Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 51

Thread: ME exercises for raw lifters

  1. #1
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Westside Barbell, OH
    Posts
    8,920

    ME exercises for raw lifters

    This was posted by DGabe in the Louie Simmons thread but since it wasn't a question for Lou, I moved it here so you guys can discuss it.

    Where is the line drawn between Raw and Equipped training? By this I mean, what exercises would be more geared(no pun) toward someone lifting equipped, and which are more beneficial for the raw lifter.

    I know guys with shirts have much less trouble getting out of the hole and focus on lockout strength..etc.

    Another example would be box squats which are really tough on the hips and many raw lifters can easily overtrain because of not having briefs.

    As a raw bencher (for now) I focus on floor presses, pin presses, to help my strength off my chest. What other exercises are recommended for raw lifters?

    So basically, are there any major variations that are made for raw lifters vs equipped?


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

    Superior Athletics - Northeast Ohio's Center for Athlete Training
    *Westside Barbell Certified Gym

  2. #2
    JERSEY IRON Brian C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    5,399
    This is a great question. I was thinking of a question similar. If you like to train RAW and equipped(non meet training) what type of lifts are recommended or used that will increase proficiency in both. I guess im trying to get at what will help increase your raw lift off the chest, but also be beneficial for equipped training? Or should you train totally seperate for both, like rotate weeks....(I think I asked that right)
    JERSEY IRON POWERLIFTING
    198/220 Pro
    Currenty ranked #1 198 Multiply
    Best meet lifts @220 840/650/575
    Best meet lifts @198 875/585/630
    Best Raw Lifts @198 650/425/575
    Journal:http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=122706

    Eater of: 61 Buffalo wings in 8 minutes
    20 hotdogs+buns in 30 minutes

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    2,486
    This is what I do for people that train with us raw. We scale back the accommodation. I'm not sure it makes sense for a raw lifter to use a reverse blue band. They use reverse purple instead. When they bench against bands, they use less tension. When they use chains, they use less of them. They don't use boards as often and never really go above a 2-bd. Their tricep training is about the same. They need more lat volume on accessories, since lats are critical to their starting strength.
    www.wildirongym.com
    Become a fan of Wild Iron on Facebook:
    http://tinyurl.com/WildIron

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    syracuse ny
    Posts
    300
    when i am out of my shirt or after i like feet up in the air rest pauses off the chest. takes a few times for balance but blasts the chest.

  5. #5
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Westside Barbell, OH
    Posts
    8,920
    DB bench is good for power off the chest ,so is cambered bar bench.

    I train raw most of the time. I get in my shirt about once a month or so, unless I'm breaking in a new shirt, in which case I do my raw work first and then just take some light singles off boards to break in the shirt

    I use combinations of heavy band tension and chain weight. I'll change my grips around which I really find makes a huge difference.

    One thing I learned from my last training cycle was when I didn't use lots of tension weight (never went higher than doubled monster minis) I lost my ability to grind lifts out. This also was partly induced by not using closer grips enough. So what I've been doing is working up to a grinder single with a closer grip and then hitting the same weight with comp grip for a second set.

    For instance, this week I'm going to use 3 sets of chain (150lbs) and doubled monster mini bands (+110) full range with pinkie on the ring grip and then hit the same weight with comp grip.


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

    Superior Athletics - Northeast Ohio's Center for Athlete Training
    *Westside Barbell Certified Gym

  6. #6
    Got Intensity? DGabe24's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    1,691
    Wow, for a while I thought I must have had a dream about typing that question up. I'm not big on starting new threads, but I guess this was worth it..thanks Travis.


    From what I gathered, as a raw lifter..floor presses, and 1-2 boards will help a lot with lower sticking points. My lockout isn't as much of an issue as just getting the weight high enough to engage more triceps.

    Hopefully with some light bands, boards, and floor presses...my raw bench will really shoot up. I'd like to take raw lifting as far possible before thinking about equipped.


    I'll switch up grips too like you said, sounds good.
    Don't asker for a light load, but a strong back.

    JOURNAL


    Best Meet Lifts @ 220 Raw:
    Squat - 475
    Bench - 355
    Dead - 500
    Total: 1330

  7. #7
    GFH Lones Green's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    6,863
    Yeah, raw benchers would see great carry over with DB presses and cambered bar bench for strength off the chest. I train my bench almost identically to Travis, because it works. Lot of raw stuff, not a lot of shirted stuff. Benching raw is funner, I think.

