The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
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    Mass gain for the ecto: Q for Berfles and others

    I am unable to PM as as I've just joined but I am interested in Berfles and any others' opinions who have been in the same shoes as me.

    I've been reading your posts and am really impressed with your progress. I see you are rather like me (in terms of your attitude towards food) so I thought I would ask for some advice.

    I have a seriously fast metab 130 lbs at almost 5ft 11, I have utterly no desire to be eating all today and I have a **** appetite. I need to get 4000-5000kcal to gain (better 5000kcals)

    The most success I've ver had is by driniing a gallon of whole milk on top of 2-3 meals (1000-1500kcals) but I gained a measly 10lbs after MONTHS of work, and all it takes is a holiday/ illness/ few heavy nights out drinking to knock me down to square one. This is frustrating to say the least.

    SOme people have advised my that I simply have to eat and shakes will not help. But I've always thought a kcal is a kcal. If you can get it from blended food if necessary what's the big deal?

    Moreover it would be so much work for me to eat the damned kcals needed to grow and because I lose weight so easily, my life would be extremely frustrating if it just revolved around eating all the time only to lose it after a a few days of inconsistent eating.

    I have seen the bako shake, but I don't like PB and I'm no sure how long I could stomach that thing.

    My training is not the problem, I train 2-3 x wk, alternateing SQ at DL, only compound exercise my lifts 1.5x BW

    Any advice would be much appreciated..

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  3. #2
    Squat Heavy, Squat Often Cards's Avatar
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    I would track what you eat...I believe I have a fast metabolism as well and i'm around 170. I eat about 4k calories aday. at 131 lbs, you're probably not eating as much as you believe.
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  4. #3
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    I drank the additional gallon of whole milk for 2 years, and I was pretty consisent. The odd drinking session on the wknd on the side and illness/holiday.

    I know I am not getting enough kcals. My max intake on that plan was about 3600 kcals. I think I need more in the range of 5000. I just haven't been able to find a way to do this consitently as yet...

  5. #4
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    force it. it doesn't matter if you are hungry or not you have to force it. eventually it will get easier.

    shakes can help if you can get more calories that way, but that is all that matters is you get the cals in. shakes or food won't make a difference.

  6. #5
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    Hi Reko,

    I think that's why Berfles post have been an inspiration to me. I may have to accept that I'm gonna have to be uncomfortable most(all) of the time. HOwever, I refuse to devote my life to eating. I have other interests and a busy life/ demanding job. If I can slam down the nutrition as a shake with minimal interruption to my life then that is ideal.

    The only problem is ideally I want anextremely high kcal concoction which doesn't kill my already poor appetite and is digestible.

    But does the above exist...
    Last edited by Tempest; 04-28-2009 at 03:45 PM.

  7. #6
    student of the game Runty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
    HOwever, I refuse to devote my life to eating. I have other interests and a busy life/ demanding job.
    So does everyone on this board. But we all manage to stuff our faces. I do and I'm probably one of the skinniest s.o.b.s on here. Some one posted a simple rule a while back about gaining. If you get hungry, you're losing the battle. The only meal I actually eat everyday due to hunger is breakfast, then I gotta stay full nonstop all day to gain.
    Last edited by Runty; 04-28-2009 at 03:51 PM.
    "Fine, if I'm not allowed to light it on fire, can my imaginary friend?"

  8. #7
    Sack Up! mcdonough9395's Avatar
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    Yeah just have on the go kind of food with you all the time so you dont have to stop to eat ... hard boiled eggs, turkey and PB sandwiches, protein bars, candy bars. And make your shakes with as many calorie dense ingredients as possible ... weight gainer, PB, ice cream, olive oil, chocolate syrup, snickers bars, bananas.

