The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    ... weightlifting forever leetuck's Avatar
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    My partner is lifting weights, eating well and doing cardio but isnt losing weight

    Hi Guys,

    I could do with some advice ...

    Basically, over the last 7 years my partners weight has crept up from 133lbs to 168lbs. She hates her body like most women do and has never really eaten much at all. Most of the time she would get up and go to work and have nothing to eat until around 1pm. I think that on average she ate about 1000cals a day for years yet still put on weight. I gave her the usual advice about why eating way below maintenance won't do you any good etc but she still wasn't convinced and thought that not eating at all was the key!

    I finally convinced her that doing weights would help so last September she started training with me twice a week (lifting heavy). Her diet was still pi$$ poor though. Between Sept and January of this year she lost about 3lbs! As she only lost about 3lbs she thinks that I'm talking nonsense when i say lifting weights helps. So... i said it's cos your diet is poor that you arent losing weight.

    Now, for the past week she has been eating between 1500 and 1600 cals every day and always has breakfast (I get up every morning and make it her to make sure she has it) There have been no cheat meals and she has been following everything I told her to do. As I am doing UD2 at the moment she lifted weights 4 times (2 depletion workouts, 1 high intensity workout and a power workout). She also did a cardio session. I thought that eating better+weights+cardio would yield results BUT she is exactly the same weight! She feels like no matter what she does, she will not lose weight!

    What do I say to her? Should i just tell her to stick with the program of eating better+weights+cardio and things will work out in the end?

    I guess her metabolism is shot from years of under eating. Should I get her to overeat for a few weeks to try and get her body into an anabolic state?

    Any advice would be welcomed because I'm running out of ideas.

    Thanks
    Last edited by leetuck; 01-14-2009 at 05:22 PM.
    Lee

    Height: 6ft 4
    Current weight: 226 lbs

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  3. #2
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    Get her on a carb cycling diet. UD2 is an example but there are less extreme variations.

    Have you been measuring BF? She might be "recomposing"
    Last edited by ZenMonkey; 01-14-2009 at 05:25 PM.
    Sarvamangalam!

  4. #3
    ... weightlifting forever leetuck's Avatar
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    Her body does look a bit different actually but she looks a similar fat level. We did some measurements the other day so I'm going to leave it a month then see how she measures up then. I've got calipers but I've not been measuring body fat to be honest either but like i just said, she looks a similar fat level though.

    I thought about carb cycling... i thought that she could eat more on her gym days and less on rest days. Also, don't eat carbs after say 7pm.

    She wanted to follow me on UD2 but i said it would be 2 brutal for her.
    Lee

    Height: 6ft 4
    Current weight: 226 lbs

  5. #4
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    Yea, its a tough program. You could do something like (made up #s)

    WO Days = 2000cal/ moderate-Lots o carbs
    Cardio/ Off days = 1800 cal/ low carb
    Sarvamangalam!

  6. #5
    Senior Member Doobs's Avatar
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    What does she eat? What are her macros? Most women eat high carb and low fat, so watch out for that. Also, make sure she's lifting heavy with progressive resistance.

  7. #6
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
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    What is her exact diet. Post it here.

    All the talk people say about eating too far below maintenance is way overhyped. If you are eating less calories than you burn you will lose weight, the laws of thermodynamics cannot be denied. I'm sure over the last few years she has been starving herself but then eating crap every once and awhile meaning overall she was in a caloric surplus. It's the same reason why almost everyone gains slow weight over time even though they "think" they are eating clean. Most people have no idea how to truly eat or how restricted some people have to get in order to lose weight. Most girls do not have the muscle mass or activity level to actually lose any real amount of fat at 16-1800 calories.

    Unless she has kushings or some other extremely rare disease she can lose weight, period. If your saying a UD2 is too brutal for her then I really dont think her diet is restricted and consistant enough to be losing weight. You gotta remember how little muscle most women have and that even a lot of woman with tons of muscle still maintain at 1600. Girls have it a lot tougher, but it's still possible.
    Last edited by smalls; 01-14-2009 at 11:52 PM.
    Diet is key, the calorie is king

    "Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."
    --Abraham Lincoln

    "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
    Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination
    alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
    Calvin Coolidge (1872-1933)
    30th U.S. President

    "If you want to look abnormal you have to eat abnormal,lol."--ST

  8. #7
    ... weightlifting forever leetuck's Avatar
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    Smalls - You are right about the starvation then junk food eating every so often. I guess that whenever the extra calories are available the body partitions them straight to fat. I got her to read some of the UD2 science and she gets what he is saying... but still don't wanna believe it! Women!

