The reason I want to focus on powerlifting here is because olympic lifting has many more components to it than pure strength, so it's kind of fallacious to pull out some olympic lifter and go "here, strength doesn't equal size!" when there are many, many factors going into how good of an olympic lifter someone is that have very little to do with strength.
Last edited by OGROK; 12-08-2008 at 12:19 AM.
JHarris, pointing out a select few people that break the mold does not solidify your argument, the point is that 90% of the time the bigger guys are stronger, so to get stronger it would be better advice to say you need to get bigger to do this. Stop arguing.
Yeah, and honestly you are looking at guys who are at the top 0.001% of their weight class. Of course they are going to be incredibly strong for their size. That's why they are able to compete on an elite level. On the other hand, your chances of being able to handle that kind of weight go up exponentially as you get bigger.
Last edited by OGROK; 12-08-2008 at 12:32 AM.
Back to the subject at hand. Your stats say you are 18%. Try getting down to 9% and I think you would notice a big difference.
the fact that there is so much more that goes into it then just high rep vs. low rep. It isn't that cut and dry and saying that something answers all your questions is stupid because it doesn't come close. Different types of exercise style yield different types of hypertrophy, there is hypertrophy to make you more dense and hypertrophy that makes you less dense and bigger but this has a lot more to do with movements and specific training then just a rep range. My advice: if you want to be bigger, get stronger and eat more, simple as that.
See, that's the thing; a large percentage good (not the absolute top level, even) of olympic lifters are very strong without being very big. I've already agreed that it is easier to gain strength by trying to make BOTH size and neural gains. I've said it a few times, in fact. But that doesn't take away from my point that it is still possible to just make neural gains and get very strong.
Again, the majority of people could get much, much stronger without gaining any weight. Yes, Rybakov (that lifter picture) is in that .001% that is near his potential strength for his size.. but that's why it actually does support my argument.
Its not necessarily better advice to just get bigger as that advice can counter the goals of some athletes. That's been the point I have been trying to get across. I agree that you are more likely to handle heavy weight when you are bigger. I've never said anything different.
So it's like I said before. There are freaks out there that are incredibly strong for their bodyweight, but if YOU, a normal person with normal genetics, wants to throw up huge numbers, you need to get big.
Last edited by OGROK; 12-08-2008 at 10:08 AM.
First off, again, the olympic lifting argument is still valid here because I am referring to their squat numbers. Yes, the Olympic squat is harder than the powerlifting squat, but most people can manage the technique once they gain the flexibility for it.
Yes, technique is a big issue in the actual competition lifts. That being said, when's the last time you or just about anyone on this board put 500lbs over his head? 400? You can say technique all you like, but that takes a ridiculous amount of strength. However, I've really been trying to point out their squat strength - big numbers without being big guys.
As I've said before, I am not a big guy. My training partners aren't big. Yet we all are very strong. Yes, we could get stronger if we got bigger. No question. But since we are in a sport that values strength and not size, we don't - therefore we maximize our strength with what we have. People might be surprised how strong you can get.. yes, a normal person, not a 'genetic freak', without gaining mass. It may take longer, but if your sport doesn't value huge size (and a lot don't, let's face it), or you just don't want to get a lot bigger, than there is still hope. That's the point.
A very strong person will have a much easier time training for "hypertrophy" then a not-so-strong person.
Point being, get all the big lifts up to a very respectable level, even if you aren't training specifically for size. Once you have a very strong and solid foundation to work with, then training for looks will be a much easier task.
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Last edited by Chalky Palms; 12-08-2008 at 04:54 PM.
Lol this is a heated thread.
I think we can all agree
‘possible to gain strength without adding size... to a certain point.’
the point in which ur strength won’t go higher without adding muscle mass... dependant on the individual’s genetics.
There is not a distinct line where neural adaptations end and structural/metabolic adaptations begin; rather it is a continuum, like temperature or colors of a rainbow.
So Venuto isn't even saying that rep ranges are cut and dry. He is just giving general guidelines. And that was the basic question posed - "How do strength and hypertrophy relate to various rep ranges?" Of course diet factors in...so do tons of other things that we could go on for months about.
Last edited by Lunar Effect; 12-08-2008 at 05:50 PM.
thanks hall monitor, anyway, I take it back, you aren't a fag, but you did change my words around and then pretend to agree with me later, now go burn some fat and feed the muscle.
- Slave & Master At The Same Damn Time -Hoping To Compete Natty Early 2011
I'm a car guy. Always have been. I look at size/strength like horsepower/torque. You can build a motor to make horsepower, but it won't necessarily make alot of torque. BUT, if you build a motor to make torque and lots of it, you will get horsepower.
In other words, you can build yourself to get big, but no necessarily strong. BUT, typically, if you build yourself to get really strong, you will get big, as well.
Give chalk a chance.
49 years old
22 - 5'10@236lbs!
Bench - 325 (old)
Squat - 455x2 (old)
Deadlift - 500(old)
Total: 1280lbs 100% raw
The key to my exercise program is this one simple truth: I hate my body.