The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    A gallon a day, everyday! ThomasG's Avatar
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    Why do carbs make you gain fat?

    I have a basic understanding of carbs. I know that we need them for energy, glycogen. However, why do they promote fat gain? People on low carb diets who workout isnt that very stressful and bad for the muscles?

    Anyways any info and link would be appreciated.

    Also If someone could explain the difference between complex and simple carbs would be great as well.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by ThomasG; 01-18-2009 at 07:57 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    you're an intelligent guy... but you're also half #$%&ing crazy... and that my friend is the formula for a great powerlifter.
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  3. #2
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    http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec12/ch152/ch152b.html

    not really sure how to post links but heres one that will hopefully help

  4. #3
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    ah, it worked...lol hope that its useful. By the way, any excess calories (carbs, prot, fats) that are not used for energy or to build muscle can be stored as fat in the body
    Last edited by king8329; 01-18-2009 at 10:15 PM.

  5. #4
    The beast within
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    well, carbs don't make you fat....but when there is an excess, the body will burn those carbs instead of the fat it would ordinarily be burning. This is why if you're cutting, you should stray from a lot of carbs at night, bc then when you're sleeping your body will be burning through the carbs at a higher % than fat. (But anyone correct me if other ideas are present.)

    I have read though - a good book is by Chris Carmichael's Food for Fitness - that the body actually rarely stores even excess carbs as fat....fat burning is just slowed...which eventually accumulates.
    Last edited by Puddle_Pirate; 01-19-2009 at 06:48 AM.

  6. #5
    humble the proud kevowamo's Avatar
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    blood sugar/glucose levels is your answer
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  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevowamo View Post
    blood sugar/glucose levels is your answer
    Good answer, I think more thoroughly though its that they cause an insulin release, that signals your body to stop burning fat and start storing it.

  8. #7
    Ich bin Legende. Torrok's Avatar
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    lol they dont. that is if you know what you're doing
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  9. #8
    A gallon a day, everyday! ThomasG's Avatar
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    haha looking back at my old threads and loling at myself. It's crazy how much more knowledge in the are of nutrition I have and once you understand it how simple it really is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    you're an intelligent guy... but you're also half #$%&ing crazy... and that my friend is the formula for a great powerlifter.
    23 Years old
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    Squat-565(wraps) 560(Raw)
    Bench:365(raw)
    Deadlift:555(raw)
    Front Squat-465x1 (wraps) 405x2 (raw)
    AtLarge Nutrition Optimize your body and Support WBB

  10. #9
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    Carbs will raise blood sugar. A raised blood sugar will cause an insulin response in the body. Insulin is a storage and stress hormone. Storage is the "fattening' part, if there are enough extra calories. Fat produces no insulin response. Excess protein will, if there is a large enough excess that it gets broken down to carbs.
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  11. #10
    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manowar669 View Post
    Carbs will raise blood sugar. A raised blood sugar will cause an insulin response in the body. Insulin is a storage and stress hormone. Storage is the "fattening' part, if there are enough extra calories. Fat produces no insulin response. Excess protein will, if there is a large enough excess that it gets broken down to carbs.
    Protein rich foods have a similar insulin index as carbohydrate rich foods. Beef actually has a higher value than white-pasta. And fat rich foods with refined carbs with them are the same way.

    At the end of the day though, thermodynamics is what matters. If you were most concerned about body fat gain while in a surplus of Calories, you'd pay most attention to dietary fat because of the efficacy of it being stored.
    First Bulk pics VS Starting pics, take a look!! http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=1#post1616109

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    Generally, if you read a piece of advice on the internet, assume it's wrong until proven otherwise. This applies especially to "conventional wisdom". -Belial

  12. #11
    Rory Parker Behemoth's Avatar
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    I find the more I learn the more amazed I am at just how complex and not understood it really is
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  13. #12
    Senior Member Allen Cress's Avatar
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    It all depends on the individual and their metabolism, insulin sensitivity, leptin sensitivity, etc.... as to what causes fat storage. I have clients that are on high carb low fat, moderate carb moderate fat, etc.... There is never a black and white answer when it comes to what causes fat storgae as everyone is different.

    Make no mistake carbs are needed even when leaning out, just properly portioned depending on the person.

  14. #13
    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    In an energy surplus, fat is the most efficient macro nutrient for being stored as fat.

