The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Must...work...out... nockits's Avatar
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    P90x vs. what we do

    Alright, before you start thinkin "whats this fool want with p90x, has he lost his mind?" hear me out.

    Quite a few of my friends are thinking of starting P90x during the summer break. They wanted to become muscular and ripped (who doesn't, right? *rolls eyes*). A couple of them knew I was lifting heavy (starting strength), and asked me why I wasn't on a program like P90x, because "they read that just lifting heavy and not doing cardio is bad, everyone needs cardio! lifting heavy isn't enough...", etc. etc. I explained that I do what I do to gain the maximum strength and size I can, I didn't really have anything to back up the cardio statement however, because I really didn't know too much about it, I didn't want to mislead them.
    They keep insisting that with P90x, they can get HYOOGE in only 3 months with this "killer diet" and hours of work with the "ab ripper" and the plyometrics this, and cardio that. From what I know of this program, it seems that it's for weight loss and some kind of endurance training. Lots of isolation, and not the simple big lifts that I've learned to love. Any real strength or size benefits with this thing? A couple of them are willing to try what I do, but they want to know the pros and cons of both lifting heavy, versus a program like P90x.
    Care to help me out here guys? Any opinions on this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skalami View Post
    I just give the worked on muscle group tough riddles before my workouts... or sometimes I'll tell them we're going to the park and then go to the gym, or visa versa. They start to catch on so you have to tell the truth every so often.
    *While on the topic of muscle confusion, and how often a routine needs to be changed.*

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by nockits View Post
    Alright, before you start thinkin "whats this fool want with p90x, has he lost his mind?" hear me out.

    Quite a few of my friends are thinking of starting P90x during the summer break. They wanted to become muscular and ripped (who doesn't, right? *rolls eyes*). A couple of them knew I was lifting heavy (starting strength), and asked me why I wasn't on a program like P90x, because "they read that just lifting heavy and not doing cardio is bad, everyone needs cardio! lifting heavy isn't enough...", etc. etc. I explained that I do what I do to gain the maximum strength and size I can, I didn't really have anything to back up the cardio statement however, because I really didn't know too much about it, I didn't want to mislead them.
    They keep insisting that with P90x, they can get HYOOGE in only 3 months with this "killer diet" and hours of work with the "ab ripper" and the plyometrics this, and cardio that. From what I know of this program, it seems that it's for weight loss and some kind of endurance training. Lots of isolation, and not the simple big lifts that I've learned to love. Any real strength or size benefits with this thing? A couple of them are willing to try what I do, but they want to know the pros and cons of both lifting heavy, versus a program like P90x.
    Care to help me out here guys? Any opinions on this?
    Unless any of them are fairly big already this seems like a fairly easy call. Just make them a bet that in three months they will not be HYOOGE, not matter what they do. And to stack the cards a bit more in your favor , suggest that they follow the routines in FLEX along with P90x. After all if you want to get big, you should do what the big guys do right? Just conveniently forget to mention that the big guys are also taking a boatload of drugs and have fantastic genetics.

    Then in three months you win the bet. Sometimes people just have to learn the hard way.

    Personally I've found that talking to the average person about this is generally a waste of time. This is especially true if they go to the gym and have a favorite routine they always use. Then they don't want to hear anything from anyone who tells them they are wrong...they just want to hear stuff that agrees with their misconceptions.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 04-06-2009 at 10:09 PM.

  4. #3
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    For me, I want to look good while living a lifestyle that's sustainable. P90x isn't sustainable in my mind. Sure, you can do it for short spurts but it's not realistic to live like that 365 days a year, year after year. Fads don't work long term. P90x is a fad.

  5. #4
    Must...work...out... nockits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songsangnim View Post
    Then in three months you win the bet. Sometimes people just have to learn the hard way.
    This is exactly what I was thinking. Let's see who's in better shape when we get back together for school in sept. Then they'll realize what a waste of time it is.