    When i say UD2 will be too brutal for her I probably didn't use the correct term. On my low carb days I get cranky, at the moment she has a lot of stress on with work etc. If she has very low carb days, I don't know how it will affect her. Plus we don't want two cranky people in the house at the same time ... i may be murdered!

    Right, she is eating the following macros at the moment. Probably not the best macros to be honest but for the first few weeks I wanted her to actually get into a routine of having breakfast, lunch and evening meal (with snacks).

    Calories=1500cals
    112g Protein
    150g Carbs
    50g Fat

    This was just a canvas to work from. To be honest she prob has about 80g of Protien, slight more carbs and slightly more fat.

    Is this enough info for you? Any advice is appreciated.
    Last edited by leetuck; 01-15-2009 at 01:33 AM.
    Lee

    Height: 6ft 4
    Current weight: 226 lbs

  9. #8
    small flabby and hairy joelhall's Avatar
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    unfortunately the body is far more complex than just being applied to the law of thermodynamics. exactly what carb foods is she eating? and what does she do when shes not exercising?

  10. #9
    ... weightlifting forever leetuck's Avatar
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    Shes a teacher so doesn't have an active job at all.

    When she isn't exercising she is basically resting. We have no children to run around after or anything like that either.

    She has most of her carbs in the morning and afternoon which come from bread, yogurt, nut cereal bar(which is not full of sugar), some fruit. In the evening she will have either pasta or potatoes.
    Lee

    Height: 6ft 4
    Current weight: 226 lbs

  11. #10
    ... weightlifting forever leetuck's Avatar
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    An example of a daily food intake would be:
    Breakfast: 2 slices of toast with either cheese slices or 2 eggs
    Mid morning snack: Nut cereal bar
    Lunch: Ham/lettuce/cheese sandwiches, piece of fruit, yogurt, ribena drink(no sugar)
    Evening: mainly fish pie at the moment or a pasta salad and tuna

    Always eat evening meal after we do gym.

    Like i said... she is just getting into the routine of eating more regular. I think we need to address the macros.

    I still thought she would at least lose 1 lb in the last week
    Lee

    Height: 6ft 4
    Current weight: 226 lbs

  12. #11
    small flabby and hairy joelhall's Avatar
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    if i were her id drop the fruit and any other type of simple carb for a week or two, and purposely be more active during the day - even if it means running between classes walking to work (or part of the journey) and legging it up the stairs. metabolic manipulation is more important in healthy weight loss than cutting calories.

  13. #12
    ... weightlifting forever leetuck's Avatar
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    She normally walks to work and back, its about 10 mins walk each way.

    Would it be worth her trying an ECA stack as well?

    I think we are gonna have to sit down and the weekend and plan everything out again once I sap up as much info as poss this week from you guys
    Lee

    Height: 6ft 4
    Current weight: 226 lbs

  14. #13
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
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    Your Partner is eating too much or moving too little for her to lose weight, period, that's it. So you either get her to burn more each and every day by moving more, or she takes in less, consistently each and every day.

    Most people dont realize what you really have to get some women to lose any appreciable amount of weight. It has to be consistent and it has to be over a period of time. You state that you thought she would lose 1lb in that week. That's a normal thought and desire but for her to do that her deficit would have to be 3500 calories. My Wife has more muscle than most women, she lifts heavier than 99% of women in most any gym, she works 11 hour days on her feet and she couldnt lose 1lb a week on the diet you posted. Again, she either needs to burn off an extra 3500 calories every week or she needs to take in that much less, most people prefer a combination of both.

    IMO, the diet you put up seems too high in carbs and too low in protein. Get rid of one of the pieces of bread in the first meal and the sandwich, use egg whites and maybe one whole egg. Use tuna or chicken instead of sandwich meat, lose the cheese. Most yogurt is absolute crap but some can be high protein low carb, only use that option if you have it. Evening meal could be only chicken and veggies, maybe some brown rice, oats, yam whatever if it fits into her cals but if she isnt losing on it then drop it. And lose the cereal bar for something higher in protein, maybe 1/2 serving nuts and a small protein shake.

