The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Senior Member snikez's Avatar
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    Which to eliminate: Seated Row or Lat Pulldown

    Ok I have too many arm exercises so I was looking to remove one. I'm thinking about taking out the seated row because I think I get bicep work and back work with the Lat pulldown as well as Lat work. Would this be a smart decision?

    Basically which of these is more useless than the other and could afford to be cut from my workout.
    Age 20-5'10
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  3. #2
    My own personal trainer dumbbell's Avatar
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    We'd have to know what the rest of the back/ bicep workout looks like to give a qualified answer to your question.
    Jason

    It is currently a fad, at this writing, for boys to think they need a "six pack", although most of them don't have an ice chest to put it in.
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  4. #3
    Senior Member snikez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dumbbell View Post
    We'd have to know what the rest of the back/ bicep workout looks like to give a qualified answer to your question.
    Ok. Current workout schedule

    Biceps
    Lat Pulldown
    Seated Row
    Bicep Curls
    Pullups

    Back
    Lat Pulldown
    Seated Row
    Pullup
    Back Extension

    Basically most of my back exercises also work biceps and most bicep exercises work back too. I just think I should include something that works my lats and I could afford to take out seated row because I have other back exercises...
    Age 20-5'10
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    Now: 195 lbs

  5. #4
    TJW jed's Avatar
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    take away bicep curls and leave them both, IMO. then add Tbar rows and BB rows, one to each day.
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  6. #5
    The Flyfisher rbtrout's Avatar
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    Yes, you'll hit bis while doing back.
    You need to incorporate deads on back day - first lift of the day. Something like this:
    Deadlifts - 3X5
    Pullups - 3Xfailure (bw or bw+)
    Bent rows - 3X8
    Lat pulls (if you want to) - 3X8
    Some type of curl - 3X8-10

    Simple, easy and fairly quick for a killer back/bi w/o.

    Tbar rows are ok if you do them free weight, not on the chest supported one.
    Give chalk a chance.


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  7. #6
    My own personal trainer dumbbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbtrout View Post
    Yes, you'll hit bis while doing back.
    You need to incorporate deads on back day - first lift of the day. Something like this:
    Deadlifts - 3X5
    Pullups - 3Xfailure (bw or bw+)
    Bent rows - 3X8
    Lat pulls (if you want to) - 3X8
    Some type of curl - 3X8-10

    Simple, easy and fairly quick for a killer back/bi w/o.

    Tbar rows are ok if you do them free weight, not on the chest supported one.
    There you go. Excellent routine.

    I usually only use pulldowns as a warm up for pullups, same movement basically (vertical pull).

    What's wrong with the chest supported rows BTW?
    Last edited by dumbbell; 12-12-2008 at 10:13 AM.
    Jason

    It is currently a fad, at this writing, for boys to think they need a "six pack", although most of them don't have an ice chest to put it in.
    -Mark Rippetoe

  8. #7
    Senior Member cphafner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbtrout View Post
    Yes, you'll hit bis while doing back.
    You need to incorporate deads on back day - first lift of the day. Something like this:
    Deadlifts - 3X5
    Pullups - 3Xfailure (bw or bw+)
    Bent rows - 3X8
    Lat pulls (if you want to) - 3X8
    Some type of curl - 3X8-10

    Simple, easy and fairly quick for a killer back/bi w/o.

    Tbar rows are ok if you do them free weight, not on the chest supported one.
    bingo.
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  9. #8
    The Flyfisher rbtrout's Avatar
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    There's nothing 'wrong' with them on the chest support. What that does is a few things - turns it into an isolation exercise for lats only (bis too) by removing the legs and low back support of a free weight Tbar row. Also on the chest supported one, once you get to pulling some heavy weights, due to the pressure on the chest, your breath will give in before you can really do much on the exercise. I used to do them, but gave them up for bent rows and pullups or even pulldowns.
    Give chalk a chance.