    As for raw squatting I think if I trained raw, the first thing I'd do is move my stance in some. That will alleviate some of the hip pain. If you are totally against moving the stance in some, get some loose Frantz briefs to wear in training. They'll protect your hips and shouldn't give you much at all. I think I'd still squat off a box though

    Deadlift for me is trained the same either way. 90% of the reason I wear a deadlift suit is to protect my hips, I haven't found anything thats given me more than 20 or 30 lbs or so. If I pulled raw all the time I'd pull conventional, though
    23 years old
    6'3, 308 lbs

    825 Squat
    470 Bench
    645 Deadlift
    1905 total
    www.atlargenutrition.com

  8. #8
    Got Intensity? DGabe24's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    1,691
    How would you guys recommend working the DB presses in?

    ME days, after the ME lift maybe? 3-4 sets?
    Don't asker for a light load, but a strong back.

    JOURNAL


    Best Meet Lifts @ 220 Raw:
    Squat - 475
    Bench - 355
    Dead - 500
    Total: 1330

  9. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    89
    A raw bencher MUST do lots of full ROM ME exercises that has lots of emphasis on pecs and delts.

  10. #10
    Da Bears slashkills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Joliet, IL
    Posts
    2,749
    Quote Originally Posted by DGabe24 View Post
    How would you guys recommend working the DB presses in?

    ME days, after the ME lift maybe? 3-4 sets?
    3-4 sets of 15-20 reps

  11. #11
    TJW
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    4,150
    Travis has told me to use 3-4 sets of 6-8 reps to make sure you are using heavy DBs.

  12. #12
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Westside Barbell, OH
    Posts
    8,920
    Quote Originally Posted by slashkills View Post
    3-4 sets of 15-20 reps
    ^this on DE day

    Quote Originally Posted by gatorman2k6 View Post
    Travis has told me to use 3-4 sets of 6-8 reps to make sure you are using heavy DBs.
    ^this on ME day


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

    Superior Athletics - Northeast Ohio's Center for Athlete Training
    *Westside Barbell Certified Gym

  13. #13
    Da Bears slashkills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Joliet, IL
    Posts
    2,749
    Wow, really misread the question. I dont think i could even do that much after ME day.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    2,617
    I, too, have noticed a large increase in strength from DB bench presses. Sometimes I work up to a max set of 10, sometimes I go for 4 x 12 with a pretty heavy (for me) weight. I also occasionally add in DB incline presses or DB floor presses. My strength off of the chest has really taken off since I've stuck with them for awhile.


    I also liked cambered bar bench, too. I only did it twice, both times for a 5 rep max, which I then repeated for volume purposes. I also used a 2 board when I did it so that I wasn't over rotating my shoulders, but still had to drop my arms and shoulders lower than a normal bench press.

  15. #15
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Westside Barbell, OH
    Posts
    8,920
    Quote Originally Posted by jbrin0tk View Post
    I, too, have noticed a large increase in strength from DB bench presses. Sometimes I work up to a max set of 10, sometimes I go for 4 x 12 with a pretty heavy (for me) weight. I also occasionally add in DB incline presses or DB floor presses. My strength off of the chest has really taken off since I've stuck with them for awhile.


    I also liked cambered bar bench, too. I only did it twice, both times for a 5 rep max, which I then repeated for volume purposes. I also used a 2 board when I did it so that I wasn't over rotating my shoulders, but still had to drop my arms and shoulders lower than a normal bench press.
    Now here is a guy who gets it! You've learned to listen to your body and go by feel. Very good work Jesse. You have come a very long ways in your training knowledge and it shows in your strength.


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

    Superior Athletics - Northeast Ohio's Center for Athlete Training
    *Westside Barbell Certified Gym

  16. #16
    JERSEY IRON Brian C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    5,399
    Great insight guys. I have to really start incorporating more DB work. This sounds like where my answer lies. Ive been fairing well when shirted with good steady increases, but have stalled a bit in RAW training off the chest. Thank you
    JERSEY IRON POWERLIFTING
    198/220 Pro
    Currenty ranked #1 198 Multiply
    Best meet lifts @220 840/650/575
    Best meet lifts @198 875/585/630
    Best Raw Lifts @198 650/425/575
    Journal:http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=122706

    Eater of: 61 Buffalo wings in 8 minutes
    20 hotdogs+buns in 30 minutes

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    2,617
    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    Now here is a guy who gets it! You've learned to listen to your body and go by feel. Very good work Jesse. You have come a very long ways in your training knowledge and it shows in your strength.
    Thank you, Travis. I appreciate the compliment. Like I said in another thread, much of what I have learned has come from you and others like you who were willing to be helpful and share information with me.