    1500 cals is usually a fine place to start with the average female but your going to have to adjust from there.
    Diet is key, the calorie is king

    "Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."
    --Abraham Lincoln

    "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
    Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination
    alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
    Calvin Coolidge (1872-1933)
    30th U.S. President

    "If you want to look abnormal you have to eat abnormal,lol."--ST

  15. #14
    Wannabebig Member
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    Aerobic exercises.
    Tell her to sprint or run for a while, and eat below maintenance and she'll shed off the pounds. I think she has shocked her body into thinking she's being starved so her body is storing energy, instead of using it. Also fat cells usually don't go away, but they shrink. Once she sheds off those pounds, she should stick to her routine.

  16. #15
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
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    Aerobic exercises in and of themselves are horrible for fat loss, not just inneficient, not just overhyped, horrible.

    Of course she should engage in aerobic activity. But as your post stated it's the below maintenance aspect that is important. Look at your average gym goer ESPECIALLY the ones who do lots of aerobic activity, look at chronic runners, look at the cardio bunnies that do 1.5 hours a day religiously. Is that what you want to look like. Diet is key, the calorie is king, period.

    Lift heavy weight and eat less, while doing cardiovascular activity for the health of your heart.
    Diet is key, the calorie is king

    "Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."
    --Abraham Lincoln

    "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
    Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination
    alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
    Calvin Coolidge (1872-1933)
    30th U.S. President

    "If you want to look abnormal you have to eat abnormal,lol."--ST

  17. #16
    Wannabebig Member Go Pre's Avatar
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    Estrogen = fat storing hormone. Testosterone = muscle building hormone. Women are at a disadvantage right from the start. Smalls is right though I would lean more towards not doing enough to burn calories. Whatever her cardio is, up the intensity a few times each week. It doesn't matter how many miles (for example) you run. The intensity is what is going to determin your fitness level.
    Currently: 5' 10" 181lbs
    Bench Press: 5x5 @ 265 RAW
    Dead Lifts: 3x8 @ 315 RAW

  18. #17
    Must...work...out... nockits's Avatar
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    whats wrong with doing just cardio instead of weights?
    say she eats around 2000 calories instead, and just does a lot of cardio? any opinions? because i know there are people out there who lose a lot of fat and dont use weights at all.

  19. #18
    Senior Member Doobs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nockits View Post
    whats wrong with doing just cardio instead of weights?
    say she eats around 2000 calories instead, and just does a lot of cardio? any opinions? because i know there are people out there who lose a lot of fat and dont use weights at all.
    So even though she's already gaining weight, you want her to eat more and do more cardio, and then stop weightlifting? As with anything fitness related, it all depends on the goals - if her goal is to get fatter, lose muscle, and look worse, then yes she should follow your advice.

  20. #19
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nockits View Post
    whats wrong with doing just cardio instead of weights?
    say she eats around 2000 calories instead, and just does a lot of cardio? any opinions? because i know there are people out there who lose a lot of fat and dont use weights at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doobs View Post
    So even though she's already gaining weight, you want her to eat more and do more cardio, and then stop weightlifting? As with anything fitness related, it all depends on the goals - if her goal is to get fatter, lose muscle, and look worse, then yes she should follow your advice.
    Doobs response mirrors mine. In addition. If all she did to lose
    weight was cardio she would lose more muscle, LOWERING HER METABOLISM even further. Meaning she would have to eat less or keep up the high level of cardio forever.

    Read my post again. Go look at the average runner, go look at the people at your gym who do cardio and cardio only every day.

    Losing weight while in a constantly catabolic state is a bad idea. Skinny fat is still unatractive, and relatively unhealthy.
    Last edited by smalls; 01-15-2009 at 08:45 PM.
    Diet is key, the calorie is king

    "Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."
    --Abraham Lincoln

    "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
    Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination
    alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
    Calvin Coolidge (1872-1933)
    30th U.S. President

    "If you want to look abnormal you have to eat abnormal,lol."--ST

  21. #20
    IRL my name is Trent Hazerboy's Avatar
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    I'm interested in where this thread is going too. My girlfriend is in a similar situation. She was anorexic for years, finally got her weight under control, and now she's put on some weight and doesn't know how to lose it.
    Stats: 11/15/07-First-meet--2nd Meet----3rd meet
    Weight: 185-----187---------198---------198
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    Max Squat: 405----395----------440------460
    Max Dead:475-----485----------551------570
    CHINUPS - Bodyweight + 135, x1, dead hang. Still working on the one arm chinup.

  22. #21
    ... weightlifting forever leetuck's Avatar
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    Hi Guys,

    I've been away for a few days ... so sorry i've not replied.

