The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Scuzzbucket is numero uno Scuzzbucket's Avatar
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    I want to start using Russian kettle bells with my routine, but...

    ...not quite sure when and how to do it.

    I did do a search before I asked, and found this: http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...n+kettle+bells

    The guy wrote a pretty good article, but my question is how to fuse RKB into my routine w/o overtraining myself.

    Here is my pre-existing routine:

    Monday is Chest and Biceps
    Tuesday is Legs Day
    Wednesday I do Core and Cardio
    Thursday is Delts and Tris
    Friday Off
    Saturday is Back, Abs, and Calves
    Sunday is eff-off day when I hit the heavy bag, jump rope, or other piddly stuff only because there's a lot of good lookin' wimmins at my gym on Sunday afternoon.

    I do all the basic power building lifts (barbell bench press, squats, deads, power cleans, chins, dips, etc.).

    To provide you with some further insight, here are my stats:
    I'm 6'1" tall, weigh 203 lbs. (w/ gym clothes on) and was approximately 11% body fat 2 weeks ago. I just began a bulking diet so that may have gone up a little. The only supplements I use are ProLab NLarge2, ProLab Creatine and Glutamine, and some fish oil tabs. I also finished off a can on M-Stak, but I'm not sure if it did a damn thing (if anyone has insight into that, I'd like to hear it as well).

    I want to be both more muscular and defined not just as a matter of personal preference, but to help me out on the gridiron as well. I play in an adult recreation football league and because a lot of my teammates are skinny little junior college kids (who are fast as hell I might add), I was stuck on the O & D-Lines.

    At Defensive End I held my own pretty well as I'm quick in short bursts and elusive -- one guy desribed blocking me was like "trying to tackle a worm." On the offensive side however, I got beat the eff up! Rarely did I line up against someone smaller than me, and with the predominantly industrial economy here in Wyo, I faced some freakishly strong individuals.

    Any insight would be greatly appreciated!
    "Always find something to fuel your growth, and know that each rep brings you closer to your goal." - Tommi Thorvildsen
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  3. #2
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    Why do you want to add the KB stuff? Is it because it looks cool, or are you looking for a specific benefit from it? Know what your goal is and only do things that support that goal. Don't fall into the trap of adding things that look cool, but don't help you achieve your goals.

    If you want to get bigger, then I'd focus on squat, deadlift, bench, overhead press, chins, and rowing. The KB stuff could play a roll in terms of flexibility, prehab, conditioning, etc. That stuff is important, since staying injury free supports your goal. I wouldn't make them a main focus though.
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  4. #3
    Smeagol on Steroids Mercuryblade's Avatar
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    Do you do deads on your legs day or your back day?
    http://www.senseaboutscience.org.uk/

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  5. #4
    Senior Member tomv's Avatar
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    How many exercises are you looking at doing? 3 sets of swings or a whole session of KB work?
    My Journal

    Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.

  6. #5
    Scuzzbucket is numero uno Scuzzbucket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusWild View Post
    Why do you want to add the KB stuff? Is it because it looks cool, or are you looking for a specific benefit from it?
    As I stated in my OP, I'm trying to both add mass and strength for a rec football league I'm in. And because I know RKB works. Not to look cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercuryblade View Post
    Do you do deads on your legs day or your back day?
    Back day.

    Quote Originally Posted by tomv View Post
    How many exercises are you looking at doing? 3 sets of swings or a whole session of KB work?
    That's what I'm wondering. I want to fuse RKB in with my current routine hopefully keeping some of the more aesthetic building exercises in there. But if I have to sacrifice the pretty stuff for RKB, I will.

    I guess 3 sets of swings is a good place to start?
    "Always find something to fuel your growth, and know that each rep brings you closer to your goal." - Tommi Thorvildsen
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  7. #6
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Swings and Turkish Get-Ups would be the place to start. You could certainly do them on your "core and cardio" day, or add them at the end of a training session. There are a lot of good tutorials on YouTube - look up the Art of Strength and KettlebellAthletics videos. I think I've posted links before, but I'm too lazy to search for them right now.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
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  8. #7
    Scuzzbucket is numero uno Scuzzbucket's Avatar
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    Out-damn-standing.

