The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member
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    Best Bodybuilding Routine

    So, I've finished SS and have been doing BGB for the past four months, and now I want a specifically BB-oriented routine. I know that everyone's different, and what works for some people won't work for me, but I just want to know what the best BB routine has been for some of you guys. Thanks in advance!

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  3. #2
    Squat Heavy, Squat Often Cards's Avatar
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    This tends to be more of a powerlifting forum than a bodybuilding one. Most people here probably follow some type of program geared towards strenght. At one point there were a few bodybuilders on this site but they vanished. One guy named Daone was a bodybuilder and he posted his routine as:

    Quote Originally Posted by Daone View Post
    This is my split but I am alone in this LARGE crowd of powerlifters!!

    Mondays
    QUADS AND SHOULDERS

    Quads
    Squats
    Lunges
    Leg Press
    Hack Squats

    Shoulders
    Seated Mil press
    Side lateral raises
    Bent Over lateral raises

    Tuesdays
    BACK
    Weighted Pull-ups
    Rack Pulls
    Bent Over Rows
    Shrugs

    Wednesday
    OFF

    Thursday
    CHEST AND TRICEPS

    Chest
    Incline Bench
    Flat Bench
    Weighted dips

    Triceps
    Close grip bench
    Two arm DB overhead Ext.

    Friday
    HAMS BICEPS & CALVES

    Hams
    GHR
    SLDL
    Leg Curls

    Biceps
    Standing BB curls
    Incline DB curls
    Hammer curls

    Calves
    Standing calf raises
    Sitting calf raises
    Leg press calf raises
    hope this helps.
    H: 5'7" W:185
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  4. #3
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    Thanks, man! I appreciate it. And I've noted the prevalence of PLer's over BBer's, haha.

  5. #4
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    Doggcrapp hands down. Nothing else even comes close in my experience.

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainjack View Post
    Doggcrapp hands down. Nothing else even comes close in my experience.
    No way! Not for someone who just finished doing SS 4 months ago. OP check out the two articles on here by Ron Harris. DC is a routine for individuals who have been training seriously for many years before they embark on that type of training.

  7. #6
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainjack View Post
    Doggcrapp hands down. Nothing else even comes close in my experience.
    But, I do agree with you it is a great routine and purely for the answer of which routine is the best, it is right up there. I just hope the OP does not want to know this simply to try what the board feels is the best routine, hence my first reply.

  8. #7
    Matt Wright
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    How long were you on SS? How much results did you get? A friend of mine just started, and I'm wondering how much results he should expect to get.
    Injured.

  9. #8
    A gallon a day, everyday! ThomasG's Avatar
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    I Like BGB for bodybuilding :shrug:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    you're an intelligent guy... but you're also half #$%&ing crazy... and that my friend is the formula for a great powerlifter.
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  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by joey54 View Post
    No way! Not for someone who just finished doing SS 4 months ago. OP check out the two articles on here by Ron Harris. DC is a routine for individuals who have been training seriously for many years before they embark on that type of training.
    I would have to disagree. If you go with the M-W-F split, training each body part once a week, there is nothing too advanced for a younger guy - IF he follows the guidelines to a T, and eats the proper volumes of food.

    Dante was 137 pound weakling when he started.

    If my son wanted to be a bodybuilder, or "power builder" as Dante calls it - I would have no qualms putting him on DC.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainjack View Post
    I would have to disagree. If you go with the M-W-F split, training each body part once a week, there is nothing too advanced for a younger guy - IF he follows the guidelines to a T, and eats the proper volumes of food.

    Dante was 137 pound weakling when he started.

    If my son wanted to be a bodybuilder, or "power builder" as Dante calls it - I would have no qualms putting him on DC.
    That's funny b/c DC himself (you know, the guy who invented the program and has coached numerous guys through his program) would vehemently disagree with you. But you young guys know it all. Screw the guy who invented the system.

    ...

    OP, what do you mean you "finished" SS? It's not designed to run for X number of weeks. If you treated it as such, you obviously didn't follow the program correctly or you missed the big picture.

  12. #11
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    what is the different in Bodybuilding and strength training? I've been wondering for a while. It seems a workout like BGB hits each muscle twice a week but not as forcefully, whereas the bodybuilding routine specializes more? what is the difference? how will your body change?

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFM8241988 View Post
    what is the different in Bodybuilding and strength training? I've been wondering for a while. It seems a workout like BGB hits each muscle twice a week but not as forcefully, whereas the bodybuilding routine specializes more? what is the difference? how will your body change?
    I am sure you will end up getting a better reponse but here is how I understand it:

    The goal in Bodybuilding is to get ripped and bigger. Basically it is all about looking good.

