Well, I didn't say that but this is the story that happened today. It's kind of long but here I go...
I train at a local community center nearby my house, and it has enough equipments and plates for me to do most stuff that I need. I've been seeing this guy come in for a year now. He looks like he is about 50~60 years old and he claims that he used to a bodybuilder when he was younger. He is pretty big, so at first I took this as a great opportunity to get some feedback on my training and other stuff. I'm not exactly that dumb, so I found out pretty much everything he says is complete bull**** and makes no sense whatsoever. After a while, I also found out that what he does for a living is to scam high school kids that come to the gym by making them pay 20 dollars per session, and make them go through a bunch of bull**** circuit training using machines only (zero posterior chain work), assisted bicep curls, dumbbell rows, pull ups and a bunch of exercises that I have honestly never seen before. All exercises done to failure, tons of negatives and forced reps. Whenever he sees me benching/squatting/deadlifting, he talks to his clients powerlifting and 1 rep maxes are pointless and just a way show off.
Now this kind of pisses me off seeing a bunch of clueless high school kids are throwing their hard earned money down the toilet, and this scumbag is clearly taking advantage of that but most of them are douche bags anyway so I just continue with my training with silence. Since we (the bodybuilder guy and I) have been seeing each other for a while, he knows that my training revolves around bench, squat, and deadlift. Because he knows that his scam is not going to work on me, he never talks to me (he only talks to his clients and to people he wants to scam). But today, as I'm finishing my last set of speed bench, he tries to spark a conversation and this is when it gets really funny.
BBer: So, you follow Louie Simmons' training?
Me: I wouldn't say I follow his method since I don't train at his gym, but I do read his articles and try to utilize some of his methods.
(*he then starts laughing out loud and shakes his head as if I'm clueless*)
Me: What's so funny
BBer: Louie Simmons, everybody thinks he is the guru of powerlifting but his knowledge is very limited. He doesn't really know what he is talking about, and his method is not a good way to increase your strength level. Especially the chains and bands that he talks about... they are no good.
(*then he blows a raspberry and puts his thumb down*)
At this point I'm thinking wtf is this guy talking about. Then he says, "forget Louie Simmons. I'm not saying he is bad, but you need to subscribe to Milo magazine instead of reading Simmons' articles. That magazine has everything you'll ever need." Before he leaves, he takes out a sheet of paper and writes down "Dr. Ken Leistner" and tells me to read some of his stuff. According to him, he is the guru of strength training and he almost makes Louie Simmons look as if he is some sort of poser.
It's pretty long, hope I didn't bore you to death. I just don't understand the mentality of those who feel the need to give bs advice to mess with other people's head, and put them down whenever they see them doing something right.
Last edited by MPB; 05-08-2009 at 06:14 PM.
Unfortunately I run into that stuff on a daily basis.
It doesn't bother Lou much at all though. He just shrugs it off and moves on, keeps doing what he has been for the last 40+ years
You'll always find people who think they know better than someone else, no matter what the life experiences and level of that person may be. Just life I guess
Looks like things are working out fine for you doing what you are doing. Some people just need to learn to be quiet.
It's hard to understand where these people get the confidence to talk crap about him, when his method has been proven and has helped hundreds if not thousands of lifters and athletes.
just explain to him that you think he is a piece of sh$t scumbag and then steal his crappy sweatband that he wears around his mushy head and give it a flush down the toilet. then just explain to him that if he has any other crappy advice for you, or takes advantage of one more high skool student, then you will put a boot in his azz and send him packing. hahhaha idk, or you could recruit some of those high skool lifters, this way you will have more spotters and training partners.
Louie Simmons doesn't know nothin'
That's why he has arguably the most successful powerlifting gym / programming in the world.
Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.
You will never win with people like this.
that being said, I enjoy reading Milo articles here and there and Ken Leistner seems to know his stuff, though I wouldn't say its the end all be all of strength training.
Stats: 11/15/07-First-meet--2nd Meet----3rd meet
Max Bench: 255---220-----------280------300
Max Squat: 405----395----------440------460
CHINUPS - Bodyweight + 135, x1, dead hang. Still working on the one arm chinup.
The funny thing is he gave the name Dr. Ken. Although it doesn't sound like he is doing his trainees any justice of it. A trainer I use to know did something like this, his logic was that by working the guys super hard they felt the workout must be good.
Remember, to get big, you have to get strong. The two are interconnected. Lift heavy, work hard, and size will come. Like night follows day. It works. Arnold
Do work son. Big Black (Rob and Big)
Doc Ken has some good stuff and has put his time in. Read up on him when you get the chance.