    Smalls - sorry to asking you for informaiton here but I see a lot of your posts and you know what you are talking about Are you saying that she should consistently eat less carbs than what i stated? Or should she periodically have refill days? I talked with my partner about UD2 and she said she will try the diet for a week to see if she can follow it . She already follows the training sessions so all she needs to do now is follow the diet. I will post some proposed numbers up here later to see what you guys think.

    Many thanks.
    Last edited by leetuck; 01-18-2009 at 02:47 AM.
    Lee

    Height: 6ft 4
    Current weight: 226 lbs

  23. #22
    ... weightlifting forever leetuck's Avatar
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    Right ... done some measurements with calipers and i've worked out that my partner is 25% fat. I thought this was a little low and assumed she would be a little higher but thats what it says.

    At 168lbs and 25% fat she has a a LBM of 127 lbs.

    Assuming that she is following me on UD2:

    Low Carb days will be as follows:
    127g Protein
    50g Carbs
    32g Fat
    ....approx 1000 cals

    High Carb reload day will be
    127g Protein
    823g Carbs
    32g Fat
    ..... approx 4100 cals

    Mainenance days (roughly):
    127g Protein
    150g Carbs
    35g Fat
    .... approx 1400 cals

    My partner is worried about eating over 800g of carbs on the refeed (thinks its impossible to get them all down) so would it be possible to drop this to say 500g? I know this mean't wont be strictly following the diet though.
    Last edited by leetuck; 01-18-2009 at 06:57 AM.
    Lee

    Height: 6ft 4
    Current weight: 226 lbs

  24. #23
    Must...work...out... nockits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalls View Post
    Doobs response mirrors mine. In addition. If all she did to lose
    weight was cardio she would lose more muscle, LOWERING HER METABOLISM even further. Meaning she would have to eat less or keep up the high level of cardio forever.

    Read my post again. Go look at the average runner, go look at the people at your gym who do cardio and cardio only every day.

    Losing weight while in a constantly catabolic state is a bad idea. Skinny fat is still unatractive, and relatively unhealthy.
    ah, i see. I didn't know this. I thought it would just lose weight, I didn't know there was much more to it than that.

    And the reason I said 2000 cals is because isn't it what the average person eats per day? So she wouldn't be gaining too much weight.

  25. #24
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leetuck View Post
    Right ... done some measurements with calipers and i've worked out that my partner is 25% fat. I thought this was a little low and assumed she would be a little higher but thats what it says.

    At 168lbs and 25% fat she has a a LBM of 127 lbs.

    Assuming that she is following me on UD2:

    Low Carb days will be as follows:
    127g Protein
    50g Carbs
    32g Fat
    ....approx 1000 cals

    High Carb reload day will be
    127g Protein
    823g Carbs
    32g Fat
    ..... approx 4100 cals

    Mainenance days (roughly):
    127g Protein
    150g Carbs
    35g Fat
    .... approx 1400 cals

    My partner is worried about eating over 800g of carbs on the refeed (thinks its impossible to get them all down) so would it be possible to drop this to say 500g? I know this mean't wont be strictly following the diet though.
    IMO, there is absolutely no need for a female her size to be getting 800 grams of carbs a day. Female competitors do nothing like that, ever. And they diet very successfully. Cut that in half or more.

    Also I think your right to assume she is higher than 25% BF if she clearly needs to lose weight she is probably higher. At 162 she is probably closer to 30% unless she is over 6 foot tall, or has tons of muscle.

    Consistently eating less calories than you burn while keeping protein sufficient and training with weights is the key. When in doubt, chicken and veggies. It really can be quite simple, not easy, but simple.
    Diet is key, the calorie is king

    "Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."
    --Abraham Lincoln

    "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
    Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination
    alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
    Calvin Coolidge (1872-1933)
    30th U.S. President

    "If you want to look abnormal you have to eat abnormal,lol."--ST

  26. #25
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nockits View Post
    ah, i see. I didn't know this. I thought it would just lose weight, I didn't know there was much more to it than that.

    And the reason I said 2000 cals is because isn't it what the average person eats per day? So she wouldn't be gaining too much weight.
    The fact that you can openly admit not knowing something puts you above 90% of the population, so congrats. 2000 calories is an average for all men and women and I really dont know how accurate it is. At 2000 cals most women will probably maintain but very few can lose weight with real consistency on that.
    Diet is key, the calorie is king

    "Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."
    --Abraham Lincoln

    "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
    Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination
    alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
    Calvin Coolidge (1872-1933)
    30th U.S. President

    "If you want to look abnormal you have to eat abnormal,lol."--ST

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