  9. #8
    Squat Heavy, Squat Often Cards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Runty View Post
    So does everyone on this board. But we all manage to stuff our faces. I do and I'm probably one of the skinniest s.o.b.s on here. Some one posted a simple rule a while back about gaining. If you get hungry, you're losing the battle. The only meal I actually eat everyday due to hunger is breakfast, then I gotta stay full nonstop all day to gain.
    this sums everything up. If i'm just sitting around for an hour or so inbetween classes or work I try to eat. Before bed, when I wake up, after I shower. Any time in the day when i'm near my house and have 10 minutes to make food I eat.

    as Runty said, we all do it. It's part of the sport.
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  10. #9
    Senior Member berfles's Avatar
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    I'm here at work right now so I can't really go in depth, but I'll explain what kind of shakes I make how I feel throughout the day when I get home.
    22 - 5'10@236lbs!
    Bench - 325 (old)
    Squat - 455x2 (old)
    Deadlift - 500(old)

    Total: 1280lbs 100% raw




    The key to my exercise program is this one simple truth: I hate my body.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Big Jay's Avatar
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    i personally use
    500ml milk
    35 grams whey
    55 grams ground oats
    70 grams ground pumpkin seeds

    comes out at rougly 1000 cals and 72 grams of protein

    theres ton of shake ideas on this site and u can even buy a blender and coffee grinder and try a few of your own recipies.

  12. #11
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    So does everyone on this board. But we all manage to stuff our faces.
    Runty,some peep's lives revolve around eating and training.. Also, some people love to eat. I'm sure there are also many of these people on this board. That's why I've asked for advice from people who have legitamately been in my shoes. But at the same time I do accept the point you're making



    I was thinking about adding nutella to shakes it's basically hazlenut and choc (like snickers paste ), no where near the protein/nutrition of PB, but a really wonder how concerned I need to be about optimum macronutrients in my current state..

    Carrying around food with me is not an option with my current job
    Last edited by Tempest; 04-28-2009 at 04:16 PM.

  13. #12
    Senior Member berfles's Avatar
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    Alrighty. Everyone here knows I hate eating and I hate food. I still get 6200 calories a day despite that fact, mainly because of my shakes. My post work out shake consists of 2 cups of milk, one scoop of ON whey, 1/2 cup of CarboGain, and 1/4 cup of vanilla ice cream. That is around 660 calories.

    Then my large shakes have 2 cups of milk, 3 tbsp natural peanut butter, 1 cup of vanilla ice cream, 1 scoop of ON whey, 1/2 cup of CarboGain, and 3 tbsp of heavy cream. That makes about 1600 calories.

    I generally have two of the PWO shakes a day, and at least one of the bigger ones. Sometimes I have two of them which helps my caloric needs a lot. Aside from that and my normal dinners (chicken, beef, pork, pasta, potatoes whatever) I eat one and a half cups of jasmine rice which is another 300 calories. I found a recipe online for granola that yields 280 calories for a half cup so I'll bring that with my to work to eat as a snack. You could try making two of my bigger shakes a day, those alone will put you at 3200 calories without even touching real food. Make one and put it in a thermos for lunch, then make another one a couple hours before bed. Doing that, you should be able to consume at least 5000 calories a day total.

    I'm not going to lie, I am obsessed with making sure I eat this stuff every day. Since I already hate eating I eat the same stuff daily and do pretty much revolve my life around it. Fact is, for me, that's what has to be done to gain any sort of weight. Every night I go to bed so full I almost throw up, and I've come very close a few times (to the point of standing over the sink drooling as I got ready to hurl). It's a rough thing to do, but I am so stubborn and determined that it's second nature now. Every day I think to myself "There's no way I can eat any more than this, if I can't gain I'm done and that's the end of it" but when it comes down to it, not gaining just pisses me off even more. It drives me to eat even more just to get back at my body. That may sound a bit dumb but it's how I do it, it's like me and my body are adversaries and I don't like when it beats me out.

    You just have to decide if you want it badly enough and make some effort to get it going. Once you do it for awhile the planning of meals gets easier and you know when to eat what, but it doesn't get easier to eat this much. Not for me at least.

