for the way we do things at Westside. Its cool to see how other people train and there certainly is no right or wrong way to train. Whatever suits ya
    Last edited by Travis Bell; 11-19-2008 at 11:16 PM.


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  18. #17
    Squat Heavy, Squat Often Cards's Avatar
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    It's a must and my absolute favorite lift. Bench day is fun but there's nothing like deadlift day.
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  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cards View Post
    It's a must and my absolute favorite lift. Bench day is fun but there's nothing like deadlift day.
    ^^ what he said.

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    Unless 800lb deadlifts are considered not great

    If they are however, we've produced more great deadlifters than any other gym to my knowledge (15 lifters who have pulled 800+)
    But how many pulled 900+?

  21. #20
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    To each their own though. Train how you like I guess Nothing against Brent and his training, he obviously doesn't care for the way we do things at Westside. Its cool to see how other people train and there certainly is no right or wrong way to train. Whatever suits ya[/QUOTE]


    Hey brother it isnt about me NOT liking or as you put it, caring for the way Louie advocates to train, it is about me not AGREEING with that CERTAIN ASPECT. I have learned alot from Louie, no question. But without QUESTION the best DLERS OF ALL TIME ALL PULL HEAVY AND OFTEN, WITHOUT EXCEPTION. For an example of this merely take the all time best dlers list top to bottom, not one guy trained the OLD westside way which was little or no dling, if you will not Louies MORE RECENT dl articles advocate MORE dling, as opposed to his advocating Bill Starrs no dling in the past. The best deadlifters all time all pull heavy, and an overwhelming majority of todays best all pull heavy as well. Konstantinovs, Kutcher, Coan, Hawthorne, Caprari are some of todays best, and ALL pull heavy and often for example. I would love to go to Westside someday and learn, its not anti Westside, its just not agreeing with NOT pulling heavy for BEST results.

    Semper Fi

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunar Effect View Post
    I didn't hear anyone mention overtaxing the CNS. I just said that the deadlift is very taxing to the CNS, which it is. I deadlift weekly with either the coventional pull or trap bar deads, but there's no way I could pull more than 4 sets per week. Nothing wears me out like deads...

    Ok brother how do you measure OVER taxing vs TAXING.....DLS are no more TAXING to the CNS than a heavy set of SQUATS done to exhaustion I would guess. There is no way to really measure CNS taxation so we could argue for days, so that term really means jack to me to be honest, it is just a way to avoid pulling heavy which is the new trend, don't believe me, the deadlift numbers are DOWN in recent years on the top 100 lists, and the squats and benches way up as it is much more fashionable to wear great gear and get a big boost in the other lifts, but MUCH more difficult to get the DL to move, ie you must PULL HEAVY. I just got back from the WABDL worlds, and the top five pullers by formula ALL PULL HEAVY EVERY SINGLE WEEK, just another example.

    Semper Fi

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    Yikes, little rant against Lou there Brent? LOL

    We pull in one way or another every week. Not always heavy though
    No way brother...I like Louie!

    Semper Fi

  24. #23
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    Wabdl Worlds Awesome Deadlifts Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by SGT ROCK View Post
    Ok brother how do you measure OVER taxing vs TAXING.....DLS are no more TAXING to the CNS than a heavy set of SQUATS done to exhaustion I would guess. There is no way to really measure CNS taxation so we could argue for days, so that term really means jack to me to be honest, it is just a way to avoid pulling heavy which is the new trend, don't believe me, the deadlift numbers are DOWN in recent years on the top 100 lists, and the squats and benches way up as it is much more fashionable to wear great gear and get a big boost in the other lifts, but MUCH more difficult to get the DL to move, ie you must PULL HEAVY. I just got back from the WABDL worlds, and the top five pullers by formula ALL PULL HEAVY EVERY SINGLE WEEK, just another example.

    Semper Fi

    AWESOME. SGT. ROCK. I, MYSELF DEADLIFT WEEKLY IN MY POWERLIFTING CYCLE.Don't like all the systems to NOT Deadlift weekly. They are usually just Lazy folks. Going for the Bigger Better Super Suited Lifts, with these Super Suits on. Bigger Squats 200 to 300 Lbs more then there Best Deadlift?? Benches Bigger then your Deadlifts??? What??? Anyway. I'LL, be standing by for more of your DeadLift training articles and Deadlift Suit info. Video of Awesome Conventional Deadlifts, in or out of the Cage.................

  25. #24
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    ON a radio show, Ryan said he doesnt deadlift, maybe thats only when he is getting ready for a meet though.

  26. #25
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SGT ROCK View Post
    Hey brother it isnt about me NOT liking or as you put it, caring for the way Louie advocates to train, it is about me not AGREEING with that CERTAIN ASPECT. I have learned alot from Louie, no question. But without QUESTION the best DLERS OF ALL TIME ALL PULL HEAVY AND OFTEN, WITHOUT EXCEPTION. For an example of this merely take the all time best dlers list top to bottom, not one guy trained the OLD westside way which was little or no dling, if you will not Louies MORE RECENT dl articles advocate MORE dling, as opposed to his advocating Bill Starrs no dling in the past. The best deadlifters all time all pull heavy, and an overwhelming majority of todays best all pull heavy as well. Konstantinovs, Kutcher, Coan, Hawthorne, Caprari are some of todays best, and ALL pull heavy and often for example. I would love to go to Westside someday and learn, its not anti Westside, its just not agreeing with NOT pulling heavy for BEST results.

    Semper Fi
    I understand what you're saying, but Lou isn't just about the deadlift. He's more concerned with the total

    Now the deadlifters you mentioned most certainly do pull often and heavy. Kutcher unfortunately ended up ruining his back if I'm not mistaken, but Konstantinovs is a good example because he doesn't appear to have injuries at all. Unfortunately his total is not the best.

    The other thing to take into consideration is there are going to be guys who are the exception to the rule. IMO Lou has found a good happy medium between training agressively while still focusing on the total.


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