    Carbohydrates in an energy surplus do not typically get stored as fat. This is a last resort of the body anyways. De novo lipogensis converting excess carbohydrate into body fat is relatively small.

    So again, at the end of the day, the amount of excess Calories is going to matter the most.. not carbohydrates, fat, combining different macro nutrients, avoiding certain foods, or whatever else you wanna include.
    First Bulk pics VS Starting pics, take a look!! http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=1#post1616109

    Progress pics of a cut using bodyweight only movements http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...45#post2405745

    Generally, if you read a piece of advice on the internet, assume it's wrong until proven otherwise. This applies especially to "conventional wisdom". -Belial

  15. #14
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    I find the more I learn the more amazed I am at just how complex and not understood it really is
    Yup, you go full circle - ignorant to overwhelmed to knowing you're ignorant!

    Leave the complicated stuff to your body, it'll figure it out without you (there's only so much you can do to affect change anyway), all you need is the simple stuff done consistently well.

  16. #15
    Rory Parker Behemoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Roberts View Post
    all you need is the simple stuff done consistently well
    Ahh... thats like poetry its so beautiful
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  17. #16
    260(-62) from 193 from 275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
    Ahh... thats like poetry its so beautiful
    I'll second that.

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  18. #17
    Senior Member Invain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manowar669 View Post
    Carbs will raise blood sugar. A raised blood sugar will cause an insulin response in the body. Insulin is a storage and stress hormone. Storage is the "fattening' part, if there are enough extra calories. Fat produces no insulin response. Excess protein will, if there is a large enough excess that it gets broken down to carbs.
    Everything you eat causes an insulin response. Obviously the response varies, but still. Also, some proteins, such as whey, have very high GI ratings, even higher than some simple carbs.
    Last edited by Invain; 11-19-2010 at 05:02 PM.
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  19. #18
    Senior Member Invain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    In an energy surplus, fat is the most efficient macro nutrient for being stored as fat.

    Carbohydrates in an energy surplus do not typically get stored as fat. This is a last resort of the body anyways. De novo lipogensis converting excess carbohydrate into body fat is relatively small.

    So again, at the end of the day, the amount of excess Calories is going to matter the most.. not carbohydrates, fat, combining different macro nutrients, avoiding certain foods, or whatever else you wanna include.
    Except for the fact that excess glucose can very easily be stored as glycerol, which makes triglyceride synthesis that much easier.
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  20. #19
    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Invain View Post
    Everything you eat causes an insulin response. Obviously the response varies, but still. Also, some proteins, such as whey, have very high GI ratings, even higher than some simple carbs.
    Yea, because Gl = Insulin index, right? You're using the GI terms with the Insulin Index terms interchangeably, which is non sense. The GI has been shown not to always correlate with the Insulin index. Further more, the protein rich foods actually do have a lower GI. The Insulin index of pure protein, however, is higher than some carbohydrate rankings despite the higher GI of the carbohydrates.




    Quote Originally Posted by Invain View Post
    Except for the fact that excess glucose can very easily be stored as glycerol, which makes triglyceride synthesis that much easier.
    What a blanket statement. It all depends. Under hypercaloric conditions, the consumption of high carbohydrate meals is followed by a matching degree of carbohydrate oxidation. Fat has been shown to be the most efficient at being stored as body fat. Fat storage is generally preferred under hypercaloric conditions with high fat meals.

    Jequier E, Tappy L. Regulation of body weight in humans. Physiol Rec 1999;79(2):451-80

    I'll agree that ingesting a lot of carbohydrates can suppress fat oxidation, but it's only half of the story.

    "Lipogenesis simply means the formation of new fat cells from glycerol and three fatty acids. Theoretically, the body can convert carbohydrates to triglyceride (a process called de novo lipogenesis) but most studies indicate that this contributes only minimally to total fat storage under most normal dietary conditions." Lyle McDonald "The Stubborn Fat Solution."

    There are some older studies in the 1980's that suggest DNL could be more significant but most recent research points out that it is not.

    Therefore, I'll restate what I said earlier. Despite all the science mumbo-jumpo, total Calories matter most at the end of the day.
    First Bulk pics VS Starting pics, take a look!! http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=1#post1616109

    Progress pics of a cut using bodyweight only movements http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...45#post2405745

    Generally, if you read a piece of advice on the internet, assume it's wrong until proven otherwise. This applies especially to "conventional wisdom". -Belial

  21. #20
    Senior Member Invain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    Yea, because Gl = Insulin index, right? You're using the GI terms with the Insulin Index terms interchangeably, which is non sense. The GI has been shown not to always correlate with the Insulin index. Further more, the protein rich foods actually do have a lower GI. The Insulin index of pure protein, however, is higher than some carbohydrate rankings despite the higher GI of the carbohydrates.