    Any help with the cardio thing though? As to why it's not necessary when lifting heavy?
    My thought is that it works your CNS and your cardiovascular system more than enough just by lifting heavy, anything else I can add to this?
    I really need to put my housemates in their place. Two of them are females, and the other is a guy, and they don't understand my way of living. Just because they read a few books and watched a movie, they think everything I do (and take, ie. protein powder) "is fabricated by big companies, nothing really works, you can't trust all the ingredients in your protein powder or supps (ie. BCAA, CLA, etc.)" or my fav, "doing the workouts you do is not the optimal way of living and treating your body".

    my first thought is "**** that, believe what you want you little bitch". but these are people i gotta live with for the next couple years, so i just want to put them in their place and get them off my back.
    Last edited by nockits; 04-06-2009 at 10:39 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skalami View Post
    I just give the worked on muscle group tough riddles before my workouts... or sometimes I'll tell them we're going to the park and then go to the gym, or visa versa. They start to catch on so you have to tell the truth every so often.
    *While on the topic of muscle confusion, and how often a routine needs to be changed.*

  6. #5
    student of the game Runty's Avatar
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    Nothing wrong with doing a little cardio on the side of lifting either. Heavy lifting + minor cardio (hiit, prowler, sleddrags) > p90x.

    Although it can be argued that sled drags and prowler runs are not minor cardio. Heh.
    "Fine, if I'm not allowed to light it on fire, can my imaginary friend?"

  7. #6
    Must...work...out... nockits's Avatar
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    i don't think HIIT is minor either, not if you take it seriously.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skalami View Post
    I just give the worked on muscle group tough riddles before my workouts... or sometimes I'll tell them we're going to the park and then go to the gym, or visa versa. They start to catch on so you have to tell the truth every so often.
    *While on the topic of muscle confusion, and how often a routine needs to be changed.*

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by nockits View Post
    This is exactly what I was thinking. Let's see who's in better shape when we get back together for school in sept. Then they'll realize what a waste of time it is.
    What do you consider better shape. What do they consider better shape. It sounds like your definitions of being in shape are different.

    Any help with the cardio thing though? As to why it's not necessary when lifting heavy?
    It's not necessary if your goal is to get bigger and stronger.

    My thought is that it works your CNS and your cardiovascular system more than enough just by lifting heavy, anything else I can add to this?
    Again, saying lifting works your systems more than enough depends on your goals.

    I really need to put my housemates in their place. Two of them are females, and the other is a guy, and they don't understand my way of living. Just because they read a few books and watched a movie, they think everything I do (and take, ie. protein powder) "is fabricated by big companies, nothing really works, you can't trust all the ingredients in your protein powder or supps (ie. BCAA, CLA, etc.)" or my fav, "doing the workouts you do is not the optimal way of living and treating your body".
    You also don't seem to see their side of things, so they are probably thinking the same thing about you. It's very clear your goals are different. It's not a matter of putting them in their place, it's a matter of letting them know your goals are different.

    my first thought is "**** that, believe what you want you little bitch". but these are people i gotta live with for the next couple years, so i just want to put them in their place and get them off my back.
    You won't put them in their place if they don't understand what you are trying to do. p90x, if done as planned, would probably get them lean and "in shape". Like Song said, unless they already have good size, it won't get them big. It's not a fad in the sense that it's based on basic principles of eating healthy foods, at a lower intake than you are burning. People stay committed because the workouts change and you "confuse" your body. It is a fad in the sense that you need the CD's to be able to do it.

  9. #8
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    We just bought the P90X system. I weigh around 230-240 and have been training hard and heavy for several years. I am currently taking a break from DC training, and plan to start back in the middle of this month. I got it for the cardio and the yoga.

    My wife is a genetic freak who adds muscle pretty much just by thinking about lifting. She wanted to try the workouts because of the light resistance.

    I agree that the program is a short term system that can't possibly be mistaken for a lifestyle change. But if the yoga will help me with my flexibility, the 120 bucks or whatever it cost will be worth it.

    I would never use the program thinking it would add any LBM. Most of the gains people will see will either be newbie gains, or muscle recovery (someone who used to train just filling back up). But the cardio and the Yoga looks very enticing to me.