    When it comes down to it, it's all determination and stubbornness. I can't even describe to you how much I loathe eating, but that doesn't compare to how determined I am to prove everyone wrong. My own doctor told me I wouldn’t weigh more than 160lbs until my late 20s after I asked why I couldn’t gain weight with 4000 calories. I believe what he told me was that it was “impossible”. The next day I started eating 5000, and when I stalled out, I upped it to 6000 and above. I am now 217lbs as of last week and look forward to going back to him to see what he says.



    I sort of rambled there so if you need anything else answered let me know. This is pretty much what I do every day in terms of eating.
    22 - 5'10@236lbs!
    Bench - 325 (old)
    Squat - 455x2 (old)
    Deadlift - 500(old)

    Total: 1280lbs 100% raw




    The key to my exercise program is this one simple truth: I hate my body.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Runty View Post
    So does everyone on this board. But we all manage to stuff our faces. I do and I'm probably one of the skinniest s.o.b.s on here. Some one posted a simple rule a while back about gaining. If you get hungry, you're losing the battle. The only meal I actually eat everyday due to hunger is breakfast, then I gotta stay full nonstop all day to gain.
    Have you tried working out in the AM?
    I seriously can't eat enough food to satiate my hunger on squat days.

  15. #14
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    Definitely track your calories!

  16. #15
    student of the game Runty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reko View Post
    Have you tried working out in the AM?
    I seriously can't eat enough food to satiate my hunger on squat days.
    I have. I always feel malnourished though, even if I eat first. Personally like to get 2 decent meals in before I hit the gym. I know what you mean about squat days though. I've drank a 1600cal shake and then ate a decent steak'n potato dinner right after a squat workout. And I'm small as ****.
    "Fine, if I'm not allowed to light it on fire, can my imaginary friend?"

  17. #16
    phil 4:13 Bako Lifter's Avatar
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    Bako shakes.

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by berfles View Post
    Alrighty. Everyone here knows I hate eating and I hate food. I still get 6200 calories a day despite that fact, mainly because of my shakes. My post work out shake consists of 2 cups of milk, one scoop of ON whey, 1/2 cup of CarboGain, and 1/4 cup of vanilla ice cream. That is around 660 calories.

    Then my large shakes have 2 cups of milk, 3 tbsp natural peanut butter, 1 cup of vanilla ice cream, 1 scoop of ON whey, 1/2 cup of CarboGain, and 3 tbsp of heavy cream. That makes about 1600 calories.

    I generally have two of the PWO shakes a day, and at least one of the bigger ones. Sometimes I have two of them which helps my caloric needs a lot. Aside from that and my normal dinners (chicken, beef, pork, pasta, potatoes whatever) I eat one and a half cups of jasmine rice which is another 300 calories. I found a recipe online for granola that yields 280 calories for a half cup so I'll bring that with my to work to eat as a snack. You could try making two of my bigger shakes a day, those alone will put you at 3200 calories without even touching real food. Make one and put it in a thermos for lunch, then make another one a couple hours before bed. Doing that, you should be able to consume at least 5000 calories a day total.

    I'm not going to lie, I am obsessed with making sure I eat this stuff every day. Since I already hate eating I eat the same stuff daily and do pretty much revolve my life around it. Fact is, for me, that's what has to be done to gain any sort of weight. Every night I go to bed so full I almost throw up, and I've come very close a few times (to the point of standing over the sink drooling as I got ready to hurl). It's a rough thing to do, but I am so stubborn and determined that it's second nature now. Every day I think to myself "There's no way I can eat any more than this, if I can't gain I'm done and that's the end of it" but when it comes down to it, not gaining just pisses me off even more. It drives me to eat even more just to get back at my body. That may sound a bit dumb but it's how I do it, it's like me and my body are adversaries and I don't like when it beats me out.

    You just have to decide if you want it badly enough and make some effort to get it going. Once you do it for awhile the planning of meals gets easier and you know when to eat what, but it doesn't get easier to eat this much. Not for me at least.

