decided to film myself doing deadlifts. i used my old crappy form to see how just bad it really was, and was surprised it wasnt that bad. i think my only problem is that i over do my lockout. the 410 felt a lot easier than it did the last itme i pulled it and i felt like i had 430 in me.
315x10...camera cut off on me after the last rep.
370x1 speed pull........
410x1 single.... i have a tendency to shake when lifting max weights but i dont hitch them does this look like i hiotched them to you. i also was losing my grip so once i hit lockout i had to go down so it looks like i didnt hit lockout in this rep because of this.
Last edited by rctriplefresh5; 05-20-2009 at 09:50 AM.
If I may. On your 410 pull, it looked like you tried to "jerk" the bar off the floor. Squeeze it off the floor, then accelerate up. I think about pushing my feet through the floor and driving my heels into the floor (think road runner and how he coils up the road as he runs away).
I used to do the jerk thing and it seemed to rob me of some strength and thus lessened the amount I could pull.
...she looked so much cuter with something in her mouth...
From that view, it looks like your whole upper body kind of collapses and you are really rounded over (on the 410 pull). It's tough to tell how much without a side view.
It doesn't look like you even try to arch your back or even get to a flat back position before you pull. If you're really rounded over, that's probably the reason why you have such a hard time at the top.
I know some will disagree and probably site some elite lifter with a rounded back, but I've found the vast majority of people need to at least try to keep the back flat. On a max attempt, almost everyone will get rounded a little, but you seem to round over more than I'm comfortable with.
You don't hardly drop your hips at all and pretty much straight leg the entire pull. As someone else already pointed out, your upper back really rounds a lot
No offense intended, but that "speed pull" video is definitely not a speed pull. Much too slow to be considered a speed pull.
I'm still confused though (honestly) why would you want to see how bad you can do a lift? That's like me wanting to video me flaring my elbows out and bouncing a bench off my chest, just to look at it on video.
Damn, you can curl 1335 lbs?
Age: 24 Height: 5'9" Weight: 185
Gym PRs: 365/240/440=1045
People need to quit ****ing asking what they need to do, exercise wise, until they reinforce their technique - Dave Tate
The never-ending pursuit of becoming Strong(er) - My Westside journal
I agree that you almost SLDL the weight. That almost always puts you in a more difficult position to lock weights out. That's because the bar will always start away from your body, and you have to fight to pull it back into your body. You can tell the bar isn't dragging up your legs until the very end. SLDL are a very useful movement for training, but they aren't the form you want for a 1RM.
You're pretty strong for tall, lanky kid, but you aren't going to be very strong with back injuries. Just trying to give you the benefit of being an older and more experienced lifter. Take our advice if you are so inclined.
A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
If you could pull as much as Konstantivos no one would say anything because you could pull 900+. People like that are the exception, not the rule, so it's not a good idea for most people to model their technique from him. If you want an elite DL'er to emulate, look at Andy Bolton's technique.
Id drop the weight and strengthen your back by working back up to heavier weights with a good arch, as everyone else has said. You should, as Travis said, do ME pulls with the same form you train with. I know you say you can lift more with a rounded back, but as Sensei said, you wont for long once you hurt your back. I think Ive said it before to you but you really would benefit from buying Starting Strength by Rippetoe. He goes into all of this.
Last edited by ZenMonkey; 05-20-2009 at 12:45 PM.
SAFE FORM is 9/10 also the same form that will LIFT THE MOST WEIGHT. The two go hand in hand, and its essentially because form that is safe allows the cleanest transfer of force from you to the bar. This means that there will be fewer shear forces on your bones and muscles. There is an exception, though I'll get to iit in a moment.
Take the bench press for instance. According to Dave Tate, Good form for the bench encompasses 3 things...
1. Provide rock-solid stability to hold technique together
2. Maximize the mechanical advantage of the body's leverages
3. Minimize the distance the bar travels
Look at 1. Providing rock-solid stability holds your technique together, which should essentially keep you safe. But it also allows you to move more weight. Think of this crappy (yet effective) analogy: Lets say you're trying to push a large block using a long pike. Will it be easier to push the pike with a wet noodle or an iron rod? It doesn't matter how strong you are, if you're pushing using a wet noodle the force will not get transferred to whatever you're trying to push, it will dissipate in the noodle. Make your body an "iron rod" by staying really tight, and more of your force will be transferred to whatever you're trying to push. As a benefit, the stability will also help you hold your technique together, which will keep you safer (if you think about this real hard these two things are actually the same, but whatever).
Now look at 2. In Dave's article on benching, his example of this is keeping your elbows underneath the bar. If your elbows are behind or ahead of the bar, especially off the chest, your not maximizing your leverages. But maximizing your leverages also means you're getting rid of any shear forces. Take the squat for instance. When you arch your back on the squat, you're keeping your spine in line so that the transfer of force from your legs to the bar is more even and straight. If your back is rounded, some of the force goes into your spine, and not only will you move less weight, but put yourself at risk for serious injury. The same can be said for the deadlift - lifting with an arched back will allow for a better transfer of force, keeping you safer as well as helping you lift more weight.
