The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
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    I don't seem to be retaining muscle through the night

    I don't seem to be making any progress lately in both strength and muscle gains and believe its because during the night where I am without food for many hours my body is breaking down my muscle for fuel. It's not like I am losing all my gains during 1 night BUT a couple nights of muscle loss puts me at nothing gained so when the next workout comes round, I am unable to add weight to the bar or do more reps. I have a naturally VERY fast metabolism and need about 5000 calories a day to make gains and I'm thinking that while its somewhat slowed when I'm asleep its still going alot faster than the normal person. So when The last meal before bed big (cassein/milk/fat combo) has digested and been used up I am then in a catabolic state losing muscle at an accelerated rate.

    The pattern I am noticing is I have a decent workout a few meals after I feel and look fuller/bigger and stronger then waking up next day whilst I am still bigger some has gone and I feel weaker, another sleep tonight will put me back to where I was before that workout it seems. So frustrating. It's like I take a step forward from a good workout and enough of the right foods afterwards then half a step back each night while I'm asleep. I have tried setting my alarm for the middle of the night and waking up to down a shake but I can't seem to wake up properly and just turn my alarm off and go back to sleep. The couple of times i did manage to wake up I then couldnt fall back to sleep and felt like **** the next day.

    Would really like to hear from anyone else with a naturally fast metabsolism do you have the same problem? Or just any advice anyone has about this would be good.
    Last edited by e55ex_b0y; 04-08-2009 at 07:58 AM.

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  3. #2
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    1) Track your calories better. How much do you weigh?

    This really shouldn't be an issue. If you down 1000 calories right before bed that should be plenty to get through the evening. I think you're just being paranoid. How long have you been training? What is your routine?

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimpstick View Post
    1) Track your calories better. How much do you weigh?

    This really shouldn't be an issue. If you down 1000 calories right before bed that should be plenty to get through the evening. I think you're just being paranoid. How long have you been training? What is your routine?
    I do track my calories I eat the same pretty much every day and it comes to 5000 on workout days and a little less on off days. I have been training for years but with little progress for a long time because I never ate enough to grow. It seems I now am getting enough at least when I'm awake anyways because I can feel and see the gains hapening, but when I wake up after a nights sleep though my clothes are not as tight muscles not as full and i feel physically weaker.

    My routine is real simple its a full body 3x a week compound lifts, My form is great, I use a good tempo none of that swinging the weights about bull****. Obviously my workouts are not at fault If i am creating enough stimulas from them to notice gains, Its just I cannot retain the gains so that next workout I can add iron to the bar. This is one of the reasons i switched from what I was doing which was an upper lower split 2 on 1 off, to a routine where the working a bodypart is more frequent (MWF) in hopes to retain the gains between the workouts, but It still doesnt seem to be happening for me.

    1000 calories would probably see most people through the night like u say with little to no muscle lost, but i am definatelly NOT most people when It comes to putting on muscle, my metabolism is insane0.

  5. #4
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    And I weigh last time I checked 198lbs from 130 or so when I started.

  6. #5
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    You didn't answer 2 of my questions. Post your diet. I highly doubt it's 5000 a day and you're not gaining weight unless you're 250 pounds. If you really are, then eat 6000. Problem solved.

  7. #6
    Former Fatass Unreal's Avatar
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    Your completely paranoid. 1 day and 1 workout doesn't mean anything. Your body probably wouldn't be catabolic if your protein intake is high for days on a very low calorie diet. Dropping water weight over night is completely normal. As for not making gains, are you still gaining weight? Is 5k calories still working? Why are you eating less on non-workout days? Are you getting enough protein?
    Nick V

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimpstick View Post
    You didn't answer 2 of my questions. Post your diet. I highly doubt it's 5000 a day and you're not gaining weight unless you're 250 pounds. If you really are, then eat 6000. Problem solved.
    My meals are 800 calories a day every 3 hours, with a 600 calorie post workout shake on workout days.... so 800 x 6 = 4800 non workout days + 600 workout days 5400 /300-350gs of protein.