    49 years old

    665 squat
    700 deadlift
    325 bench

  10. #9
    My own personal trainer dumbbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbtrout View Post
    There's nothing 'wrong' with them on the chest support. What that does is a few things - turns it into an isolation exercise for lats only (bis too) by removing the legs and low back support of a free weight Tbar row. Also on the chest supported one, once you get to pulling some heavy weights, due to the pressure on the chest, your breath will give in before you can really do much on the exercise. I used to do them, but gave them up for bent rows and pullups or even pulldowns.
    Gottcha, thanx.
    Jason

    It is currently a fad, at this writing, for boys to think they need a "six pack", although most of them don't have an ice chest to put it in.
    -Mark Rippetoe

  11. #10
    Senior Member snikez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbtrout View Post
    Yes, you'll hit bis while doing back.
    You need to incorporate deads on back day - first lift of the day. Something like this:
    Deadlifts - 3X5
    Pullups - 3Xfailure (bw or bw+)
    Bent rows - 3X8
    Lat pulls (if you want to) - 3X8
    Some type of curl - 3X8-10

    Simple, easy and fairly quick for a killer back/bi w/o.

    Tbar rows are ok if you do them free weight, not on the chest supported one.
    That sounds like a very good split but I'm just doing full body workouts right now. I'm looking to include deadlifts into it soon though. So it looks like I'm gonna take out the seated row and replace it with the lat pulldown... But I have another question.

    Is there much of a difference between doing pullups overhanded or underhanded? I know that if you do them underhanded it works your biceps more but is it really that different?
    Age 20-5'10
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    Now: 195 lbs

  12. #11
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    Whats your entire split?
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  13. #12
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    I would substitute the both of those for barbell rows and power cleans to be honest. Nothing wrong with a few sets of biceps curls but keep it two one exercise only for that muscle.
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  14. #13
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    Don't drop the seated row...drop the lat pulldown or the bicep stuff...how is this not obvious when you do pullups? You've got a vertical pull...and you're gonna add another vertical pull while removing your horizontal pull...

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbtrout View Post
    Yes, you'll hit bis while doing back.
    You need to incorporate deads on back day - first lift of the day. Something like this:
    Deadlifts - 3X5
    Pullups - 3Xfailure (bw or bw+)
    Bent rows - 3X8
    Lat pulls (if you want to) - 3X8
    Some type of curl - 3X8-10

    Simple, easy and fairly quick for a killer back/bi w/o.

    Tbar rows are ok if you do them free weight, not on the chest supported one.
    wow that is almost identical to what I do.
    Stats: Bodyweight : Current= 150 lbs, Height = 5ft11.5

    Bench Press:160 lbs/Squat:225 lbs,/Deadlift:305/Total:675lbs/

    Not strong yet, but getting there.

    Journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=116786

  16. #15
    Senior Member snikez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ_H View Post
    I would substitute the both of those for barbell rows and power cleans to be honest. Nothing wrong with a few sets of biceps curls but keep it two one exercise only for that muscle.
    Why only keep one exercise for that muscle?? And how many sets should I do per workout for biceps. I do a full body workout so I workout everything out 3 times a week.
    Age 20-5'10
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    Now: 195 lbs

  17. #16
    small flabby and hairy joelhall's Avatar
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    youve been training 2 months so dont even bother with small things like biceps. do rows (bb) and pull ups and deads. drop everything else.

  18. #17
    Senior Member snikez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joelhall View Post
    youve been training 2 months so dont even bother with small things like biceps. do rows (bb) and pull ups and deads. drop everything else.
    ok so I think I'll take out Lat pulldown and seated row. I think I'll replace them with bent dumbbell row cause I like to use dumbbells more than barbells.
    Age 20-5'10
    Then: 134 lbs November 12, 2008
    Now: 195 lbs

  19. #18
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    bro i'd do everything but either split up during the week or for every back workout you do change up the exercises so its all fresh and your muscles will say wow!

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiftingDead315 View Post
    bro i'd do everything but either split up during the week or for every back workout you do change up the exercises so its all fresh and your muscles will say wow!


    Changing the exercises for every back workout (or for that matter any bodypart workout) is counter-productive. Stick with the big compounds for as long as you progress on them. Once you stop it may then be time to think about changing exercises or re-arranging them or what-have-you.

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