The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member cjones5632's Avatar
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    SS vs Stronglifts

    I see a lot of people here recommend Starting Strength. I was going to start Stronglift 5x5 tommorow, but I was just wondering if I would be better off with Starting Strength. I have been lifting for about 1.5 years but was ready for a change. I can only see a few differences in the two, but let me know if i'm wrong.

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  3. #2
    The King of Crash jtrink's Avatar
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    if your looking into a 5x5 program, i would suggest Bill Starr's 5x5.

  4. #3
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    Stronglifts is just a ripoff that favors unneccesarily large volume, and advocates rows over cleans.

  5. #4
    Wannabebig Member cjones5632's Avatar
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    Thanks for the advice, I have looked at Bill Stars 5x5 although it was just briefly. I will look at it again in the AM.

  6. #5
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    Keep in mind that there are literally hundreds of various bill Starr routines out there... The man would often devise a 5x5 on an individual basis so that's why you have so many. I can vouche for the madcow variant that is floating around. I've just finished 7 weeks on it and its produced great gains both in size and strength.

    And the madcow version subs bent rows for power cleans. This is ok for me since I want to powerlift, and the bent rows help my deadlift.

    Post some current stats of yours and future goals and we can better reccomend a routine.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmanuel View Post
    This is ok for me since I want to powerlift, and the bent rows help my deadlift.
    Cleans would help more.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kastro View Post
    Cleans would help more.
    How do you know what works for me best? What works for others may not work for me. I've done power cleans in the past. I like them and they seem to help some but my deadlifts have benefited more from strict pendlay style rows. Different strokes for different folks.

  9. #8
    Senior Member Jorge Sanchez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kastro View Post
    Cleans would help more.
    But the rows are better for the bench.

  10. #9
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    The routine is less important than the hard work you put into it.

  11. #10
    The Dude Abides Bango Skank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kastro View Post
    Stronglifts is just a ripoff that favors unneccesarily large volume, and advocates rows over cleans.
    oh... you mean WrongLifts?

    Stronglifts has outstanding explanations of the main lifts and great supplementary information... but unfortunatley it is also peddles a wannabe Kethnaab's version of Starting Strength, with an added 40% volume and additional mandatory accessory exercises. Here is how the designer of Stronglifts 5x5 justifies his approach:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mehdi, Founder of Stronglifts
    The Beginner Strength Training Program I has 5 sets of 5 vs. 3sets of 5 with rippetoe. Reason is that Rippetoe starts with weight on the bar. StrongLifts appraoch starts with empty barbells. Doing 5 sets of 5 = 10 reps more than with rippetoe's, 30 reps more a week. These are 30 reps more that allows you to learn the technique. That's the first reason. Second reason is that it gives more total volume (sets*reps*weight) at the end of the week. Which is useful as the weight is so low (empty barbell).

    Exactly, it is "useful as the weight is so low," and it stops being useful as soon as respectable poundages are being moved (and isn't that the goal?).

    Never-the-less, even at a lower weight this still isn't as useful:


    StrongLifts 5x5:
    5x5x45lb = 1125 lbs. tonnage (bar only)

    vs.

    Starting Strength:
    3x5x75lb = 1125 lbs tonnage (bar + 30 lbs)

    One might take this to mean that starting 'Stronglifts' with an empty barbell is equal to starting 'Starting Strength' with 75 pounds, but it's not. You also have to look at intensity, which is a percentage of your maximum strength. True, they both have equal volume, but Starting Strength has a higher Intensity which will result in stimulating more growth.

    He also says that the extra 10 repetitions per lift will help with technique, but in Starting strength there are an extra 20 repetitions of warm-ups with lighter weight that accomplish the same goal.

    One other thing: Getting to 3x5x315 on Starting Strength is very doable. Getting to 5x5x315 on StrongLifts 5x5 would require genetic perfection.

    No, the original Starting Strength, Mark Rippetoe's version, is the best way to go about gaining strength as fast as possible for as long as possible. You will be doing just as much volume on Starting Strength, but you'll be doing it because of the increased intensity with heavier weight, not because of increased sets with lighter weights. Plus StrongLifts doesn't include powercleans in their program, and they are arguably one of the most effective exercises a beginner can do.
    Starting Strength Wiki

    Best Lifts
    Squat: 350x5
    Mil. Press: 165x5
    Deadlift: 455x1

    BW: 177

  12. #11
    Senior Member ehubbard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad08 View Post
    The routine is less important than the hard work you put into it.
    This is BY FAR the most IMPORTANT thing said in this thread.

  13. #12
    SFW! drew's Avatar
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    If you believe in your program and work your ass off, it will work for you. Just pick something and stick with it.

    Stats: Age: 34 Weight: 205 Height: 5'6"
    Gym PRs: Squat:635 Bench:560 Deadlift:495
    Meet PRs: Squat:575 Bench:520 Deadlift:510 Total: 1605@220

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by drew View Post
    If you believe in your program and work your ass off, it will work for you. Just pick something and stick with it.

    This is the best post I have read in a long time. Sometimes you forget this. Or at least I do.
    Check out my journal:
    http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=117073

    Goal To be the Strongest Huggins! - started again on 2/24/11 then again 2/27/12
    squat: 420 405 x 5
    bench: 355 320 x 3
    deadlift: 455 420 x 3
    Total 1215 on a single day

  15. #14
    Senior Member Jorge Sanchez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad08 View Post
    The routine is less important than the hard work you put into it.
    Quote Originally Posted by ehubbard View Post
    This is BY FAR the most IMPORTANT thing said in any thread.
    Fixed
    Last edited by Jorge Sanchez; 12-15-2008 at 12:09 PM.

  16. #15
    Lifting Archon. Shouji's Avatar
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    I'm sorta in your position. I started weight-lifting about 2 years ago following my own routine which involved working out 5 times a week, hitting each major body part twice a week.

    Did I get big? With proper nutrition, yes, I did in fact gain over 60 pounds.

    After my debut w/ cancer, in which I lost a lot of my gains and strength, I have decided to try Starting Strength. And within 3 months, my lifts are much much stronger than when I had been doing my previous routine.

    Whatever routine you do choose, if you eat enough, you will gain. However, I would STRONGLY recommend you become proficient with the big 3 lifts first.. I promise you will see much better results, much faster.
    8:45 Heaven

  17. #16
    Wannabebig Member cjones5632's Avatar
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    Well, I started Stronglifts today and even though I didn't start with just the bar and started with what I thought or knew I could lift. I loved it.

  18. #17
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Honestly, I don't think it matters that much which one you do. Beginners really don't need a lot of moderate-high intensity volume to make progress. They DO need lots of practice however and should be getting that in warm-ups, extra sets, etc. in addition to the work sets.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

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