    I dont think throwing more calories at the problem during the day is the answer because I am actually putting on some fat so obviously am in a calorie surplus?

  9. #8
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    What does your 800 calories meal consist of EXACTLY?

    If you're gaining weight, you're gaining muscle. When you get to a certain point you are going to gain more fat than muscle, this is natural. It's called diminishing returns.

  10. #9
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    Just a suggestion: have you tried putting your shakes right next to your bed so when you wake up, you can just glug it straight down rather than having to get up and go to the kitchen or w/e?
    Stats: Bodyweight : Current= 150 lbs, Height = 5ft11.5

    Bench Press:160 lbs/Squat:225 lbs,/Deadlift:305/Total:675lbs/

    Not strong yet, but getting there.

    Journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=116786

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimpstick View Post
    What does your 800 calories meal consist of EXACTLY?

    If you're gaining weight, you're gaining muscle. When you get to a certain point you are going to gain more fat than muscle, this is natural. It's called diminishing returns.
    Egg white/cassein/whey powder blend (2 scoops) with 400ml whole milk and 100ml double cream 4x a day.

    Then I have 2 meals consisting of beef and fish/olive oil and some green veg.

    Post workout shake is Fruit juice + 2 scoop malto + 2 scoop whey.

    I am gaining weight but none of my lifts are going up by reps or added weight (ive tried microloading tiny plates) so obviously its not good weight.

    I'm not sure what you mean by diminishing returns? I am getting no returns right now for my efforts. :|

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ_H View Post
    Just a suggestion: have you tried putting your shakes right next to your bed so when you wake up, you can just glug it straight down rather than having to get up and go to the kitchen or w/e?
    Yep, I tried this. Had a shake pre made with a bunch of ice cubes in to keep it cool.

  13. #12
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    Diminishing returns means that you have to put in more effort the more advanced your training becomes. Think about it in terms of training to run a mile:

    to go from an 8 min. mile to a 7 min. is easy. 7 to 6 is harder. 6 to 5 is really hard. 5 to 4 most will never accomplish. 4 to 3 is impossible. Same with weightlifting. It's easy to get to a lean 200 pounds for most people provided your training and diet are in good order. To go beyond that requires HEAVY eating and a lot of time (and drugs for many). If you're gaining weight, you're making progress. You may have to bulk to 230 pounds, then cut back to 210 to see any muscle gain. This is dependent on genetics / training / diet. Sounds like you know how to eat, post your routine so we can see if you're training right.

  14. #13
    Chubbilicious. VikingWarlord's Avatar
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    It's paranoia. That's it.

    The law of diminishing returns states, very basically, the same thing won't work the same way forever. You'll only make incremental progress. When was the last time you took time off? When's the last time you completely switched routines?
    If one person can do something, anyone can learn to do it.
    Do what you've always done and get what you've always gotten.
    There is no failure, only feedback.

    "Journey of 1000 miles starts with a single step".--Lao Tzu

    Pro-Choice...ON EVERYTHING.

  15. #14
    Read the Stickies! whiteman90909's Avatar
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    Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you in one of the most anabolic states when you're sleeping? I can't even imagine how you would become catabolic at night unless you go to bed drunk or aren't eating.

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimpstick View Post
    Diminishing returns means that you have to put in more effort the more advanced your training becomes. Think about it in terms of training to run a mile:

    to go from an 8 min. mile to a 7 min. is easy. 7 to 6 is harder. 6 to 5 is really hard. 5 to 4 most will never accomplish. 4 to 3 is impossible. Same with weightlifting. It's easy to get to a lean 200 pounds for most people provided your training and diet are in good order. To go beyond that requires HEAVY eating and a lot of time (and drugs for many). If you're gaining weight, you're making progress. You may have to bulk to 230 pounds, then cut back to 210 to see any muscle gain. This is dependent on genetics / training / diet. Sounds like you know how to eat, post your routine so we can see if you're training right.
    Alright well that makes sense. The thing is I'm not even a lean 198lbs so I dont think my genetics are maxed out and I need to go the drugs route just yet. I have done the **** load of food before and been 230lbs but it was a very fat 43 inch waist 230lbs. I thought It would = more growth and it did but that growth came in the form of ugly nasty fat. I dont mind putting some fat on if some muscles going to come with it, but that just doesnt seem to be happening for me right now.