    When it comes down to it, it's all determination and stubbornness. I can't even describe to you how much I loathe eating, but that doesn't compare to how determined I am to prove everyone wrong. My own doctor told me I wouldn’t weigh more than 160lbs until my late 20s after I asked why I couldn’t gain weight with 4000 calories. I believe what he told me was that it was “impossible”. The next day I started eating 5000, and when I stalled out, I upped it to 6000 and above. I am now 217lbs as of last week and look forward to going back to him to see what he says.



    I sort of rambled there so if you need anything else answered let me know. This is pretty much what I do every day in terms of eating.

    Inspirational - in kind of a sick way!

    I was going to say that it gets easier, but after reading Berfles' post maybe not for some people.

    Eating the same thing everyday can really help. So if you find things that you like to eat and that are easy to make, then do it and eat them. That way you will build a habit and it will become easy to maintain.

    A couple of Rippetoe quotes:
    "And folks, for weight-gaining purposes, "eating clean" is not a useful concept. Big Macs are."

    "You guys that worry about eating clean are actually merely bodybuilders looking for justification for your obsession with abs. You cannot get big and strong on 3000 kcal/day. And you cannot eat 7000/day and eat perfectly "clean".

    How old are you?
    The further into your twenties you get, and the more time spent under the bar, the easier it will be to gain mass.

  19. #18
    Lifting junkie. AKMass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
    I am unable to PM as as I've just joined but I am interested in Berfles and any others' opinions who have been in the same shoes as me.

    I've been reading your posts and am really impressed with your progress. I see you are rather like me (in terms of your attitude towards food) so I thought I would ask for some advice.

    I have a seriously fast metab 130 lbs at almost 5ft 11, I have utterly no desire to be eating all today and I have a **** appetite. I need to get 4000-5000kcal to gain (better 5000kcals)

    The most success I've ver had is by driniing a gallon of whole milk on top of 2-3 meals (1000-1500kcals) but I gained a measly 10lbs after MONTHS of work, and all it takes is a holiday/ illness/ few heavy nights out drinking to knock me down to square one. This is frustrating to say the least.

    SOme people have advised my that I simply have to eat and shakes will not help. But I've always thought a kcal is a kcal. If you can get it from blended food if necessary what's the big deal?

    Moreover it would be so much work for me to eat the damned kcals needed to grow and because I lose weight so easily, my life would be extremely frustrating if it just revolved around eating all the time only to lose it after a a few days of inconsistent eating.

    I have seen the bako shake, but I don't like PB and I'm no sure how long I could stomach that thing.

    My training is not the problem, I train 2-3 x wk, alternateing SQ at DL, only compound exercise my lifts 1.5x BW

    Any advice would be much appreciated..
    If you think it's hard to gain weight at 130 lbs, wait until you gain 50 lbs. You'll look back and laugh. It only gets harder...The good news is, your stomach will expand, but it will still never be easy. Shakes however, will make it easiER.
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  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Runty View Post
    I have. I always feel malnourished though, even if I eat first. Personally like to get 2 decent meals in before I hit the gym. I know what you mean about squat days though. I've drank a 1600cal shake and then ate a decent steak'n potato dinner right after a squat workout. And I'm small as ****.
    I eat something real light and wash it down with some watered down gatorade and it seems to serve me pretty well. As long as i don't go to bed starving I generally have enough in me for at least my mian lifts. I can always go back and make up the accessory work later but I generally can't eat enough on those days.

    Have you tried some mixes nuts or fruits or somethign along those lines in the AM?
    Heck maybe even some potato chips or something might work lol. I know I've done that before!

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reko View Post
    Have you tried some mixes nuts or fruits or somethign along those lines in the AM?
    Do you like to eat nuts in the morning?

  22. #21
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    Berfles, thanks for your reply. I will probably have more questions for u as they arise. You really do look impressive. I don't want to get as big as u have but I can at least see it is possible, for domeone with an extremely fast metab/ doesnn't like eating/loses weight overnight

    I aim to get 3000 better 4000 kcals from shakes, that way I only have to eat 1000 worth.

    Drummer, I am 25 and my metabolism has yet to slow down. Maybe in my 40s I will be thankful of it but it has really been the bane of my lefe so far.

    AKmass- gaining 50 pounds would be an end point for me. I would be elated to weigh 75-80kgs and would try to mantain that weight if I ever git there.


    I was thinking about consuming a tub 400g Nutella/ day (2000kcals) in shakes. The carbs pretty much all sugar, so I worry about that, but I think it would taste a lot better then PB so I should be able to stick with it. maybe 1000kcals worth whole milk with that and 4 tbs olive oil (480kcal). What do peeps think?

    Bako- I wanna try your shake, but the rented flat I live in has a tiny freezer compartment, so I would not be able to store the icecream necessary to make this everyday. Just PB in the shake would probably taste vile (I don't like PB).

  23. #22
    Lifting junkie. AKMass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
    AKmass- gaining 50 pounds would be an end point for me. I would be elated to weigh 75-80kgs and would try to mantain that weight if I ever git there.


    I was thinking about consuming a tub 400g Nutella/ day (2000kcals) in shakes. The carbs pretty much all sugar, so I worry about that, but I think it would taste a lot better then PB so I should be able to stick with it. maybe 1000kcals worth whole milk with that and 4 tbs olive oil (480kcal). What do peeps think?
    First paragraph: Fair enough, but I think a lot of the guys on this board that weighed 130 lbs (or less) thought that too, and now they weigh 200+. It's exactly what I thought when I weighed 135. I'm up 40 lbs, and now I want to put on an extra 30-40 lbs. Maybe you'll be different, can't say for sure.

    Second paragraph: Let's compare 400g of PB and Nutella:
    Peanut butter- 2352 calories, 201.6g fat, 78.2g carbs, 100.4 g protein.
    Nutella- 2162 calories, 118.9g fat, 248.65g carbs, 21.62g protein.

    Here's my source for the Nutella info since it didn't show up on Fitday: http://www.thedailyplate.com/nutriti...s/food/nutella

    IMHO, Nutella is not a good substitute for Peanut Butter.
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  24. #23
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    Ok AK mass thanks for looking that up, I think you're right, it would be like eating 2000kcals of choc per day. I don't even have a sweet tooth!

    If I ever get to 75-80kgs, we'll have to talk again

    Tried blending up some peanut butter with milk and it is vile. I wonder if I am best of using maltodextrin or waxymaize starch in my shakes. Berfles's drink uses carbogain

    My only concern is that they have poor nutrient value and act like simple sugars anyway...


    What about:
    3x shakes/day consisting of:

    500mls whole milk (320kcal), 100g waxy maize starch (350kcal), 1 scoop protein (120kcal) 2 tbs olive oil (240kcal)

    Then eat 1000-1500kcals of as healthy and nutritious food as poss

    I think the main advantage of this would be that I could avoid using a blender and just use a shaker cup..
    Last edited by Tempest; 04-29-2009 at 11:42 AM.

  25. #24
    Lifting junkie. AKMass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berfles View Post
    Then my large shakes have 2 cups of milk, 3 tbsp natural peanut butter, 1 cup of vanilla ice cream, 1 scoop of ON whey, 1/2 cup of CarboGain, and 3 tbsp of heavy cream. That makes about 1600 calories.
    Alright so I tried one (two actually) of these shakes yesterday. They taste awesome, and it's hard to believe it's over 1000 cals. Goes down easy. However, I think you're a little off on your calorie calculation:
    2 cups milk- ~300 cals
    3 tbsp natty pb- ~300 cals
    1 cup ice cream- ~270 cals
    1 scoop ON whey- 130 cals
    1/2 cup carbo gain- 190 cals
    3 tbsp heavy cream- 150 cals

    So that put's us at a maximum of 1340 cals because I overestimated a little on the natty pb and milk. Hopefully I'm missing something because I'd love to get 3200 cals/day from a shake that tastes this good. Let me know.
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  26. #25
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    Drink 3 of 'em! :-)

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