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Thread: Texas Method

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMonkey View Post
    This is a misunderstanding of the program. DLing heavy on "Recovery" day is a bad idea and defeats the purpose of the program. It goes on Intensity or Volume day. Additionally, the program is designed Volume, Recovery, Intensity, not all mismashed around. This might be a fine design for you but it is not Texas Method and likely less efficient. I certainly cannot recover from a heavy DL day in time for a Squat max, and if I could, Id be on SS. If one can advance on a routine like yours they may as well be on SS and if that is too much then Texas Method is the next step.
    You can't recover from one heavy set of 5 DLs in time to squat, but you can squat heavy & DL heavy in the same day?

    The principles of Stress, Rest & Test ( as well as Volume, Recovery & Intensity), still apply. They are applied however to each MOVEMENT individually as opposed to being applied to each DAY.

    Its hardly a misunderstanding, rather a different way of applying the same principles.

    Squats 5x5 for volume, front squats for recovery, max for intensity.

    Bench 5x5 for volume, oh press for recovery, max for intensity.

    DLs/pulls rows 5x5 for volume, lighter GM's or power cleans for recovery, one heavy set of FL for intensity.

  2. #27
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicjg View Post
    You can't recover from one heavy set of 5 DLs in time to squat, but you can squat heavy & DL heavy in the same day?

    The principles of Stress, Rest & Test ( as well as Volume, Recovery & Intensity), still apply. They are applied however to each MOVEMENT individually as opposed to being applied to each DAY.

    Its hardly a misunderstanding, rather a different way of applying the same principles.

    Squats 5x5 for volume, front squats for recovery, max for intensity.

    Bench 5x5 for volume, oh press for recovery, max for intensity.

    DLs/pulls rows 5x5 for volume, lighter GM's or power cleans for recovery, one heavy set of FL for intensity.
    The answer to your first question is naturally yes, as that is what the routine prescribes. I understand what you are doing, but its not Texas Method.

    Having each style per day is not the most efficient way to design things either. Texas Method is a case where the parts equal more than the sum because of how it is loaded. "Recovery", in TM, is a WO day, not a single movement in a WO day. Reread Practical Programming a bit closer. The reason it is loaded by DAY is because an intermediate cannot advance each WO and thereby must advance each week, and taxing your body 3x a week with both volume and intensity will run an intermediate into the ground. You routine is ok for a novice (not necessarily good, as a novice has no need for 3 loading patterns), but an intermediate cannot follow that for very long nor can he track his own individual recovery (much less even recover), which is the key to gaining. Thats my 2 cents and I think Rip would agree.
    Last edited by ZenMonkey; 10-21-2009 at 04:49 PM.
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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMonkey View Post
    The answer to your first question is naturally yes, as that is what the routine prescribes. I understand what you are doing, but its not Texas Method.

    Having each style per day is not the most efficient way to design things either. Texas Method is a case where the parts equal more than the sum because of how it is loaded. "Recovery", in TM, is a WO day, not a single movement in a WO day. Reread Practical Programming a bit closer. The reason it is loaded by DAY is because an intermediate cannot advance each WO and thereby must advance each week, and taxing your body 3x a week with both volume and intensity will run an intermediate into the ground. You routine is ok for a novice (not necessarily good, as a novice has no need for 3 loading patterns), but an intermediate cannot follow that for very long nor can he track his own individual recovery (much less even recover), which is the key to gaining. Thats my 2 cents and I think Rip would agree.
    Alright I won't continue to beat this horse, I was only giving my opinion. But...

    Nowhere online or in the book does Rip ever say that Monday needs to be a volume day for EVERY movement. He gives two examples, each SEPARATE, that has it laid out like Monday 5x5, Wednesday recovery, Friday as a high intensity day. And actually if you look at some of his posts, he's careful not to call "Friday"a test day, since the high intensity work also acts as a stress.

    Alot of Rip's ideas are based on Bill Starr's theories. One of Starr's "adjustments" for what he called "low-energy" trainees, is pretty much what I laid out.

    Again, I'm not looking to argue the point, your original post was very well written and accurate, I only wanted to "supplement" what you had as an alternative for some trainees who were unable to, for whatever reason, go heavy on all movements on the same day.