That being said, these people go with whatever the voices in their head tell them. It's funny at times.
Louie credits many gurus as the main reason behind his success. He always gives credit when and where it is due. I read ALL of his stuff, and try some, and keep what works, which is EXACLTY what he does. He is GREAT because HE IS ALWAYS LEARNING AND LISTENING! I do NOT follow a template and am not a slave to any system so to speak, but anyone that is willing to give credit where it is due, and to open his doors and knowledge FOR FREE is ok in my book. I would love to vist WSB as I could listen to him for hours. One of my goals is to do just that and I am going to do it one day. While I do NOT advocate any system, I DO advocate the way Louie does things, try it, use what works, be honest with yourself etc. The only big disagreement I have with his readings is the whole CNS and the way it involves the DL, but that is better left for another thread. Bottom line, Louie is an ICON in PL. To outright trash what Lou preaches is pretty much blasphemy to any old school pler. I am very good friends with Eddy Coan as a for instance, and he has always used the standard periodization in his training which goes againts WSB templates, but Eddy reads all of Louies stuff and will utilize some of it, and if you ask Lou he is ALWAYS quick to give praise to Eddy, often calling him THE BEST OF ALL TIME, that is what PL should be about, giving credit where it is due, and to disagree THE RIGHT WAY. Louie=Icon. As for Dr Ken, I have read alot of what he has written and I would love to get out to his Long Island gym (does it still exist?), but he is not on the same level as Louie IN MY PERSONAL OPINION.
Last edited by SGT ROCK; 05-08-2009 at 09:31 PM.
Just to make sure, I'm not trying to say anything negative about Milo and Dr. Ken Leistner. But to say westside barbell training is no good while laughing out loud is downright disrespectful and ignorant.
I'm willing to bet money that if you pushed that guy with questions, he really doesn't have a clue what a Westside training template or "Westside" training methods are. He knows bands and chains are used, but I bet thats about it. He also sees them as different, so they must be bad.
Take a person who is self confident and they will give credit where credit is due, ask meaningful questions, and offer constructive criticism, not belittle something they don't know. You'll also watch them get better at what they do.
Finally ELITE @ SHW..
Single ply: 931 squat, 760 bench, 530 deadlift and 2180 total
Multi ply: 960 squat, 770 bench, 550 deadlift and 2250 total.
The next stop: PRO total.
HOO's Gym: building the strongest gym in the South, one plate at a time.
louie Simmons can split adams
yes, that is a sic. boo yah!
It's hard to argue with results. Just point out the fact that he has developed hundreds(?) of elite powerlifters.
cant argue with results
Why live if one can not Deadlift?- John Paul Sigmasson
Accept that which is useful and reject what is not- Bruce Lee
Reason and Logic trump religion- Me
Restriction of education, Censorship of knowledge, and Proliferation of religion helps keep the masses tamed- Me
"Money does not fix everything, Smart fixes everything"
Ken Leistner is a good writer and knows his stuff. If I am not mistaken he was pretty heavy into HIT style training for some time (may still be).
Louie does what he feels works. He based his system heavily upon the Bulgarian and Russian Olympic weightlifting team programs (what he felt was the best of each). He took the information and extrapolated it to powerlifting and has subsequently made tweaks based upon his own thoughts and experience.
The bottom line is he is a GREAT strength coach. I truly think he is one of the best and any athletic program in the country (or anywhere else) would do well to hire him to teach their coaches.
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Just tell the a-hole that Louie wrote a number of articles for MILO years ago.
Dr. Ken's very knowledgeable about PL and is a great writer. Always liked his stuff.
A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
There is a reason Louie Simmons is a globally-respected writer and strength coach and this clown scams kids at a rec center. I would stop this guy midsentence and tell him you're not interested in his nonsense if he bothers you again. No point in arguing, his head is too far up his butt to hear you.
"Ht: 5'5" Wt: 165 lbs
Raw Gym PR's
◦Full Squat: 425
◦Bench Press: 325
I think those stats really dwarf what some people are doing usually in commercial gyms. And I'm talking about numbers that big guys put up with limited range of motion. So if I were you, I wouldn't be offended, I would just think he's putting you down to keep his income before kids start asking you for advice and offer to pay you instead of him. I know a lot of people that say they don't want to lift heavy, they just want to look good naked, but the addictive rush one gets when pushing max weights is hard to let go.
5'8" @ 204lbs
2013 Goals (single ply):
"And I'm talking about numbers that big guys put up with limited range of motion."
I don't want anyone here to think I'm putting down powerlifting with this remark. I meant flared out benches that don't touch the chest, quarter squats that aren't meant as such, etc., etc.