Now comes for the exception. If you have a serious muscle imbalance, this will not always hold. "Safe form" will not always align with form that maximizes the weight lifted. This is where you are. You are incredibly weak somewhere, and much stronger somewhere else, which allows you to deadlift with your hips super high, your back rounded, and jerk with weight up, and move more weight than if you had used an arched back, kept your hips down, and ACCELERATED the weight up versus jerking it. Find where you are weak and fix it (this could be as easy as using less weight and deadlifting with perfect form, or using accessory exercises to fix your weaknesses). When you finally do fix the problem, not only will you move more weight, but you will also be much safer.
Seriously man your form is god awful, you're going to hurt yourself that way.
Obviously there are small exceptions to this. Andy bolton, for instance, rounds his back slightly when deadlifting. This is probably for several reasons, but one of them might be that he has a muscle imbalance - somewhere he is slightly weaker and somewhere he is slightly stronger. But you're missing the point - he's andy freaking bolton. He can't just throw in some good mornings or some "perfect form deadlifts" (which form him would probably be like 700 lbs) to fix it. He's pushing the very limits of human strength. It may not be physically possible for him to fix whatever slight imbalances he has- the man is already stronger than anyone who has ever been before him.
The other aspect is that a slightly rounded back (if I'm thinking correctly) shortens his range of motion slightly, allowing him to move more weight. You may be thinking "Well thats exactly what I'm doing!" No its not. Andy's round is not excessive, yours is. Furthermore, he is sacrificing a bit of safety for poundages that will allow him to deadlift more weight than anyone thought was humanely possible. When you're in that position, then by all means...
But you're not. Fix your form, and you will be safer and stronger for it.
Just ask travis about this -- if I'm not mistaken, the way he benches (slightly tucked shoulders, low touch on the belly, arch, pulled in shoulder blades...) not only allows him to move more weight, but saves his shoulder joints.
Stats: 11/15/07-First-meet--2nd Meet----3rd meet
Max Bench: 255---220-----------280------300
Max Squat: 405----395----------440------460
CHINUPS - Bodyweight + 135, x1, dead hang. Still working on the one arm chinup.
Some people will always be unwilling to allow themselves to lift less for a short time while they learn to correctly perform a lift but that is their choice.
RC, stiff legging deads in a meet is a bad idea because while you might be able to pull more doing it that way now, you'll limit yourself very quickly.
Notice how he drops his hips right before he pulls, it just doesn't look as apparant because he has quite long legs.
It doesn't matter though, you should not be trying to emulate Konstantinov's training until you are at least withing a few hundred pounds of his deadlift (948lbs)
You've had numerous experienced lifters tell you that your form does look that bad and how to correct it, yet you still seem to want to argue that your form isn't "that bad".
You've been told what to do if you want to be a better lifter, whether you listen is up to you.
I think you need to focus on squeezing your chest up more before you pull. People say you need to get your hips lower and that you're straight legging it etc, but I don't think that's a problem. It looks like your knees are still bent at the sticking point of the 410, so that means you probably aren't straight legging it. And if you really missed the 410 because of grip, switch to mixed grip.
Also, try getting a video from a better angle so we can actually see your back.
EDIT: Please don't call that 370 a speed deadlift.
Last edited by Notorious; 05-20-2009 at 07:35 PM.
RC, you've had great advice here. If it were me, I would definitely drop the weights and try to revise your form a bit. Do you own starting strength? It has a section that specifically deals with taller lifters on the deadlift IIRC.
beating a dead horse.....
No, you haven't taken the advice given here. You continue to repeat that yeah, your "1rm form" as you put it, isn't pefect, but you'd rather train with good form and then go ahead and let your form slide when you max out.
You also keep comparing or using the genetic freaks as your justification for said sloppy form. Those guys are genetic freaks for a reason. The good Lord made them to pull and they can get away with more than normal people. Nobody at a beginner level like you has any business trying to emulate them. You should work on pefecting your form regardless of the attempt.
Each time someone gives you a piece of advice you say "yeah but..." that's not agreeing or taking someone's advice.
Such is the internet though. At the end of the day it doesn't make a huge difference in my training whether or not you take the advice so I really don't take it personally. It is what it is I guess.
Seems to me like OP didn't hear the answers he wanted and now his panties are all wadded up...
In a conventional deadlift, the firing sequence is back-legs-back with the majority of powerlifters (Research Dr Tom McLaughlin). The initial drive off the floor is initiated with the lower back moreso that legs.
In the sumo deadlift, the firing sequence is legs-back (Research McLaughlin). Thus, pushing your feet through the floor is more applicalible for sumo deadlifters.
Let's start off with some positives.
1) Great Head Drive. You start with a fairly neutral head position and then drive it back.
2) Great Lower Back Strength. You have a lot of lower back strength, no question regarding that.
Now let's look at some things that will increase you deadlift.
1) Back Arch. As Sean noted, you want to maintain a bit of an arch in the deadlift, as long as possible. An arched back can produce more force, strength.
As per Marcus, rounding you back put you in a "more difficult position to lock weights out".
However, some rounding is going to occur with max loads (Sean).
2) Higher Hips. As Travis stated, you need to get you hips down. You basically want a quarter squat position. The quarter squat position allows you to produce more force.
3) Speed Deadlifts. As Travis posted, there's no speed (power) in your 315 deadlift.
As many in the group have mentioned, you need to work on you techniqiue. That is best accomplished by performing singles with fairly heavy loads.
They key to developing good technique is once your form deteriorates, STOP the movement. Continueing to perform the movement with poor technque reinforces bad technique.
Last edited by Kenny Croxdale; 05-27-2009 at 09:32 AM.