    The question of what would Rip say, I think his quote from his own Q&A when asked if a particular TM routine was 100% correct, might be his response:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    I don't feel 100% on these issues either. At some point you must trust your own experience and judgement, which develops over time. The principles in the book I do feel quite confident about, so draft your program based on those and adjust it as you learn.

  4. #29
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    Very interesting!

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicjg View Post
    Alright I won't continue to beat this horse, I was only giving my opinion. But...

    Nowhere online or in the book does Rip ever say that Monday needs to be a volume day for EVERY movement. He gives two examples, each SEPARATE, that has it laid out like Monday 5x5, Wednesday recovery, Friday as a high intensity day. And actually if you look at some of his posts, he's careful not to call "Friday"a test day, since the high intensity work also acts as a stress.

    Alot of Rip's ideas are based on Bill Starr's theories. One of Starr's "adjustments" for what he called "low-energy" trainees, is pretty much what I laid out.

    Again, I'm not looking to argue the point, your original post was very well written and accurate, I only wanted to "supplement" what you had as an alternative for some trainees who were unable to, for whatever reason, go heavy on all movements on the same day.

    The question of what would Rip say, I think his quote from his own Q&A when asked if a particular TM routine was 100% correct, might be his response:
    Then go ask him on his forums yourself, if my answer is not convincing enough. He does, implicitly or not, say intensity is the day to "test" what gains have been achieved in the preceding week and the nature of intermediate routines is having various loading parameters to get around not being able to go higher volume or intense each and every training day. So you tell me who would get the most gains from your setup, because it certainly is not the intermediate or advanced trainee. Since that is the case it should only be suitable for a novice. I understand what you are doing but it does not follow Rips parameters.
    Last edited by ZenMonkey; 10-22-2009 at 08:20 AM.
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMonkey View Post
    Then go ask him on his forums yourself, if my answer is not convincing enough.
    I'm confused. Ask him what exactly?

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicjg View Post
    I'm confused. Ask him what exactly?
    Ask him what he thinks of your routine.
    Sarvamangalam!

  8. #33
    Senior Member hardgainer169's Avatar
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    What day would be best to include chin ups on??
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    Bench 225x1 | Squat 325x1 | Deadlift 355x5
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  9. #34
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardgainer169 View Post
    What day would be best to include chin ups on??
    Post the version of TM you will be doing.
    Sarvamangalam!

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMonkey View Post
    Movement choice is up to you. This is an example of a basic setup

    Squat 5x5
    Bench 5x5
    Row 5x5

    Front Squat 3x3
    GM 2x5
    OH Press 2x5

    Squat to Heavy 5
    Bench to Heavy 5
    DL to Heavy 5

    The only trick here is making sure what you did the WO before does not inhibit what you push for on "Intensity Day"

    I hope this answered your question. If it is still not clear the feel free to ask more questions.
    Thanks Zen! I like this setup better then the one you posted originally. I was waiting to reply because I got a little confused with the other routine vicjg posted. I also like to do situps, and pullups. What day would you recommend I throw them in? I will be using this routine. I'll start it Monday so I can start on the first day.

    Quote Originally Posted by dadan View Post
    This is awesome dude, but one thing though. Deadlifts shouldn't go on recovery day though in the TM. Deads should either be placed on Volume day or Intensity day. Personally, I put them on Intensity day when I did the TM. This can be confirmed by Rippetoe on his forum..
    On the routine above that I quoted Zen has them on Intensity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbtrout View Post
    HARDGAINER = NOT EATING ENOUGH

  11. #36
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    Id put situps on "Volume" day and

    Pullups on recovery day depending on how I recovered for intensity OR on intensity day depending on how I recover for the next volume day's rows.

    Just play it by ear and see how things go.
    Sarvamangalam!

  12. #37
    Senior Member hardgainer169's Avatar
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    How about this:

    Volume
    bench
    Row
    Squat
    Power clean

    Recovery
    OH press
    front squat
    GM
    Chin ups

    Intensity
    Squat
    Bench
    Deadlift

    Would that overtrain the back and/or biceps? Or should I just try it and see
    age---------22
    weight------140 145 150 155 160 165 170 and counting
    height------ 5'9"


    Bench 225x1 | Squat 325x1 | Deadlift 355x5
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    Remember - if it were easy then everyone would do it.