  10. #9
    Senior Member OGROK's Avatar
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    As far as I can tell, P90X is a terrible gimmick. It's not real lifting. If you think dumbbells with 40lb dumbbells = hard lifting that produces results you really don't know anything. It's basically an 80's style aerobic fitness video like your mom used to watch except this time you are the sucker. Again, there isn't any real lifting in that ****. It's 20 different kinds of useless bodyweight exercises and pretend bodybuilding with dumbbells that are too light for most children. All the cardio will probably lean sedentary people out somewhat, but it's still a piece of ****.
    Last edited by OGROK; 04-07-2009 at 08:22 AM.

  11. #10
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    No one has said it's hard lifting. It's muscle endurance and a way for people to lose weight. Just because it doesn't follow your approach to lifting, doesn't make it wrong. And for quite a few people 40lb db's with the amount of volume in the workout, would be difficult. The amount of pull ups they do would also be difficult. I know that P90X doesn't follow the mindset on here that you have to lift heavy to make any gains, but that doesn't make it ineffective. It's a way for people to get motivated and lose some weight. It's just another way to achieve a goal.

  12. #11
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    As to the how does cardio relate to weightlifting question, cardio is normally used by bodybuilders to cut bodyfat.

    Unfortunately it can also be so intense that it burns muscle which is not what you want and precious, precious calories. Also it might tire you out so you can't put so much into your weightliting. But it can have SOME benefits - check out marianne's how to do cardio article. it's a good article, which includes the benefits. It won't hurt to do a bit of cardio. I do a bit of shadow boxing and heavy bag training from time to time as my conditioning, I also bike it to the train most mornings but thats like 10 mins there and 10 mins back and a few other things. hope that helps - AH
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    p90x is 21st century taebo. Taebo is to 1990's as Richard Simmons is to the 1980's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimpstick View Post
    p90x is 21st century taebo. Taebo is to 1990's as Richard Simmons is to the 1980's.
    We bought the Taebo crap back in the 90's, too.

    Come to think of it - we also bought the Cybergenics stuff back in the early - mid 90's.

    Crap. I am an infomercial whore. Whew. That felt good. Admitting you have a problem is the first step to a cure.
    Last edited by rainjack; 04-07-2009 at 08:48 AM.

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainjack View Post
    But the cardio and the Yoga looks very enticing to me.
    You can do cardio and pick up some yoga DVDs for a lot less than $120 bucks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad08 View Post
    You can do cardio and pick up some yoga DVDs for a lot less than $120 bucks.
    Yeah - well that cow is already out of the barn. What is it they say about a fool and his money?

  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike G View Post
    No one has said it's hard lifting. It's muscle endurance and a way for people to lose weight. Just because it doesn't follow your approach to lifting, doesn't make it wrong. And for quite a few people 40lb db's with the amount of volume in the workout, would be difficult. The amount of pull ups they do would also be difficult. I know that P90X doesn't follow the mindset on here that you have to lift heavy to make any gains, but that doesn't make it ineffective. It's a way for people to get motivated and lose some weight. It's just another way to achieve a goal.
    As Mike stated, it's a strength endurance program designed to strip fat. P90X lives up it claim, providing those on the program follow it to the letter.

    P90X is not a program written to increase limit strength or mass.

    As Pimpstick said, the program is akin to Tae Bo. Other programs that are smilar to it are:

    1) Body For Life/Bill Phillips
    2) Ready, Set, Go?Phil Campbell
    3) Crossfit.com

    Mike right, "It's just another way to achieve a goal". That goal being cut fat.

    Kenny Croxdale

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale View Post
    As Mike stated, it's a strength endurance program designed to strip fat. P90X lives up it claim, providing those on the program follow it to the letter.

    P90X is not a program written to increase limit strength or mass.

    As Pimpstick said, the program is akin to Tae Bo. Other programs that are smilar to it are:

    1) Body For Life/Bill Phillips
    2) Ready, Set, Go?Phil Campbell
    3) Crossfit.com

    Mike right, "It's just another way to achieve a goal". That goal being cut fat.

    Kenny Croxdale
    I agree with 1 and 2, but if you eat a lot you can put on significant size doing crossfit. They do heavy weights once or twice a week.

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimpstick View Post
    I agree with 1 and 2, but if you eat a lot you can put on significant size doing crossfit. They do heavy weights once or twice a week.
    Pimpstick,

    The same can be said for the other two program that I mentioned, Body For Life and Ready, Set, Go.

