I was wondering does the Strength for locking out heavy weight in the Deadlift come from your back muscles,like Lats or is it more of a hip Strength kinda thing.Reason i ask is okay my squat is Lower than my deadlift.I feel as though i can pull almost anything off the ground but then when i get it past my knees i stall and have to hitch on a max weight.
So if it is Hips for instance then maybe i can figure out the exercises i need to do to strengthen up my weakspots for the lockout.So i thought that since my squats arent near my deadlift then maybe thats whats giving me a hard time locking weight out,because then my quads and hips might not be strong enough to push through to lockout.
Last edited by Erik 23; 05-26-2009 at 04:52 PM.
Rack pulls from mid shins and from the knees have been working nice for me. my worst spot was the initial pull but you dont have a problem with that, but decifits are working fine for me and diferent feet placement.
5'8" @ 204lbs
2013 Goals (single ply):
Do deadlifts with bands. Deadlift in a rack and tie the bands to the bottom of the rack and loop over the bar. It mimics a deadlift exactly except adds like 100lbs do the lockout (depending on the bands and your height of course).
Last edited by BFGUITAR; 05-26-2009 at 05:25 PM.
Bottom position high box squats, rack pulls, band/chain work, and tweaking your setup may all help the top portion of your deadlift.
A slightly wider stance allows you to involve more hips in the lift, and making sure to sink your hips on the initial pull will leave you in a better position to finish the lift.
If strength is what is limiting you then heavy rack work should resolve that and box squats can provide for some variation and additional hip strength.
Upper back strength is crucial for my lockout, when my DB/BB rows feel strong then my lockout is usually solid. Shooting my hips through is also key, I use pull-throughs and SLDLs and focus on popping my hips through at the top.
My Training Log
You want science and studies? **** you. I've got scars and blood and vomit. - Jim Wendler
I find hip work more useful than anything. Pulls with bands are my favorite, pulls from blocks and rack pulls with heavy band tension, GHR's, pull throughs, goodmornings.
23 years old
6'3, 308 lbs
Do you have any video of a max or near max lift? It's tough to tell what's going on without seeing what's going on. For example, I've observed that the majority of conventional DL's that stall above the knees are due to the fact that they get in poor position off the floor and are rounded over so much at the top that they can't finish. So just because the problem is above the knees doesn't necessarily mean it's the hips. It could be any number of things, so the video is important in really trying to diagnose the problem.
Last edited by Erik 23; 05-26-2009 at 09:58 PM.
Switching over to OLY squats as opposed to PL squats may have better carryover to your deadlift as well.
Heavy upper back work as Travis suggested would be a good idea as well. One arm dumbell rows with a little bit of loose form. A guy with your strength should easily be handling the heaviest DB's that your gym has.
The hang cleans may help out a bit as well. They are a good movement for building upper back power.
I find that glute, hip, and upper back strength are most important for me on DL lockouts. I pull conventional. The things that have helped me most in the past have been good mornings, glute ham raises, and heavy rack squats focusing on bringing the hips forward by squeezing your glutes tight and that usually makes me bring my shoulders back. Once it gets past my knees I just really think about squezzing my glutes, brining hips forward and lockout out knees at the same time. I don't even do any rack pulls (haven't helped me much), just a lot of the aformentioned movements and pulling from the floor and my lockouts have never been better.
One exericise the will help the top part of your pull is the Power Clean from the hang position. The hang position being just below the knee caps to just above them.
Power Cleans will work everything involved in the top part of the deadlift (lats, traps, hips, etc).
You're situation is very... weird. I've never see anyone come off the floor with that sort of speed and fail so quickly at the knees. Obviously the advice everyone is giving you is to work the top part of the lift somehow (bands, rack lockouts, etc) though just from watching your videos I'd say it is a form issue, in which case most of use aren't going to be able to help you very much. Something specific looks like it might be going wrong here, or else you're just incredibly weak at the top or something (which I don't think is the case - whats your best deadlift lockouts? Whats your best squat? both are very heavy I'm guessing). My advice to you is to ask Sgt. ROCK on this board. He is a deadlift specialist who knows what he's talking about, and if something weird is going on with your form, he'll probably know how to help.
Anyways, I'll go on ahead and give you my .02 cents about some stuff that might help you anyways. I rarely do rack lockouts and I don't pull against bands much. Eventually, when I start pulling heavier weights, I might have to start focusing on it, but I figure that as long as I have enough floor spead I should be able to make it to lock out. This is why I think its a form issue for you - when most people fail at lockout, they SLOW DOWN heavily first, they don't just stop.
anyways, I pull from deficiets a lot and do a **** ton of chin ups and pull ups. This brought my deadlift from 500 - 550 in maybe 9 months at 200 lbs while I was really concentrating on bench and squat. My best rack pull from the knees is maybe 600 lbs. I will maybe pull a few heavy singles a week and thats it.
So yeah. get your form checked is all I can tell you XD
Stats: 11/15/07-First-meet--2nd Meet----3rd meet
Max Bench: 255---220-----------280------300
Max Squat: 405----395----------440------460
CHINUPS - Bodyweight + 135, x1, dead hang. Still working on the one arm chinup.
One form tip that might help is to think about pushing your heels through the floor. It will force you to keep your weight back more and have a bit more of an upright back at the start of the pull. Also make sure the bar is over the middle of your feet when you start the pull (about 2 inches from shins). Some people start with the bar too far away and the combination of that and the not pushing through the heels makes them in a non-advantageous position for pulling once the bar gets to their knees and then that's of course where they stall out.
Erik, you're still hitching in those two videos bud.
It looks like more habit than anything else, but as soon as you lay that bar on your knees/quads, that leaning back and fourth thing is still considered hitching. At least it'll get you reds in a meet.
I'd throw in some upper back work, specifically DB rows. Hard and heavy.
To echo some others, it looks mostly like a habit you've developed. Do you do this with submax weights?
Concentrate on pushing your hips forward and picking your head up at the same time as soon as the weight clears your knees. Right now your pick your head up, but you shoot your knees forward at the same time. I think practicing correct form with submax weights and working up over a period of weeks to keep reinforcing the correct form would help. You might also consider RDL's to just below the knees. Again, push the hips forward as soon as the bar clears the knees.
Also, watch this vid of my recent 600 pull. It's not as much as some guys on here can lift but I think I have decent form for doing max effort weight. I also start to stall right around the knees and then you'll see me fight to bring my hips forward, shoulders back, and lock knees at the same time.
Last edited by Guido; 05-28-2009 at 10:48 AM.
Last edited by Erik 23; 05-29-2009 at 10:01 PM.