  13. #38
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    Squat
    Clean
    Bench
    Row

    Front squat
    OH Press
    GM

    Squat
    Bench
    Deadlift
    Chins



    Thats probably how Id do it. Squats and Clean take priority because they are more complex lifts.], but youve got the right idea. If you feel you big 3 stalling then take a look at the "extras" that have been added. Go get em big guy!
    Last edited by ZenMonkey; 10-28-2009 at 04:37 PM.
    Sarvamangalam!

  14. #39
    Senior Member hardgainer169's Avatar
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    I will give this a shot, thanks Zen.
    age---------22
    weight------140 145 150 155 160 165 170 and counting
    height------ 5'9"


    Bench 225x1 | Squat 325x1 | Deadlift 355x5
    My Journal

    Remember - if it were easy then everyone would do it.

  15. #40
    Wannabebig Member shutUpAndSquat's Avatar
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    Hi guys

    Hi guys!

    I'm new on this forum! I'm italian so forgive my english!
    As you can imagine i'm following the texas method.
    So, a few things to point out before presenting my template:
    1. I believe my posterior chain is a weakness, so that's the focus
    2. i have to train late at night because of work (really an issue)
    3. i'm applying the conjugate method
    4. my body weight is circa 75kg, i can bench press 3x3 102,5kg, squat 3x3 147,5kg and deadlift 1x3 142,5kg (sorry if i don't use pounds, but in my country we use kilos)
    5. I can't use chains, bends, boards, or whatever
    6. I can't do power cleans (or high pulls) or any lift that force me to drop the weight on the floor during the eccentric phase (or in any phase for what matters, my gym doesn't allow this)

    so this was the background, here is the template:

    Monday:
    Sumo Squat 5x5
    some type of Close Grip Bench/Floor Press 5x5
    Bent-knees Arched-Back GoodMornings 5x5
    Upper back movement 3x5 (this depends on how i feel at this point of the workout)

    Wednesday:
    Low Box Squat 2x5
    Overhead Press 3x3
    Glut Ham Raises 2x5
    Dips (or some sort of assistance work for the bench press) 3x3

    Friday:
    one of Front Squat/Zercher Squat/Low Bar Back Squat/Deadlift (i choose at the moment how many reps, could be from 1x1 up to 1x5)
    some type of Close Grip Bench/Floor (the same as before for what concern the reps choice)
    RDL/SLDL/Rack Pulls/ or some tipe of partial deadlift 3x3
    Rows 3x3

    Abs work is done twice a week usually on mondays and fridays, i alternate some kind of sit-ups with some kind o side-bend.

    Now, with regards to my exercise choice i have to say that:
    1. as soon as i'm not able to add weight on monday i'll switch. So let's say next monday i won't be able to add weight on sumo squat, i'll switch it for another squat variation untill i'm able to push more weight
    2. on friday i go heavy only on a squat variation and on a bench press variation, the other exercices are there for assitance work, they are not intended for a max effort. I switch my max effort exercices every two weeks.

    What do you think about this template? can it still be considered a texas method? What about my choice to use the conjugate method?
    Remember my main concern is working the posteriour chain, because at the moment i feel this is a great imbalance for me.

    Thanks
    Last edited by shutUpAndSquat; 10-29-2009 at 04:13 AM.

  16. #41
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    Im sure that would work but you may be jumping the gun on how advanced your body is. Try sticking to a much simpler template for the time being, so in the future, if your body REQUIRES something more advanced it will respond to a more advanced routine. Doing a routine too advanced for your level will not yield as great results as something closer to your level. You seem to have a good grasp on things but dont let that be your downfall by doing something too complex.
    Sarvamangalam!

  17. #42
    Wannabebig Member shutUpAndSquat's Avatar
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    ok! so probably it is better to leave out the conjugate part of the template (with all the switching-exercise related stuff) and i should come up with something simpler.

  18. #43
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    Correct.
    Sarvamangalam!

  19. #44
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    Just making sure I am doing the "Intensity day" of the TM workout correctly.

    After warming up and working up to my 5 rep max, do I do any drop sets afterward or is it just put up the most weight you can for 5 reps and then move onto to another exercise?

    Here is what I did last Intensity day (The next Intensity day will consist of Squat, Bench, and Deadlifts. I did not do Deadlifts this time as I had them on the Volume day along with Power Cleans, this will change next workout week).