    The goal in Strength Training is to become a beast. Of course looking good is still a goal, but thes guys aren't too worried about body fat %. Their main goal is to become stronger.

    Either route you take, it is still much better than doing nothing like most guys.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainjack View Post
    I would have to disagree. If you go with the M-W-F split, training each body part once a week, there is nothing too advanced for a younger guy - IF he follows the guidelines to a T, and eats the proper volumes of food.

    Dante was 137 pound weakling when he started.

    If my son wanted to be a bodybuilder, or "power builder" as Dante calls it - I would have no qualms putting him on DC.
    You have a poor concept of DC training. First with the 2 way DC split the entire body is trained twice about every 8 days. You never train a bodypart once per week on DC unless one is doing Dante's pre-contest or maintaining program. Few get to that program, and no one here would be doing that. Second, Dante was 137 lbs when he started lifting. He did not start DC training at 137 lbs. Finally, DC training would be a terrible way to start a young bodybuilder off, Dante says so himself in numerous writings. I must suggest you do more research about DC training before giving any sort of advice about it. I hesitate to give advice about it and I follow the training protocols.

    Brad 08 made excellent points to the OP which should be addressed.

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad08 View Post
    That's funny b/c DC himself (you know, the guy who invented the program and has coached numerous guys through his program) would vehemently disagree with you. But you young guys know it all. Screw the guy who invented the system.

    ...

    OP, what do you mean you "finished" SS? It's not designed to run for X number of weeks. If you treated it as such, you obviously didn't follow the program correctly or you missed the big picture.
    You might want to check my age before calling me a "young guy". I m 44 and have been in this game long enough to have seen Arnold compete live.

    The reason Dante won't train kids - or new trainees - is because they always want to tweak the program, or try to out think it. It has nothing to do with the training style. it has everything to do with the attitude of the trainee.

    And I stand by my statement. If my 17 year-old son wanted to get into BBing - I would start him off on the m-w-f split of DC.

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by joey54 View Post
    You have a poor concept of DC training. First with the 2 way DC split the entire body is trained twice about every 8 days. You never train a bodypart once per week on DC unless one is doing Dante's pre-contest or maintaining program. Few get to that program, and no one here would be doing that. Second, Dante was 137 lbs when he started lifting. He did not start DC training at 137 lbs. Finally, DC training would be a terrible way to start a young bodybuilder off, Dante says so himself in numerous writings. I must suggest you do more research about DC training before giving any sort of advice about it. I hesitate to give advice about it and I follow the training protocols.

    Brad 08 made excellent points to the OP which should be addressed.
    First off - I gave no advice. I answered a question, then I replied to your post addressed at me.

    You really want to stand by that statement? Really? Do you want me to find the three way split that Dante himself laid out? The one for weak body parts? The one I use, and respond very well to?

    I suppose you think everything should be done in the 15RP range as well. Never mind Dante telling older lifters to up the range.

    Dude - I don't know who you think I am, but you need to check the attitude. If you have a problem with me, or my advice (if I was to give any) - take it to PM.

    I suggest you actually learn what is going on and read more of what Dante says before wagging your finger at me.

  17. #16
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainjack View Post
    First off - I gave no advice. I answered a question, then I replied to your post addressed at me.

    You really want to stand by that statement? Really? Do you want me to find the three way split that Dante himself laid out? The one for weak body parts? The one I use, and respond very well to?

    I suppose you think everything should be done in the 15RP range as well. Never mind Dante telling older lifters to up the range.

    Dude - I don't know who you think I am, but you need to check the attitude. If you have a problem with me, or my advice (if I was to give any) - take it to PM.

    I suggest you actually learn what is going on and read more of what Dante says before wagging your finger at me.

    You know you train 4 times per week on the three way split right?

    If you are doing the 3 way split I am guessing you squat at least 650 lbs and deadlift 700 lbs?

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by joey54 View Post
    But, I do agree with you it is a great routine and purely for the answer of which routine is the best, it is right up there. I just hope the OP does not want to know this simply to try what the board feels is the best routine, hence my first reply.
    And Rainjack, you did see this post too right?

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by joey54 View Post
    You know you train 4 times per week on the three way split right?

    If you are doing the 3 way split I am guessing you squat at least 650 lbs and deadlift 700 lbs?
    You must think I am a total freaking idiot. If you had actually read my first reply to you you would have seen me qualify what I said.

    Look - I am not trying to start a fight. I have shown you no disrespect, and you seem bent on showing me as much disrespect as you possibly can. Is this what passes for proper moderator behavior on this board?

    You didn't read all of the article, did you? But at least you did go do a search for it. I will give you some credit for that.

    Do you want me to post the link here, or should I PM it to you?

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by joey54 View Post
    And Rainjack, you did see this post too right?
    Yes - I did. That is why I am bit confused at the hostility.

    I would have to disagree. If you go with the M-W-F split, training each body part once a week, there is nothing too advanced for a younger guy - IF he follows the guidelines to a T, and eats the proper volumes of food.
    You did read the part in bold too, right?

  21. #20
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainjack View Post
    You must think I am a total freaking idiot. If you had actually read my first reply to you you would have seen me qualify what I said.

    Look - I am not trying to start a fight. I have shown you no disrespect, and you seem bent on showing me as much disrespect as you possibly can. Is this what passes for proper moderator behavior on this board?

    You didn't read all of the article, did you? But at least you did go do a search for it. I will give you some credit for that.

    Do you want me to post the link here, or should I PM it to you?
    I read the article quite some time ago, so I don't have it memorized. The 3 way split definitely doesn't apply to me, so I can't say I am significantly well versed in it either. I still find it odd that would say a younger lifter could follow a 3 day a week, one bodypart DC split. That is not DC no matter how you cut it. It is a bastardized program following DC principles, and I don't know how you get around that. I am questioning you on that.

    I am not trying to start a fight either and I don't feel I have shown you disrespect either. Obviously you would have to be a strong Mofo to be on the 3 way DC split, those are numbers I would think would qualify one for being on the 3 way split. And if you are, then I am sure I would have much to learn from you. That is why I ask.

    As for moderating, my intitial response was made to steer a newb away from trying DC training, but after re-reading your first post, I realized that was not your intention. They OP may not though, and that is why I added a second comment.

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by joey54 View Post
    I read the article quite some time ago, so I don't have it memorized. The 3 way split definitely doesn't apply to me, so I can't say I am significantly well versed in it either. I still find it odd that would say a younger lifter could follow a 3 day a week, one bodypart DC split. That is not DC no matter how you cut it. It is a bastardized program following DC principles, and I don't know how you get around that. I am questioning you on that.

    I am not trying to start a fight either and I don't feel I have shown you disrespect either. Obviously you would have to be a strong Mofo to be on the 3 way DC split, those are numbers I would think would qualify one for being on the 3 way split. And if you are, then I am sure I would have much to learn from you. That is why I ask.

    As for moderating, my intitial response was made to steer a newb away from trying DC training, but after re-reading your first post, I realized that was not your intention. They OP may not though, and that is why I added a second comment.
    I went back and re-read the article. I misspoke. I called it an MWF routine, as that's just what I have always called it. It should be more accurate to call it an ABC split versus the AB split that is the traditional DC scheme.

    I do train 4 days a week, and cardio on days off.

    The only bastardization I have made to my training is that I cannot do barbell squats. I can only hack squat and leg press.

    I think - like I said - that a young guy would do fine on this program IF - and please notice the IF because it is critical - he follows it to the T, and eats enough per the program. I don't like people who think they need to tweak every program they come across, and kids seem to be the world's worst at both that, and over analyzing stuff.

    I mean really - what reason other than "Dante says so" is there for not using the best possible training method at the earliest and safest possible time?

    I would never give advice about training to a kid without first asking the standard battery of questions.

    Sorry we got off on the wrong foot. I apologize for any confusion I may have caused by describing the split wrong.

    And for what it's worth, the article I read said that the 3 way split is for advanced lifters AND folks who need a shorter training period. I like to think I am stronger than average, but I don't really count pounds when I lift. I use the method Jason Wojo describes on his DC dvd - which btw should be required watching for anyone in the DC camp.

  23. #22
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainjack View Post
    I went back and re-read the article. I misspoke. I called it an MWF routine, as that's just what I have always called it. It should be more accurate to call it an ABC split versus the AB split that is the traditional DC scheme.

    I do train 4 days a week, and cardio on days off.

    The only bastardization I have made to my training is that I cannot do barbell squats. I can only hack squat and leg press.

    I think - like I said - that a young guy would do fine on this program IF - and please notice the IF because it is critical - he follows it to the T, and eats enough per the program. I don't like people who think they need to tweak every program they come across, and kids seem to be the world's worst at both that, and over analyzing stuff.

    I mean really - what reason other than "Dante says so" is there for not using the best possible training method at the earliest and safest possible time?

    I would never give advice about training to a kid without first asking the standard battery of questions.

    Sorry we got off on the wrong foot. I apologize for any confusion I may have caused by describing the split wrong.

    And for what it's worth, the article I read said that the 3 way split is for advanced lifters AND folks who need a shorter training period. I like to think I am stronger than average, but I don't really count pounds when I lift. I use the method Jason Wojo describes on his DC dvd - which btw should be required watching for anyone in the DC camp.

    Most of the time that reason is good enough for me. Again, I just think, and everyone at IM would say, a younger lifter would be better served on another program and then should progress to DC once they have a good base. I know on the DC DVD at least 2 years(I believe it is 2-3, I am going off memory) of serious training before starting DC. Good call on the video. I own that one and Project Superheavyweight. That one is an example of the 3 way split with a few twists in it. Great video and it has an excellent nutrition section in it. If you have the time start up a DC journal, as right now CPHafner, Jay Dub, and myself are the only ones who have them on this site.

  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by joey54 View Post
    Most of the time that reason is good enough for me. Again, I just think, and everyone at IM would say, a younger lifter would be better served on another program and then should progress to DC once they have a good base. I know on the DC DVD at least 2 years(I believe it is 2-3, I am going off memory) of serious training before starting DC. Good call on the video. I own that one and Project Superheavyweight. That one is an example of the 3 way split with a few twists in it. Great video and it has an excellent nutrition section in it. If you have the time start up a DC journal, as right now CPHafner, Jay Dub, and myself are the only ones who have them on this site.
    I agree with Dante 99% of the time. And I agree with him on this issue to the point that most kids don't have the focus and determination to just do the program. But timetables are so relative.


    I figure once you have enough time under your belt to do all of the exercises with good form and have some experience with pushing moderately heavy weights ( so that you aren't scared of them) - you have all you need to attempt DC.

    Then again I know guys that have been "serious" training for 6 years that would not make it 2 weeks in DC.

    To me DC is more about one's desire to make the logbook your bitch every in single exercise, for every single workout than it is about how long you've been in the game.

  25. #24
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    It's funny that, as a man with 44 years of experience under his belt, you still think you know more about how to use DC's system than he does, when he literally invented it and has coached, and observed, literally hundreds if not thousands of people using his system.

    Go to his board. You'll see a large number of threads with DC himself telling tons of guys that 5x5 is calling their name. But you know better, I guess.

    Knowing your body is absolutely crucial to DC training. Beginners don't. Most intermediates don't. YOu have to know when to blast and when to back off and cruise. You have to know how many reps you're capable of, and be able to generate intensity to make the system work. Beginners barely have muscular coordination, much less the NEURAL ability to put it all together and demonstrate their strength with maximum force and intensity on each exercise, several times a week.

    But, whatever. You clearly don't understand DC training or you wouldn't say what you do.

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad08 View Post
    It's funny that, as a man with 44 years of experience under his belt, you still think you know more about how to use DC's system than he does, when he literally invented it and has coached, and observed, literally hundreds if not thousands of people using his system.
    It's funny that you can't read my posts beyond a single minor point of disagreement I have with what Dante says which has zero to do with the training method itself. But hey - if it makes you feel important to spout off about crap of which you you evidently have no clue - then knock yourself out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad08 View Post
    Go to his board. You'll see a large number of threads with DC himself telling tons of guys that 5x5 is calling their name. But you know better, I guess.
    And that has what to do with a damn thing we are talking about? SHow me where I said anything about 5X5 - either for or against. But I do go to his board - well not his board because he doesn't OWN a board. I go to Skips board, where Dante holds court.

    But you knew that already, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad08 View Post
    Knowing your body is absolutely crucial to DC training. Beginners don't. Most intermediates don't. YOu have to know when to blast and when to back off and cruise. You have to know how many reps you're capable of, and be able to generate intensity to make the system work. Beginners barely have muscular coordination, much less the NEURAL ability to put it all together and demonstrate their strength with maximum force and intensity on each exercise, several times a week.
    I agree with this. I just have a problem assigning an arbitrary training age to those requirements.


    Quote Originally Posted by Brad08 View Post
    But, whatever. You clearly don't understand DC training or you wouldn't say what you do.
    Please tell me what I said that makes you think I don't understand DC.

    I think you have a problem with me from other threads, and this is your chance to act like a tough guy. Next time bring more than you did - it just makes you look like a dumbass.

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