Are they a no-no on the same day?
Are any 2 core exercises in the same workout a no-no?
Total: 874lbs raw
205lbs @ 5'11, age 18.
Its ok just dont max out on both if any at all. Starting Strength has them both on the same day and as with that routine do Deadlifts AFTER Squats.
Current 1RM's - Bench 264lbs (Target 308lbs)/Squat 396lbs (Target 352lbs)/
Deadlift 429lbs (Target 440lbs)
BIG 3 TOTAL at 220lbs (28% BF) = 1089lbs
6ft 2, 234lb fat, hairy ape!
My journal - http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...sion-of-an-ape
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Some guys like doing both heavy on the same day. After heavy squatting they feel warmed up for heavy deads. It really matters on what you want to do.
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Just get under the bar!
I've been doing them both on the same day for almost 3 years now. Personally, I haven't had any trouble making gains this way. I'm just now going to be switching them to separate days.
I squat everyday.
All my squat workouts include some deadlift variation and up until this program I am following right now, all my deadlift days have included a squat variation.
Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
Best Meet Lifts(Raw w/wraps):
@165- 435 SQ 270 BE 560 DL.....1255 total
@181- 535 SQ 300 BE 570 DL.....1400 total
Best Meet Lifts(Multi-ply):
@148- 575 SQ 315 BE 515 DL.....1400 total
@165- 680 SQ 380 BE 540 DL.....1555 total
@181- 700 SQ 375 BE 535 DL.....1605 total
Best Gym Lifts(Raw w/wraps)
545 SQ 305 BE 585 DL
I think it has to do with the fact that all the blood rushes to your back muscles (esp upper back muscles) i.e. "the pump", so it makes it harder to reach back and grab onto the bar... I personally know for a fact that it's nearly impossible to squat after benching, I couldn't reach back to grab the bar lol
Last edited by fpr; 01-01-2009 at 09:00 PM.
I deadlift at the end of my workouts (ergo post-squat) because I find anything done after DL's suffers quite a bit. Plus, squats serve as a good warm-up for deads.
Last edited by Kastro; 01-01-2009 at 11:45 PM.
Another good reason to deadlift after squatting is that is how you do it in competitions. This can teach you to deadlift when you are already tired.
Honestly, no matter how tired I am, deadlifts always seem easy to me (relative to all other lifts that is). Bench and squats, on the other hand, are always a b**** for me. This is why I like doing deads last. If I had to squat last, then my performance would suffer greatly.
Thus, a heavy squat session is going to deplete what strength and energy you have left for you deadlift. However, there are some options if you want to squat and deadlift on the same day.
One option to squat heavy/deadlift light to moderate in the same training session. During the next workout, squat light to moderate before you deadlift, then deadlift heavy.
Another option it to break up heavy squats and deadlifts on the same day. Squat heavy in the morning and then deadlift heavy in the afternoon. This allows more recovery.
The third option is to squat heavy one day and then deadlift heavy another day. This is usually the most effecitive method.
Kong, brihead301 and deeder have had success squatting and dealifting on the same day. So, you can make gains by performing both on the same day.
However, at some point it's better either set aside one day for squatting and one for deadlifting or to have a morning squat session and afternoon deadlift session. Doing so allows you to totally focus on that particular lift.
Working core exercises, such as the abdominaals, on the same day is a good idea.
Deadlifting (performing any lift) when your tired is an invitation for injury. Another problem, is that when you are tired, your technique is more apt to falter. Performing an exercise with bad form teaches you to perform the exercise incorrectly. To elicit the best training response, you want to train a lift when you are fresh.
The old addage of "Practice make perfect" need to be ammended to "Perfect makes perfect." That because continueing to perform/practice an exercise once your technique falls apart reinforces bad form, you learn to perform the exercise wrong. So, once your technique falls apart in any exercise, STOP.
Now a bit of history or how the lifting order was revised and why. The powerlifter order at meets was originally the bench first, squat and then deadlift. The problem with this lifting order was it did not provide enough recovery time from squatting to deadlifting. That was especially true for great squatters who were poor deadlifters.
A great squatter/poor deadlifter would be the last lifter to squat and the first lifter to deadlift. The great squatter/poor deadlifter would finish he last squat and barely have time to warm up for his/her deadlift.
The lifting order was then rearranged to what it is today. Now you squat first, bench and then deadlift. This allows more recovery time, insuring that you make your best deadlift.
So, you may squat at 10am and then deadlift at 3-4 pm.
With that in mind, to simulate meet conditions in your squat/deadlift training, your program would involve squatting in the morning and then deadlifting in the afternoon.
As you stated, "...that is how you do it in competition."
On a varsity football team, I do squats, deadlifting, AND bench press on the same day. But do what feels comfortable, man. But doing those 2 in the same day definitely won't hurt.