    Squat
    45 x 2 x 5, 95 x 5, 135 x 5, 155 x 5
    Working Set
    200 x 5

    Bench
    45 x 2 x 5, 85 x 5, 105 x 5, 125 x 5
    Working Set
    160 x 5 (First time doing a 5 RM, I put up 3 then had to be spotted for the last 2. Will do 155 next time)

    Dips
    BW x 8, BW x 5

    Just wondering if after I did my 5RM of 200 x 5 for squats if I am then suppose to do a few drop sets like 190 x 5, or 180 x 5.

    Thanks

  20. #45
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    That will probably work just fine but judging by your numbers you should probably try SS first. The method in which one does intensity will vary depending on how your body recovers from doing drop sets.
    Last edited by ZenMonkey; 11-02-2009 at 07:59 AM.
    Sarvamangalam!

  21. #46
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    Yes, my friend with those numbers you will progress well with SS.

    I'm starting TM today though! I cant wait!
    My Journal: http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...=1#post2241618


    Quote Originally Posted by rbtrout View Post
    HARDGAINER = NOT EATING ENOUGH

  22. #47
    Wannabebig Member shutUpAndSquat's Avatar
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    brian do you have a training log? tomorrow starts my second week of texas and i would like to share thoughs with other people.
    my texas method training log

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutUpAndSquat View Post
    brian do you have a training log? tomorrow starts my second week of texas and i would like to share thoughs with other people.
    Yes http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...=125163&page=2
    My Journal: http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...=1#post2241618


    Quote Originally Posted by rbtrout View Post
    HARDGAINER = NOT EATING ENOUGH

  24. #49
    Small guy depotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMonkey View Post
    That will probably work just fine but judging by your numbers you should probably try SS first. The method in which one does intensity will vary depending on how your body recovers from doing drop sets.
    Thank you very much for your advice. I actually look to read your posts concerning these two workouts. It is very helpful for me and I imagine for a lot of people not well versed in lifting.

    I originally started out with Starting Strength as my workout (thanks to this site), and used it for roughly 3 months (6/23 - 10/09).

    Here are my numbers I started and ended with -
    ---------Start----------------------End
    Squat - 125 x 3 x 5 --------------185 x 3 x 5
    Bench - 105 x 3 x 5 --------------145 x 3 x 5
    Deadlift - 185 x 3 x 5 -------------240 x 3 x 5
    Power Cln 45 x 5 x 3 ----------130 x 5 x 3
    SOP ----45 x 3 x 5 ---------------80 x 5 x 3

    I figured it was time to move on when my squat would not go up. It would constantly get stuck around 185 - 195 x 3 x 5, and never get above 195. I tried to deload it 3 - 4 times. It wasn't progressing like it had previously and even though my other lifts were still progressing nicely, I really like squatting and figured if jumping up to the next level (TM) would help unstick my squatting I was game to do it.

    I will fess up and admit that my sleep and eating were not always where they needed to be for making progress on my lifts. I can pretty much guess you guys are going to advise I go back to SS and get those things in order first before moving on to TM.

    If the advice is to go back to using SS, and focus more on my diet and adequate sleep I will gladly do so. There is also something to be said for going to a new workout, as far as bringing a change to the routine that you have been grinding out. Which is one of the things which helped push to changing to TM.

    Thanks for all the help, very much humbling and appreciated.
    Last edited by depotman; 11-02-2009 at 07:03 PM.

  25. #50
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    hmmm, 3 months is very little IMO. Should have shot for 6 months at least. I ended up with a 365 squat, I still had plenty left in the tank though. I still did more squats afterwards, and 365 went up easy. I do remember getting stuck at 225 squat for a long time. I just kept working at 225 for some time. You will get stuck and have to workout with the same weight sometimes I did SS for over 8 months. If I increased 5lbs on my squat every time, and deloaded a couple times I would still have a 500+lb squat. Thats not possible. Stick with 185, squat deeper, and take less break between sets (this is what helped me break free from 225) I have to admit thats when I started eating a lot more, so that helped me progress also. If you said yourself that your not eating or sleeping enough then that's probably your problem.

    I'm no pro but thats just my experience with the routine. If you get the Texas Method book. Rip said for my weight (200lb range I think) I should have a 155lb press, 225lb bench, 301lb squat, 351 dead, and 217 power clean before I consider myself an intermediate. Whats your weight by any chance?
    Last edited by Brian999; 11-02-2009 at 10:31 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbtrout View Post
    HARDGAINER = NOT EATING ENOUGH

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