  18. #18
    Senior Member jmccown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    388
    On my ME day I usually work up to a single, warm up with sets of 5 in 50lb jumps each set till I hit 75% and then drop to 3's. Once I get to the 90% range I go to singles. Afterwards I'll do 2 sets of DB presses as many as I can do. This week I done a set of 27 my first set with 100lb DB (biggest ones I have) and a second set for 22 reps with same weight. I know I need to do less reps but I do more reps because I don't have heavier DB's.

    Do you guys think triceps and lats should be incorporated on both ME and DE days? Or would that be overtraining?
    Best lifts

    Bench Raw 560 Equipped 725 single ply
    Deadlift 750

  19. #19
    Da Bears slashkills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Joliet, IL
    Posts
    2,749
    I do lats on both days. I try and go heavier on one day and lighter with more reps on the second day.

    What kind of floor should you do floor presses on? right now im working out in my basement with a concrete floor. Within a few weeks we will have carpeting though.
    Last edited by slashkills; 04-07-2009 at 08:48 AM.

  20. #20
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Westside Barbell, OH
    Posts
    8,920
    Quote Originally Posted by jmccown View Post

    Do you guys think triceps and lats should be incorporated on both ME and DE days? Or would that be overtraining?
    I always do my ascessory work on DE and ME days



    Quote Originally Posted by slashkills View Post
    What kind of floor should you do floor presses on? right now im working out in my basement with a concrete floor. Within a few weeks we will have carpeting though.
    Flooring isn't super important


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

    Superior Athletics - Northeast Ohio's Center for Athlete Training
    *Westside Barbell Certified Gym

  21. #21
    Got Intensity? DGabe24's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    1,691
    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    I always do my ascessory work on DE and ME days
    Same, although I do lats on squat day. If I did it on ME/DE bench days my upper back tends knot up when I stay tight with squats or keep an arch with GM's.
    Don't asker for a light load, but a strong back.

    JOURNAL


    Best Meet Lifts @ 220 Raw:
    Squat - 475
    Bench - 355
    Dead - 500
    Total: 1330

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Rock Falls IL
    Posts
    740
    I am by no means a raw expert but I have some exsperience on the bench. You can basically train the same way raw as you would equiped to gain strength and speed. Utilize bands, chains, and boards. Bands and chains to work your speed and overload your lock out and boards to target your weak points. This isn't rocket science guys want big bench raw or equiped move big weight. Shock your CNS and get it used to the beatings. Make sure your good and warmed up before you start your heavy sets raw.

    Stay tuned for a new kind of record for the old man.....................

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    563
    what? You gonnna set a record for how many family size tuscani pastas you can eat? Just leave the order taker alone....she doesnt know you! lol
    Sponsored by:
    OverKill Strength Equipment
    APT ProWristStraps

    Success is usually achieved by always doing a little more than you thought you could, and a lot more than anyone else.

    Don't measure yourself by what you have accomplished, but by what you should accomplish with your ability." John Wooden

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Rock Falls IL
    Posts
    740
    Quote Originally Posted by bencher8 View Post
    what? You gonnna set a record for how many family size tuscani pastas you can eat? Just leave the order taker alone....she doesnt know you! lol

    Nope Pizza hut ranks right up ther with Inzer in my book. Not only is Stealth Inc. th next big thing but Angelo's Pizza in my area rocks. Home of the 15 lbs spaggetti pizza.

  25. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    150
    15 lb spaghetti wow! What kind of record are you going for maybe a raw record or full meet equipped? What ever the record good luck.

    On the topic lift heavy & hammer lats, if you use boards do not cheat and bounce the weight if you do, it will not help you over come your sticking points as well.

Similar Threads

  1. More ideas on westside vs HFT for raw lifters.
    By Fuzzy in forum Powerlifting and Strength Training
    Replies: 124
    Last Post: 12-04-2009, 09:28 PM
  2. Westside Template Made Easy
    By Sensei in forum Powerlifting and Strength Training
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 12-25-2005, 01:26 AM
  3. # of exercises for shoulders and back!
    By ThreeD in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-06-2003, 06:36 AM
  4. why doing so many differents exercises ?
    By Gavan in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 09-26-2003, 03:23 PM
  5. Elbows and tricep exercises
    By DaCypher in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 06-13-2002, 12:08 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •