The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
Latest Article

The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
More Recent Articles
Contrast Training for Size
By: Lee Boyce
An Interview with Marianne Kane of Girls Gone Strong
By: Jordan Syatt
What Supplements Should I be Taking? By: Jay Wainwright
Bench Like a Girl By: Julia Ladewski
Some Thoughts on Building a Big Pull By: Christopher Mason

Facebook Join Facebook Group       Twitter Follow on Twitter       rss Subscribe via RSS
Results 1 to 20 of 20

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    4,565

    WTF is up with rack pulls being HARDER then deadlifts???

    I saw a video yesterday from another forum where this guy rack pulled 625, and his current best deadlift is 515. I was amazed that he was able to pull over 100 more lbs. on the rack (at knee height) then from the ground.

    I decided I'd give them a shot for the first time ever yesterday. My current best deadlift is 420 lbs. Well, yesterday I decided to go for a heavy single after my normal deadlift workout:

    135 x 5
    225 x 3
    315 x 1
    405 x 3 - pretty easy for me.

    Then I loaded the bar with 5 plates, which is 495. It wouldn't even budge, and in fact I just didn't feel like I had the mechanical advantage that I do in a regular deadlift due to the lack of leg drive.

    So I tried reducing it to 455 lbs....again nothing at all. Now, this wasn't even like I felt as if I gave it my 100% effort to pull from the pins. No, this felt like I probably would struggle with 315 even because I felt much much weaker without my legs being involved.

    So this make me wonder, am I doing something wrong? Because I always thought rack pulls were supposed to be somewhat easier then deadlifts. I've attempted deadlifts off the ground before that were too heavy for me to budge, but I felt as if I gave it a much better effort then from the pins at least.

    Any suggestions?
    How to Find Your Dream Job
    My personal blog/website dedicated to giving answers on the age old question - how to escape the "rat race". I now play guitar for a living!

  2.    Support Wannabebig and use AtLarge Nutrition Supplements!


  3. #2
    1471, gotta have it Kenny Powers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    127
    well if you have never done them before its probably not best to expect amazing results. the height at which you pull from and your body proportions can determine how much easier/harder it is for you to do compared to deads off the floor

    personally, i could always rack pull from below the knee more than i could DL. however, they also have virtually no carryover to floor deadlifts for me so i never do them

  4. #3
    GFH Lones Green's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    6,863
    Different people at different heights have different leverages, so a certain height might be harder than a full range dead. For me, I've practiced my full range deadlift form so much I feel much more comfortable doing full range than rack pulls.

    Do pulls with bands instead. Harder to setup? Yes. But your form stays the same, and you don't have to worry about different PR's at different pin heights. You pretty much get the advantage of pulling from all the pins.

    Lou talks about this a lot

    EDIT: Also, if you haven't done them much in the past, you might just not be used to them. The need for a stronger grip, the heavier weight, the need to strain to get the weight off the pins.
    Last edited by Lones Green; 06-16-2009 at 11:19 AM.
    23 years old
    6'3, 308 lbs

    825 Squat
    470 Bench
    645 Deadlift
    1905 total
    www.atlargenutrition.com

  5. #4
    Go Bears Pete22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    2,557
    I'm weaker at rack pulls too, probably because I never do them. Try block pulls (elevating the plates on mats/blocks) or pulling against bands like Lones suggested, they just feel more natural and you get the flex of the bar instead of just dead weight off the pins (if that makes sense).
    My Training Log

    You want science and studies? **** you. I've got scars and blood and vomit. - Jim Wendler

  6. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,329
    Also depends on *how* you rack pull. Many guys don't have nearly the same motion as their regular pull allowing them to pull more weight. I don't think this is any help for the regular pull

  7. #6
    ANVIL POWER Detard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    5,534
    Yeah, dont expect much on your first time. Eventually you'll be able to rackpull much much more than your deadlift.
    w:225lbs. h:5'10.
    630/385/545/1560
    Journal | Vids

    "im ready for the ladies too, my stomach has never been bigger and ive never been hairier." - Stumprrp

    TJW

  8. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    2,486
    I deadlift less with the plates on boxes. I asked Louie about this at a seminar. He said it meant my lower back was weak. Increasing my lower back training has helped a lot. My deadlift off boxes is improving (+70 lbs) and so is my comp deadlift (+27 lbs). A 6" box seems to be where I'm weakest and generate the least power.
    www.wildirongym.com
    Become a fan of Wild Iron on Facebook:
    http://tinyurl.com/WildIron

  9. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    ohio
    Posts
    601
    the reason ppl dl with different variations is to attack weaknesses....in one variation if your really good at it...you prolly dont need to do it to often...if you find one you really suck at...you should prolly do it more...like for me a pin 4 rack pull...i really suck at it....in january i pulled 705...a few weeks before it i pulled 645 from that pin....so dont worry about I should beable to do alot more from so and so height...just find where your weak...then tear it up

  10. #9
    Senior Member SELK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,946
    I can hit my max deadlift from the ground for 5-6 reps if I put it on a rack at knee height. Funny thing is my sticking point on the deadlift is the lockout. The positioning is so much different. I think they are usefull for building up your grip + traps + upperback but they don't directly carryover.
    960/530/749 @ 242
    903/524/738 @ 220

  11. #10
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    4,565
    Yes, all these replies do make sense. I thought I was just doing them wrong, but I guess it's because I'm just not used to them. I was a little upset, because I would have been happy as hell walking out of the gym yesterday knowing that I held 495 lbs. in my hands.

    Honestly I was only planning on starting to do them to help my deadlift, but I will look into some of the other methods instead.
    How to Find Your Dream Job
    My personal blog/website dedicated to giving answers on the age old question - how to escape the "rat race". I now play guitar for a living!

  12. #11
    IRL my name is Trent Hazerboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,467
    Quote Originally Posted by brihead301 View Post
    Yes, all these replies do make sense. I thought I was just doing them wrong, but I guess it's because I'm just not used to them. I was a little upset, because I would have been happy as hell walking out of the gym yesterday knowing that I held 495 lbs. in my hands.

    Honestly I was only planning on starting to do them to help my deadlift, but I will look into some of the other methods instead.
    After one session, I wouldn't throw them out entirely. It takes a long time to figure out what sort of carryover you'll get from a certain exercise --just because they didn't work for someone else doesn't mean they won't work for you. Don't throw them out just because you suck at them or you don't like them - spend some time figuring out if they work for you, then make a decision from there. Just make sure your groove is about the same for regular deadlifts.

    Don't worry too much about the weight though. My best deadlift is 551 and my best rack pull is only 600 from the knees. Percentage wise, thats probably very similar to what you're getting.
    Stats: 11/15/07-First-meet--2nd Meet----3rd meet
    Weight: 185-----187---------198---------198
    Max Bench: 255---220-----------280------300
    Max Squat: 405----395----------440------460
    Max Dead:475-----485----------551------570
    CHINUPS - Bodyweight + 135, x1, dead hang. Still working on the one arm chinup.

  13. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    2,486
    If you suck at something that means you should do it more not less.
    www.wildirongym.com
    Become a fan of Wild Iron on Facebook:
    http://tinyurl.com/WildIron

  14. #13
    Who you callin' Clown? TUEFELHUNDEN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Windsor, WI
    Posts
    292
    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusWild View Post
    If you suck at something that means you should do it more not less.
    Agreed! Throw it in for some variation in your WO but keep the deads as your main.
    Goal = IM 70.3 Racine 2010 (Sub 5 hour)
    LOG----->http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...58#post2079858

  15. #14
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    4,565
    Ya, I'd have to figure out how to program them in though. Right now I do deads every 4th training day (bench day, squat day, oh day, and dead day), and I just figured I'd use my regular deadlift progression as a warm up to a heavy single on a rack pull. Maybe I'll give them another shot on next dead day, or maybe I'll even chuck them on another day.
    How to Find Your Dream Job
    My personal blog/website dedicated to giving answers on the age old question - how to escape the "rat race". I now play guitar for a living!

  16. #15
    Starting from scratch NickW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    La Porte, IN
    Posts
    205
    I can pull less weight from the racks than I can pull off the floor, my weakness is right between mid-shin and the knee so I pull from below that point to build up my strength. I do nothing but rackpulls (or variations, throw in bands, chains, etc.) 90% of the time.

  17. #16
    big on TONING dynamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Cockeysville, MD
    Posts
    1,219
    I always used rack pulls to focus on my back, above the knee hit my upper back most and at knee and below i hit my lower back alot so I don't necessarily do rack pulls to help with deads but I do use them as a compound exercise to strengthen my back which helps me lock out and working my lower back definitely helps me get heavier weights off the floor as i proceed to the lock out.

    P.S. I usually do rack pulls on deadlift days and my hands hurt so much I usually only rack pull 80% or so of my deadlift.
    Last edited by dynamo; 06-16-2009 at 08:11 PM.
    My journal
    Goal(Current):
    400(335) Bench Press
    600(520x3 2xBW) Dead Lift
    500(495x1) ATG Squat
    Total: 1500(1350)
    365 Front Squat
    consistency and intensity.

  18. #17
    Senior Member Erik 23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    401
    I agree with Nick W i am weaker off the rack then i am off the floor everyones height leverages are differnt i seen guys pull 600+ out of the rack but have trouble with 500 + off the floor then you got guys like me who can pull heavy off the floor but i pull less out of the rack so its mostly leverages strong,weak points etc..

  19. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Alabama, USA
    Posts
    1,529
    I'd agree with LonesXedge that using bands to deadlift is a more productive alternative to rack pulls for improving your deadlift. I only do them occasionally but even doing them once in a while has helped my speed off the floor. I use the green bands on the jumpstretch platform and you really have to drive the weight up fast and hard from the floor to finish against the doubled bands. They carry over to the DL very well, while I've never gotten much help from rack pulls. But, everyone's different.
    Proudly Sponsored by Titan Support Systems Inc. and 'Monster Barbell'
    Training log: (Mastermonster's Quest For The Records)

  20. #19
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    40
    Quote Originally Posted by mastermonster View Post
    I'd agree with LonesXedge that using bands to deadlift is a more productive alternative to rack pulls for improving your deadlift. I only do them occasionally but even doing them once in a while has helped my speed off the floor. I use the green bands on the jumpstretch platform and you really have to drive the weight up fast and hard from the floor to finish against the doubled bands. They carry over to the DL very well, while I've never gotten much help from rack pulls. But, everyone's different.
    You use doubled green bands on the jump stretch platform, as in doubled average bands?? Or doubled green mini bands??

    JJ

  21. #20
    GFH Lones Green's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    6,863
    Quote Originally Posted by jthomas View Post
    You use doubled green bands on the jump stretch platform, as in doubled average bands?? Or doubled green mini bands??

    JJ
    You could use either. mastermonster is a beast, I wouldn't doubt he uses doubled averages bands a bit
    23 years old
    6'3, 308 lbs

    825 Squat
    470 Bench
    645 Deadlift
    1905 total
    www.atlargenutrition.com

Similar Threads

  1. Rack too high for rack pulls
    By Piotr Colossus in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 07-25-2008, 02:58 PM
  2. Rack Pulls how much ROM
    By mikesbytes in forum Powerlifting and Strength Training
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 03-23-2008, 08:29 PM
  3. Westside 'Til You Die!
    By silles in forum Powerlifting and Strength Training
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 12-20-2007, 05:49 AM
  4. Rack pulls?
    By JConrad in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 11-28-2006, 10:50 PM
  5. Deadlift Article
    By -supernatural- in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10-21-2002, 10:37 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •