The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
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    Squat & Deadlifts for biceps, etc.

    Hi All,

    I'm new to the forums. I've been lifting for about 8 months after a 3 year hiatus, and before that I'd lifted in high school for about 2-3 years.

    I'm learning so much from these forums that I wanted to express my gratitude. What a great resource for a guy crossing the intermediate threshhold. I finally started noticing a plateau working upper body two days a week, and lower body two days a week, so I'm switching to the intermediate guide in another thread.

    Dead lifts and squats have never been a huge part of my routine, even up until now. It seems so counter-intuitive that squats and deadlifts would help with curls, etc., but now I FINALLY know why I have made little to no gains on my bicep curl weight for the past 5-6 months.

    So last night I did my first deadlifts. I bench probably 265-275 max, but I could only do 3x8 deadlifts with 155 lbs! I was thoroughly embarassed by how much I'd neglected to do these. My grip is pitiful, and now I finally know why I haven't had as many gains as I'd like in every other aspect of lifting.

    Thank you so much again for this vital information! Now, my question is, is there anything else I can supplement to help my grip, or will the dead lifts and chin ups take care of it? Also, I'm trying to walk a tightrope between cutting and gaining mass, and I'm wondering how to manage both? I don't have a high metabolism, and I've been overweight most of my life, so I'm not sure how many calories will be too many.

    Thanks again for reading, and any help on the above questions!

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  3. #2
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    Damn dude, that is a strong muscle imbalance. Get your DL up to a solid 365-400 and I promise your curls and bench will go up to!

    You can't cut and bulk at the same time.
    Last edited by Pimpstick; 04-30-2009 at 09:21 AM.

  4. #3
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    ^ wrong

    you absolutely can cut fat while gaining muscle. It is extremely difficult though and will require you training like a beast (with squats and deadlifts ) while also nailing your diet consistently 7 days a week. Its called recomposition.

  5. #4
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    Read this:

    http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...25&postcount=9

    How to squat for HUGE arms.
    Last edited by J.C.; 04-30-2009 at 10:27 AM.

  6. #5
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    Hey Drummer,

    That's the article that got me motivated to start doing deadlifts and squats as part of my regular routine, and made me realize why I wasn't making progress.

    Thanks for the repost though, I'm bookmarking it.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by d0rkyd00d View Post
    Hey Drummer,

    That's the article that got me motivated to start doing deadlifts and squats as part of my regular routine, and made me realize why I wasn't making progress.

    Thanks for the repost though, I'm bookmarking it.
    Hey, sweet! Well its been bumped anyway. I have that article saved on my computer and its one of the first I re-read when I got back into lifting a year ago. Its very clearly laid out and sets some ambitious but acheivable goals to work towards - like the heavy 20-rep squats.

  8. #7
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    Hey Drummer,

    Yep, it was your post in another thread that caught my attention, so I thank you personally for bringing it to light!

    It was so freakin' obvious when I had to do 3x8 last night with 155 lbs that I've been going about it all wrong. I think somebody else brought up that quote, that after reaching a certain weight with dead lifts, they said, "Now I can finally start curling!"

    Another embarassing admittance: I can only do 3x10 squats with 185 lbs...I weigh 220 currently. Yikes.

    I can't wait until I'm up to speed on both lifts. My forearms have been puny, my back isn't strong AT ALL, and every part of my body has undoubtedly suffered due to this lack of information.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by samadhi_smiles View Post
    ^ wrong

    you absolutely can cut fat while gaining muscle. It is extremely difficult though and will require you training like a beast (with squats and deadlifts ) while also nailing your diet consistently 7 days a week. Its called recomposition.
    Recomp is not the same thing at all as bulking and cutting at the same time, which is what the OP was suggesting.

    Also the scenario you laid out for recomp sounds like a living hell. I'd rather get strong and fat then cut than go through what you posted

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by samadhi_smiles View Post
    ^ wrong

    you absolutely can cut fat while gaining muscle. It is extremely difficult though and will require you training like a beast (with squats and deadlifts ) while also nailing your diet consistently 7 days a week. Its called recomposition.
    As a newbie, perhaps.

    If you want to get big and strong, you need to eat. And with that will come a bit of fat--but who really cares?

  11. #10
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    the only reason people get fat when they bulk is because they overfeed. More careful bulking would result in less fat accumulation.

  12. #11
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    Hey Guys,

    Just an update. Did my deadlifts a couple of days ago as I mentioned, 155lb 3x, which I know is weaksauce. I am pleasantly encouraged by the fact that today, I can feel my tendons in my forearms and fingers just got torn up. I know this will lead to my grip getting stronger, forearm growth, etc.! Very exciting, I haven't done an exercise in MONTHS that gave me this much muscle fatigue in my forearms and hands.

    Thanks again. One day in the future I'll be posting before and after pics.

  13. #12
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    sweet dude! keep up the good work! you should write keep a journal in the online journal section of the forums so we can keep track, comment and critique!
    Check out my Journal!

    Quote Originally Posted by Skalami View Post
    I just give the worked on muscle group tough riddles before my workouts... or sometimes I'll tell them we're going to the park and then go to the gym, or visa versa. They start to catch on so you have to tell the truth every so often.
    *While on the topic of muscle confusion, and how often a routine needs to be changed.*

  14. #13
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    squatting and deadlifting will not get you a huge curl i dont care what anybody says. i used to do only bench and curls and igot to a 130 curl at 160. i then stopped curling as much and did squats and deadlifts and my curl went down to around 100 even though my other lifts had been steadily increasing. i have recently started curling again and di 120x4 last workout.

  15. #14
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    Well surely its a bit of both?

    McRobert even says "as long as not they're not entirely neglected." But adding overall mass will make you stronger, and being bigger and stronger will make it easier to get bigger and stronger curls. And the easiest way to add overall mass and get significantly stronger is to do squats and deadlifts (+rows and presses). You will still have to work hard on your curls but the process will be made significantly easier by increasing total mass and strength.

  16. #15
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    Let's be honest here. Squats building big arms is wishful thinking...
    Last edited by OGROK; 05-01-2009 at 07:22 PM.

  17. #16
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    Well for sure. It's being slightly flippant to just say "want big arms...SQUAT!"

    The real issue is that if you want big arms, you need everything to be bigger.

    I don't think anybody is saying you don't have to do arm work if you want big arms. Although BigTallOx likes to point out that his biceps grew more in the last year or so of heavy squatting and deadlifting than in any of the time he'd just worked bis and tris. So there is some truth to it.

    If you want big arms, of course you are going to have to do some direct arm work. Haven't we been through this a million times? The point here - and the point of the article I posted - is just that beginners (and even some intermediates) need to get their priorities right. Adding mass and getting strong through squats and deads. And then icing the cake with arm work.

  18. #17
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    Yeah as dummer said with BigTallOx the same is true with me. All throughout high school and into college i didnt know what i was doing in the gym. Did all upper body and did strictly arms twice a week. Then when i found this site only about 4 months ago i learned how to lift for real and added squats and deadlifts along with other compounds. The only direct arm work i do is at the end of the week i do 2 sets of heavy dumbbell curls and 2 sets of heavy dumbbell overhead extensions (along with pull ups and dips throughout the week). In those 4 month my arms have blown up and grew more than in about 4 years of doing arms twice a week.

  19. #18
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    if you don't have a high testosterone level then it will be quite difficult to build big arms. Squatting increases your blood serum testosterone levels which as a result will make it easier to pack on mass all over your body with the least amount of fat gain.

  20. #19
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    thats a myth. i actually have ehard that doing heavy squatting before going for a tesosterone blood test will produce a reduced level of tesosterone in your lab results.(i researched this because i might go onto hrts.

  21. #20
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    testosterone is a myth? Oh buddy how you are wrong

    The counter-example you have given is inane. Just because an activity temporarily decreases testosterone does not mean it decreases day to day blood levels of testosterone. In fact, it appears like the deficit in testosterone is required in order for the endocrine system to upregulate and thereby supercompensate and start producing more testosterone (think about it on analogy to your muscle-building - it takes a nice stimulus during your workout that will temporarily make you weaker in order to eventually make you stronger).

    Doing back squats and deadlifts WILL increase your testosterone (in my experience and from what I know reading up on endocrinology the last few years). There's no mistaking increased sex drive, increased confidence, bigger muscles. That means elevated testosterone levels. No way around that.
    Last edited by samadhi_smiles; 05-02-2009 at 03:33 PM.

  22. #21
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    tesosterone is not a myth but squatting wont increase your tesosterone. do you beleive parallel squats are best for your knees lol
    there are people who agree with you and people who agree with me. in my experience ive actually been named test deficient by doctors and i started squatting last year. my gains also slowed down once i started squatting also.
    Last edited by rctriplefresh5; 05-02-2009 at 03:41 PM.

  23. #22
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    well not gonna argue it cause I'm too lazy to look up articles to make it a legit conversation.

    But you do what you want man. You want to be a curl jockey go for it! Nobody is stopping you.

  24. #23
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    i squat and deadlift

  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by rctriplefresh5 View Post
    tesosterone is not a myth but squatting wont increase your tesosterone. .

    This is incorrect. I've already posted links to studies which show the opposite.

  26. #25
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    its kind of a silly argument. I wonder if the dude that is arguing against it even lifts. If you squat and deadlift you will see your testosterone increase through a number of effects it has on behavior, feeling, and musculature.

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