    My workout is a full body workout 3x a week MWF

    Chin ups
    DB incline
    DB rows
    Military Press
    Yates Row
    Skull cruhers
    Squats

    3 sets @ 4-8 reps taking each set to the point where If i was to do another rep I would fail. Have experimented with some rest pause stuff also.

  17. #16
    Chubbilicious. VikingWarlord's Avatar
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    Wait. How much actual muscle have you put on?

    This thing is going to turn out to be a trainwreck.
    If one person can do something, anyone can learn to do it.
    Do what you've always done and get what you've always gotten.
    There is no failure, only feedback.

    "Journey of 1000 miles starts with a single step".--Lao Tzu

    Pro-Choice...ON EVERYTHING.

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by VikingWarlord View Post
    It's paranoia. That's it.

    The law of diminishing returns states, very basically, the same thing won't work the same way forever. You'll only make incremental progress. When was the last time you took time off? When's the last time you completely switched routines?
    I took time off not that long ago because I was completely burnt out putting so much time into all this and getting nothing good in return So don't think thats an issue. I have switched from routines alot, thinking that it must be my routine thats bad and the next one will give me progress... but I just stall with progression within a week or 2 on each of them.

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by VikingWarlord View Post
    Wait. How much actual muscle have you put on?

    This thing is going to turn out to be a trainwreck.
    Well When I started my arms measured about 11 inches they are now 15.5, chest/back was about 35 inches is now 43, shoulders I dont have measurements but are quite a bit wider (probably my best bodypart I've made gains on), legs were about 19-20 inches now 23. My overall weight gain is 130-200 - I have no idea what percentage of that is muscle.

  20. #19
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    Based on your measurements, unless you are tall you are a little fat right now. I dunno man, you're making this really complicated when it shouldn't be. My suggestion is to continue doing what you're doing, come back in 6 months if you haven't progressed at all. As long as you're gaining weight, you're gaining muscle. If you're losing weight at a slow pace and eating well, you are losing fat with minimal muscle loss. It should be as easy as that.

    You're routine is good enough that you should be progressing.

  21. #20
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    yup, I am a little bit chubby right now waist is 36-37 and my height is 5'10.

    Not sure I agree with the if your gaining weight your gaining muscle though, if my lifts are not going up then my body has no reason to grow and I'm only putting on fat? ;(

    I found the following that supports muscle can be lost during the night, you disagree with these sources?

  22. #21

  23. #22
    Read the Stickies! whiteman90909's Avatar
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    Not one of those links go to an article.
    Last edited by whiteman90909; 04-08-2009 at 11:37 AM.

  24. #23
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    the last link you posted the guy recommends flexing and posing in the mirror to get bigger... dude, the information on this site is 1000x better than the crap you just posted. listen to the people here and you will get big. how long have you been training anyways??

    #5 - Flex and Pose Between Sets
    This really helps bring out shape and size. people will look at you funny but that is why they will stay small and you are getting big. You will notice subtle changes when you start doing this.

    LOL this is the dumbest thing i've ever heard.
    Last edited by Pimpstick; 04-08-2009 at 11:42 AM.

  25. #24
    Former Fatass Unreal's Avatar
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    It can be if you put your body in a catabolic state by doing tons of cardio/exercise with little protein, but your not doing that. How is your sleep? How is your rest? I think you need to mix up rep ranges. Going 1 rep short of failure 3x a week is not good. Try a west side approach of a DE/ME/Etc days.
    Nick V

  26. #25
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    Sorry fixed the links, my bad lol

    And I've been training for a few years now, much of which was spent spinning my wheels.

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