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Thread: Nutrient Timing - When Science and Marketing Collide

  1. #1
    Soon to be lean... Joe Black's Avatar
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    Nutrient Timing - When Science and Marketing Collide

    Nutrient Timing - When Science and Marketing Collide by Daniel Roberts

    Do you go with 3 square meals or 8 smaller, more frequent meals? Should you be drinking a protein or carbohyrdate drink before training? After training? What to eat before you hit the sack?

    At times, it can just get downright confusing!

    Is there an optimal way to consume nutrients to maximise muscle and strength gains? Marketing hype would have you believe so, but perhaps it isn't quite as complex as many make it out to be... Could we be worrying just a little too much?

    -------------

    I also just wanted to say thanks to Daniel for a easy to read, straight forward article. It's his first one for WBB and hopefully we'll see more from him in the future!
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    Controlled mutation Trainwreck's Avatar
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    This is exactly what I was looking for; great article, very informative.
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    Senior Member cphafner's Avatar
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    While I found it interesting, I really think the author should have helped people with some guidance on macro's. He assumes that everyone knows what they need, but I imagine a lot of beginners would be reading this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cphafner View Post
    While I found it interesting, I really think the author should have helped people with some guidance on macro's. He assumes that everyone knows what they need, but I imagine a lot of beginners would be reading this.
    You make a valid point and I did consider integrating a method for determining macros, but it was difficult without becoming prescriptive. The overall message was of simplicity and given that determining macros is highly individualized I thought it might confuse novice readers to offer suggestions.

    Rather I suggest (in the article) working out your total, keeping protein within the range of 1-2g/lbs lean bodyweight and experimenting with fat and carb intake (to hit that total) based on individual response and activity. So in fact how to determine one of the three macros is already covered.

    Ultimately I wanted readers to take away from the article that outside of establishing and hitting your protein and calorie total each day, it didn't matter much how it was achieved.

    Thanks for the feedback.

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    Working it out, working it bamazav's Avatar
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    Great article! My life schedule makes the typical "lifting" eating plan difficult. While I would love to be able to eat six meals a day, I make sure I get three decent meals and work to fill the gaps. Some days it works, some days it doesn't. What I took from the article was that I do not have to be as stressed about this as long as I meet my macro and caloric goals. I am still experimenting with pre and post timing, but am pressing on. Again, thanks for a great article.
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    Senior Member cphafner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatBateman View Post
    You make a valid point and I did consider integrating a method for determining macros, but it was difficult without becoming prescriptive. The overall message was of simplicity and given that determining macros is highly individualized I thought it might confuse novice readers to offer suggestions.

    Rather I suggest (in the article) working out your total, keeping protein within the range of 1-2g/lbs lean bodyweight and experimenting with fat and carb intake (to hit that total) based on individual response and activity. So in fact how to determine one of the three macros is already covered.

    Ultimately I wanted readers to take away from the article that outside of establishing and hitting your protein and calorie total each day, it didn't matter much how it was achieved.

    Thanks for the feedback.
    I totally appreaciate your points. Like I said, I did find it an interesting read. Hopefully see more articles from you.
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  8. #8
    Tap, Rack, Bacon ncsuLuke's Avatar
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    great article, I would love to see more on the diet subject

    absolutely wonderful feature of the site

  9. #9
    Soon to be lean... Joe Black's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback guys, it really helps us work out what you guys like and don't.

    Definately want to release more nutritonal related articles in the near future!
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    Only happy when bulking radioheadhead's Avatar
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    great article, too many people make this WAY too complicated.
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    Good information in there. No offense to the author, but a lot of these articles just seem like advertisement for supplements to me, especially once we get down to the meal breakdown portion of the article.

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    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Meat View Post
    a lot of these articles just seem like advertisement for supplements to me,.
    At least they don't make a bunch of bogus claims like other sites. They are simply using supps as a food eplacement. Feel free to use real food.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Meat View Post
    Good information in there. No offense to the author, but a lot of these articles just seem like advertisement for supplements to me, especially once we get down to the meal breakdown portion of the article.
    Some taken! Not really, but of 2.500 words you focus on approx 50? I'm not in advertising but as ad copy goes, I'm pretty sure it fails.

    Those 50 were an illustration of how I eat. Hypothetical suggested diets were contrary to the spirit of the article - I did not want it to be presrcriptive.
    The article is about setting a total and hitting it, how and when is of secondary importance - that is the message.

    If it offends, simply replace the brand name to 'generic protein powder', but consider my position, other than stating what I use, what alternative did I have?
    Last edited by Daniel Roberts; 08-24-2009 at 07:43 AM.

  14. #14
    Soon to be lean... Joe Black's Avatar
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    I'll also make the same point I made in another article thread.

    Saying that the article is an advertisement when a very small portion of the article recommends some products is being a bit short sighted. In my opinion it's an informative, interesting read with a small portion of the article having some very relevant recommendations for supplements.
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  15. #15
    Best way 'round is through TobyzBigDay's Avatar
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    Dan (and Dan), thanks! I don't care how you slice your ads into the mix; a good article is just a good article. What enjoyed is that you always link to references (something that some of our fav mags are only now starting to do), and you each have a knack for taking the science and making it relative. One example, was theat you really don't need to sit there dropping BCAAs down your throat while sitting, muted, on a conference call...because those studies were done in relation to fasting states, and if you're gettin your tein, then you're gettin you BCAAs. No one has ever quite clarified that for me, thank you.

    Great article, got a lot more than that out of it.
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    Senior Member getfit's Avatar
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    great read and thank you
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    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
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    Great article. I am a big fan of nutrient timing. I have been using it for years. I have also started to follow Chris' advice on only eating 3-4 meals a day to reduce insulin spikes. It was nice to read in this article how some do 3 meals a day and some do 6 or more, and both are ok. It's been hard for me to change from the frequent feedings to less meals, but it works in my program much better.


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    Not to drag up something old, but manners cost nothing, so thank you vidizenzo, getfit and TobyzBigDay.

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    Senior Member Ruff Riff's Avatar
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    Great read, thank you for it!

  20. #20
    Softball hoe cant hit bombz's Avatar
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    as a fellow " unlucky " morning lifter and a real novice at this whole thing it was very informative to see that you split your PW servings and drink the other half during your workout. I'm going to try this. I was having a hard time chugging protein and PW shakes at 4:30 am

    Thank you very much!
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    Good information in there.
    I like it. I Hope, this site will futher develop in future.
    wishing you are successful and Good luck to you.

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    I am hoping you can offer some clarification on how exactly markeing and science colliding?
    Your meal breakdowns suggest that eating supps pre-workout and during workout is the best way to go.
    Marketing seems to suggest that the time to be consuming supps is post-workout.

    Is that one of the points you were trying to make? That we should be taking our protein/carb supps before and during the workouts rather than after?

    What about the fact that blood flow is diverted away from the GI system during exercise? With that fact in mind, how does eating during a workout help the nutrients of that meal get to the muscles? Or is there still sufficient blood flow to the GI (despite reduced blood flow) that digestion is still adequate?

    To wrap up, my question is two fold:
    1.) are you saying to supplement pre and during workout rather than after?
    2.) do you think that GI blood flow during exercise is still sufficient to promote proper digestion and absorption of nutrients?

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    I believe the conclusion answers all your questions. What I'm saying is this -

    How you split your food and when you take it comes a distant second to hitting your daily total. Because you’re human and you have a digestive system, there’ll nearly always be an overlap between what you ate hours ago and what you’re about to eat now. The good news is that our bodies take care of the sophisticated nutrient timing all by themselves.
    Which is a direct contradiction to what the marketing and advertising departments would like you to believe.

    If you want to be specific, the importance of food around training is simply to provide a supply of amino acids (in particular) to provide the raw materials for the protein synthesis stimulated by training.

    Simply put it is better to have them in the bloodstream ready for use than wait until after training, for most people that don't train first thing on an empty stomach this is already accomplished through a normal day's eating (provided they're hitting their target intake each day).
    If eating whole foods before training simply leave adequate time before your session, and this time is decreased if using liquid meals (supplements).
    If you read the article again you'll notice I mention digestion times and for the most part provided you haven't eaten christmas lunch just before stepping into the gym, GI distress and reduced bloodflow is not going to factor.
    Last edited by Daniel Roberts; 05-26-2010 at 04:57 AM.

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