The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Its no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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Thread: Overhead Press

  1. #26
    Chubbs McGee Auburn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackboard View Post
    Kipping on Pull ups equals cheating, no way around it.
    And getting hot women because you've got millions in the bank is cheating, and using drugs to help you recover quicker is cheating, and doing anything other than my approved way is absolutely cheating. Long live the internet.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auburn View Post
    And getting hot women because you've got millions in the bank is cheating, and using drugs to help you recover quicker is cheating, and doing anything other than my approved way is absolutely cheating. Long live the internet.
    blah blah blah, its has nothing to do with approved ways, Kipping on pull ups equals not real pull ups thats just a fact. No different than putting 900lbs on the squat rack and claiming it as your max after going down 2 inches. You can still hold records, be strong, win fitness man of the year but it not the real deal.

  3. #28
    Chubbs McGee Auburn's Avatar
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    Kipping on a pullup is certainly a pullup when you're doing a kipping pullup. That pesky modifier changing the meaning of the exercise and rocking the fitness community to its very core.

    Every exercise has its place. There are no bad exercises, just stupid people that can't program well. If you're upset that some Crossfit people say they can do X number of pullups, and you're thinking strict pullups and they're talking about kipping ones...welcome to oral communication.
    Last edited by Auburn; 06-17-2009 at 07:33 PM.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ_H View Post
    kipping is good for developing explosive lats and legs to some degree. Humping biceps curls is good for nothing. While I would not recommend kipping for hypertrophy, again its decent for explosiveness, here is a vid of konstantinov (one of the best, arguably THE best deadlifter in the world) doing kipping pullups: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boLl8...eature=related

    As for OH press, I like how vincent dizenzo presses, just an alternative: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzjxD...om=PL&index=30
    Nice job by Vincent! Damn....
    Last edited by Tim K; 06-17-2009 at 07:50 PM.

  5. #30
    My own personal trainer dumbbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kastro View Post
    Rip recently produced a dvd series detailing the coaching of all the lifts in SS. It's ridiculously cheap, something on the range of $20.
    Very well worth the price. Great companion to the book. Put some money in the guys pocket if you can. If you're like me and don't have access to a coach, the information is priceless.
    Jason

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  6. #31
    My own personal trainer dumbbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackboard View Post
    Kipping on Pull ups equals cheating, no way around it.
    This is BS. It's not a "cheating" pull up, it's a different exercise all together. They each have their own benefits to offer. It's like when people compare weight lifted on a trap bar deadlift compared to a conventional deadlift. Two separate and totally different exercises. Apples and oranges.

    Whose being cheated, anyways? We don't even all have the same goals necessarily.
    Jason

    It is currently a fad, at this writing, for boys to think they need a "six pack", although most of them don't have an ice chest to put it in.
    -Mark Rippetoe

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by dumbbell View Post
    This is BS. It's not a "cheating" pull up, it's a different exercise all together. They each have their own benefits to offer. It's like when people compare weight lifted on a trap bar deadlift compared to a conventional deadlift. Two separate and totally different exercises. Apples and oranges.

    Whose being cheated, anyways? We don't even all have the same goals necessarily.

    Exactly. It makes me laugh when people talk about cheating. Does it make anyone less of a person if you say that you can do 10 pullups and someone else says that they can do 20 with kipping? Is it really worth getting all bothered about or having a big angry debate about it?

    But to go back to my original post. If your goal is to do lots of pullups kipping is a totally legitimate method. To all those who say kipping is cheating and making it easier...do you think that you could do the number of pullups that some CF people can do kipping or not? After all, you think kipping is cheating and making it easier, so it shouldn't be a problem for you. Unless you've tried it and done it, you don't have much footing for an argument.

    The cheating argument is ONLY valid if you are interested in having bragging rights about the number of pullups you can do. If you don't care, then you shouldn't be interested in what number or what style other people do it in.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 06-17-2009 at 08:51 PM.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songsangnim View Post
    Exactly. It makes me laugh when people talk about cheating. Does it make anyone less of a person if you say that you can do 10 pullups and someone else says that they can do 20 with kipping? Is it really worth getting all bothered about or having a big angry debate about it?

    I see no one getting worked up or losing sleep. It's real simple, kipping pull ups aren't regular pull ups.......that is all. It doesn't mean people should cancel their kipping workout or give examples of Mr. World Kipping.

    Example, I could load the squat rack to 405 and do a set of 20 quarter squats. Great workout no doubt but how many people would accept quarter squats? Matter of fact, would you give me a thumbs up for that set of 20?

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackboard View Post
    I see no one getting worked up or losing sleep. It's real simple, kipping pull ups aren't regular pull ups.......that is all. It doesn't mean people should cancel their kipping workout or give examples of Mr. World Kipping.

    Example, I could load the squat rack to 405 and do a set of 20 quarter squats. Great workout no doubt but how many people would accept quarter squats? Matter of fact, would you give me a thumbs up for that set of 20?
    But no one is saying that kipping pull-ups are regular pull ups...that's why they are called kipping to distinguish them from regular ones.

    And your analogy is not comparable. People (generally speaking) do not do the 20 squat method (with 400+ lbs on the bar) to be conditioned (although you should gain some conditioning after you do it for awhile.) They do it to get bigger and stronger. Doing quarter squats will not simply be as effective for that.

    Kipping pull ups on the other hand are generally for metabolic conditioning (as another poster pointed out). You are comparing apples with oranges here. It's simply a way to get the most out of one's workout. Different goals call for different methods.

    As for cheating it's only cheating if you are in a competition with somebody who kips and you don't and the rules of said competition state no kipping. Otherwise it's just a different style of training.

    It just seems that some people are getting upset by it to the point where they call it cheating...not realizing that CFs have different goals than them and the CFs are NOT comparing their kipping pull ups to these other people's regular pull ups and saying that they are stronger because they can do more pull ups. And they are not saying that their kipping pull ups are the same as regular pull ups. They train for different goals, thus using different methods...hardly cheating. Unless you're in a competition with them...I don't understand why you would even care.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 06-17-2009 at 11:37 PM.

  10. #35
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Well, Konstantinov does those type of chins and he is a pretty well built and strong guy...

    Anyway, I wish I had the shoulder flexibility of those kids in the video.


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  11. #36
    My own personal trainer dumbbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post

    Anyway, I wish I had the shoulder flexibility of those kids in the video.
    Ha ha! It sounds like Rip does too. He says in the clip that he'd require 20 min. of warm up to be able to do it.
    Jason

    It is currently a fad, at this writing, for boys to think they need a "six pack", although most of them don't have an ice chest to put it in.
    -Mark Rippetoe

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimum08 View Post
    opinions on behind the head OHP?
    If you have healthy shoulders, these are fine. I especially like Snatch-Grip Behind-the-Neck Presses!

  13. #38
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    Pull-ups... kipping... I thought this thread was about overhead presses?

  14. #39
    Cock-Diesel Bound Optimum08's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xellarz View Post
    If you have healthy shoulders, these are fine. I especially like Snatch-Grip Behind-the-Neck Presses!
    Thats what i was thinking. I personally like behind-the-head better than in-front-of-the-head, as i feel it in my shoulders and tris more, but I'm willing to switch if it endangers shoulder well-being in the long-run.
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