    Yeah that was my mistake, I meant Insulin response when I typed GI, wasn't thinking. My point was amino acids can be more insulinogenic than carbs.
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  22. #21
    Senior Member Invain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    What a blanket statement. It all depends. Under hypercaloric conditions, the consumption of high carbohydrate meals is followed by a matching degree of carbohydrate oxidation. Fat has been shown to be the most efficient at being stored as body fat. Fat storage is generally preferred under hypercaloric conditions with high fat meals.

    Jequier E, Tappy L. Regulation of body weight in humans. Physiol Rec 1999;79(2):451-80

    I'll agree that ingesting a lot of carbohydrates can suppress fat oxidation, but it's only half of the story.

    "Lipogenesis simply means the formation of new fat cells from glycerol and three fatty acids. Theoretically, the body can convert carbohydrates to triglyceride (a process called de novo lipogenesis) but most studies indicate that this contributes only minimally to total fat storage under most normal dietary conditions." Lyle McDonald "The Stubborn Fat Solution."

    There are some older studies in the 1980's that suggest DNL could be more significant but most recent research points out that it is not.

    Therefore, I'll restate what I said earlier. Despite all the science mumbo-jumpo, total Calories matter most at the end of the day.
    Exactly what about my post was a blanket statement? "Carbohydrates in an energy surplus do not typically get stored as fat." I don't believe this to be true. Lipogenesis is not the same thing as trigylceride synthesis.
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  23. #22
    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Invain View Post
    Exactly what about my post was a blanket statement? "Carbohydrates in an energy surplus do not typically get stored as fat." I don't believe this to be true. Lipogenesis is not the same thing as trigylceride synthesis.
    What? Lipogenesis means making fat cells (triglycerides) from glycerol and 3 free fatty acids. So literally, "lipo" (fat) "genesis" (making). When there is an absence of carbohydrates, the body can convert Pyruvate, lactate and different amino acids into glucose for the fat cell to absorb, convert to glycerol, and bind to the fatty acids. Bam, you have TG's which makes up the majority of stored fat. So I'm saying pointing the finger at carbohydrates alone is a blanket statement. DNL doesnt show significant fat storage.

    Excess Calories in general is the biggest culprit..but fat has the best storage capabilities.
    Last edited by RichMcGuire; 11-22-2010 at 01:45 AM.
    First Bulk pics VS Starting pics, take a look!! http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=1#post1616109

    Progress pics of a cut using bodyweight only movements http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...45#post2405745

    Generally, if you read a piece of advice on the internet, assume it's wrong until proven otherwise. This applies especially to "conventional wisdom". -Belial

  24. #23
    Senior Member Invain's Avatar
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    Lipogenesis isn't defined in any of my Biochemistry books, but, according to Wiki: Lipogenesis is the process by which acetyl-CoA is converted to fats (aka fatty acid synthesis). Says nothing about creating fat cells. There's a big difference between a fat 'cell' and a fat 'molecule'. I'm curious where you're getting your information from.

    You mention gluconeogenesis, which is not energetically favorable. This is the reason why I said excess carbs can be stored as glycerol in adipose tissue, much like glycogen in muscle cells.

    I also have never said carbohydrates alone are the reason people gain fat. I do believe they play a bigger role than the other two macro nutrients however.
    Best lifts: 615/475/660, Raw w/ Wraps
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  25. #24
    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    I'll add more when I have time tonight but I never said fat cells are created via hyperplasia. I said tg's are created. Big difference.
    First Bulk pics VS Starting pics, take a look!! http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=1#post1616109

    Progress pics of a cut using bodyweight only movements http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...45#post2405745

    Generally, if you read a piece of advice on the internet, assume it's wrong until proven otherwise. This applies especially to "conventional wisdom". -Belial

  26. #25
    Senior Member Invain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post

    "Lipogenesis simply means the formation of new fat cells from glycerol and three fatty acids. "
    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    What? Lipogenesis means making fat cells (triglycerides) from glycerol and 3 free fatty acids.


    Are these typos then?
    Last edited by Invain; 11-22-2010 at 03:49 PM.
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