    And every time I hear them scream "SOMEONE BLOCK THE F------ BALD GUY!!!!" I'll owe it all to you guys.











    Well, some of it anyways.
    "Always find something to fuel your growth, and know that each rep brings you closer to your goal." - Tommi Thorvildsen
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  9. #8
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    If you goal is to add mass, then I'm not sure I'd add them. Do you know anyone that's gotten big from KB exercises?
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  10. #9
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    Yeah, I don't think KB's really fit the bill here. Maybe I'm wrong.

    Power development? OK. Strength endurance? Probably, once you get the techniques down, which could take a long time.

    But overall mass and strength? There are faster ways to skin a cat, IMHO.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusWild View Post
    If you goal is to add mass, then I'm not sure I'd add them. Do you know anyone that's gotten big from KB exercises?
    Quote Originally Posted by Brad08 View Post
    Yeah, I don't think KB's really fit the bill here. Maybe I'm wrong.

    Power development? OK. Strength endurance? Probably, once you get the techniques down, which could take a long time.

    But overall mass and strength? There are faster ways to skin a cat, IMHO.
    I'm thinking along the lines of these. The weights are limited/fixed and the exercises, while not bad, aren't real keen to mass building I don't think, with the exception of maybe a press or grip work.
    Unless you are looking to keep them in as an (expensive) accessory, I wouldn't really bother too much with them.

  12. #11
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    I'm certainly no expert on KBs but people seem to use them either (a) as a very specific sport in and of itself, or (b) in a strenght-endurance fashion, doing lots of sets for time with moderate poundage. You don't see people going for heavy triples in the KB two-handed snatch.

    Just for the record, I'm not down on KBs at all, they just don't seem like the right tool for this job.
    Last edited by Brad08; 03-25-2009 at 08:38 AM.

  13. #12
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    KBs are definitely not the best tool for hypertrophy or raw strength (unless you're small and weak).

    But, as a tool for posterior chain development, shoulder stability, strength-endurance (being able to hit hard repeatedly), and general conditioning, you'd be hard pressed to find something better.

    I'm not really trying to sell anyone on kettlebells, but there is something to be said for the benefits of fast tempo reps in weight training. I don't really want to turn this thread into a big argument and I love WS as much as most, but the idea that a DE box squat is the same thing as, for example, a clean, just doesn't do it for me. "Quick lifts", like cleans, and "quasi-plyometric" training modes, like kettlebells are important to a lot of athletic qualities. I don't think you get those with a lot of other training approaches. Do you need kettlebells for a lot of those things? Probably not, but the tool does lend itself nicely to some exercises.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    KBs are definitely not the best tool for hypertrophy or raw strength (unless you're small and weak).

    But, as a tool for posterior chain development, shoulder stability, strength-endurance (being able to hit hard repeatedly), and general conditioning, you'd be hard pressed to find something better.
    For his goals, what would be the benefit of a KB over a set of DBs?

  15. #14
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    You can do swings and TGUs with dumbbells, but it's harder to do them safely. If you haven't spent much time with these exercises (and I mean spend time with them, not just "try" them), it will be hard to explain why they are the "shizzle".

    In PL/OL terms, the swing is kind of like the Dimel DL except different. The Turkish Get-Up is kind of like the overhead squat, but different.

    The learning curve with kettlebells is not particularly steep. It's always nice to have some good coaching and an eye for technique, but not anywhere near as hard to learn as the OLs.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  16. #15
    Senior Member tomv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    If you haven't spent much time with these exercises (and I mean spend time with them, not just "try" them), it will be hard to explain why they are the "shizzle".
    Bahahaha.
    My Journal

    Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.

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