    If you eat enough, you can add mass. It's basic math.

    Cross Fit is more of a genearal overall fitness program.

    The Truth About Cross Fit
    http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...about_crossfit

    "CrossFit is not a specialized fitness program, but a deliberate attempt to optimize physical competence in each of 10 recognized fitness domains," says founder Greg Glassman.

    Critics point out that being "competent" at everything makes you great at nothing. It's a valid criticism...

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  20. #19
    Pro Strongman | Moderator Tom Mutaffis's Avatar
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    Good posts Kenny - I agree on all points.

    Crossfit is a great generalist program for someone looking to be a "total athlete" but will not make you elite in any discipline.

    Some of the "fad" programs like Body for Life or P90X are effective if you follow then, just as all of the programs on here are effective if you follow them. They are great programs for someone who likes structure as everything is prescribed and laid out for you.

    If you have goals of becoming an elite strength athlete, or put on above average amounts of mass, then you need to find the program that is designed with those goals in mind. Yes, eating more than you burn will always yeild mass - but there are programs that will get you there more efficiently. This speaks to the original poster who raised the question of "which is better"?

    The answer... each program is for different goals. That does not make one inferior to the others, but if you are trying to look like a bodybuilder then training like an aerobics instructor is not going to put you on the right path.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mutaffis View Post
    Good posts Kenny - I agree on all points.

    Crossfit is a great generalist program for someone looking to be a "total athlete" but will not make you elite in any discipline.

    Some of the "fad" programs like Body for Life or P90X are effective if you follow then, just as all of the programs on here are effective if you follow them. They are great programs for someone who likes structure as everything is prescribed and laid out for you.

    If you have goals of becoming an elite strength athlete, or put on above average amounts of mass, then you need to find the program that is designed with those goals in mind. Yes, eating more than you burn will always yeild mass - but there are programs that will get you there more efficiently. This speaks to the original poster who raised the question of "which is better"?

    The answer... each program is for different goals. That does not make one inferior to the others, but if you are trying to look like a bodybuilder then training like an aerobics instructor is not going to put you on the right path.
    Hey Tom,

    I would not call Body For Life a fad program based on life span of the program. The beauty of Body For Life is the simplicity of it. It is easy to understand, for those with limited knowledge on training.

    P90X is a good program as well. Time will tell if it is a fad.

    Both program are based on a sound founation. As you noted, they provide structure for those who don't know or don't want to learn (think) what to do.

    As Alwyn Cosgrove says, "...method may change, principle remain the same." So, someone may repackage the Body For Life or P90X at some point.

    That way there will be a great new program to sell.

    Kenny Croxdale

  22. #21
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    I need to invent p80x, get shredded in 80 days!!!! Then make millions and laugh.

  23. #22
    Senior Member Jorge Sanchez's Avatar
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    I agree with Kenny and Tom. It seems like a lot of people look down on P90x because it's not going help you squat 500lbs. Well guess what? That's not what it's designed to do. Different people have different goals, and for the average person looking to get into better shape, I think P90x is actually a decent program.
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  24. #23
    Must...work...out... nockits's Avatar
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    i love the discussion here, valid points from everyone! i agree with you jorge, different people have different goals, just some people are confused and pick the wrong program to achieve that goal. (in this case my friends, as originally discussed)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skalami View Post
    I just give the worked on muscle group tough riddles before my workouts... or sometimes I'll tell them we're going to the park and then go to the gym, or visa versa. They start to catch on so you have to tell the truth every so often.
    *While on the topic of muscle confusion, and how often a routine needs to be changed.*

  25. #24
    Read the Stickies! whiteman90909's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale View Post


    P90X is a good program as well.
    I agree 100%. Not everyone has the same goals that we have, and so there's not really any problem with someone using different means to achieve those goals. A lot of dudes just wanna be tiny and semi muscular with a low bf. Fine for them. P90x will do it for them if they follow the program.

    I like the idea that people are getting into a TV product that's not an 'ab rocket', but instead a much more complete fitness package.

  26. #25
    Smeagol on Steroids Mercuryblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge Sanchez View Post
    I think P90x is actually a decent program.
    Seconded.
    Not everyone wants to deadlift, and it at least gets people to do some strength training.
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