The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Senior Member ZenFitness's Avatar
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    Starting Squats?

    I think I am going to try to use this smaller "squat" rack (not really a squat rack but it may be tall enough) at my gym to do squats. I've been squatting in the Smith Machine (as I mentioned in another thread) because there was no squat rack or the like.

    When I was in high school football, we did squats in squat cages and we went to parallel. In the Smith Machine, I try to go parallel - but, to be honest, they may have been partial squats. I know they were not deeper than parallel simply b/c I was under the impression that going deeper meant injury (and this opinion has since been rectified).

    My question is this, however... if I am going to be starting SS-style squats, how should I do this? I don't have a spotter, so I have to rely on myself in the mirror for form. I know the SS book refers to having a trainee squatting all the way down and then pressing the elbows against the knees to get the feeling of where the knees should be and where the bottom of the squat should be... am I supposed to go that low?

    Also, in the Smith Machine, I was doing 205 lbs. @ 12 reps for 3 sets, but they weren't all the way down past parallel. Can anyone suggestion perhaps a work load weight to target? I was planning on doing what SS recommends where I would start with an empty bar and move up as warmup sets.

    Any thoughts are appreciated. I looked at the Squat Rx vids but at least in the first few I'm not seeing anything about simple squat form.

    [EDIT]: also, this little mini-squat rack does have some tracks leading out of it. I'm inclined to squat above these at first provided I can get low enough simply b/c of the lack of a spotter... I assume this is ok?
    Last edited by ZenFitness; 07-16-2009 at 12:52 PM.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    You really have to just follow all the cues he gives you in the book so you know if you're doing them right. Practice, practice, practice!!!!! That's really the absolute best thing you can do. Start LIGHT. If you have to start with a mere 95 lbs., then so be it. Just get your form down, and add small amounts of weight every workout.

    Over time, you will start to FEEL what a correct squat is. You will feel the hamstrings being engaged properly, the low back being nice and tight, etc....

    Also Rippetoe has lots of videos on youtube to check out as well.
    How to Find Your Dream Job
    My personal blog/website dedicated to giving answers on the age old question - how to escape the "rat race". I now play guitar for a living!

  4. #3
    WBB's Juggernaut/Liason BigCorey75's Avatar
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    usually when i start people on learning how to squat i start out with a "goblet squat" or a front squat where you hold a dumbell, this teaches the person to keep their back flat, also i start out with good mornings and RDL to teach how to stick out their butt.

    do this for a while until there form looks good and solid, then ill ease them into barbell squats with the bar on their backs.

    the weight you would have to judge just make sure ur form is solid
    Why live if one can not Deadlift?- John Paul Sigmasson

    Accept that which is useful and reject what is not- Bruce Lee

    Reason and Logic trump religion- Me

    Restriction of education, Censorship of knowledge, and Proliferation of religion helps keep the masses tamed- Me

    "Money does not fix everything, Smart fixes everything"

  5. #4
    Senior Member ZenFitness's Avatar
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    BigCorey, would you use Good Mornings in a normal workout routine as well, or just for beginning?

  6. #5
    Working it out, working it bamazav's Avatar
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    Goblets helped me greatly. I think they helped me prepare to back squats. I also love good mornings, now that I know how to do them properly. Make use of them.
    Working on getting stronger in body, mind and soul.



    1Co 9:27 But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified

  7. #6
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    If you're doing SS, don't do GM's. They shouldn't be incorporated into your program until you are an intermediate according to Rip. SS has limited exercises for a reason.
    How to Find Your Dream Job
    My personal blog/website dedicated to giving answers on the age old question - how to escape the "rat race". I now play guitar for a living!

  8. #7
    WBB's Juggernaut/Liason BigCorey75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenFitness View Post
    BigCorey, would you use Good Mornings in a normal workout routine as well, or just for beginning?
    both, i use it as teaching, then we go into doing bar squats as a teaching progresses.

    but ill also keep them in to get getting the stronger
    Why live if one can not Deadlift?- John Paul Sigmasson

    Accept that which is useful and reject what is not- Bruce Lee

    Reason and Logic trump religion- Me

    Restriction of education, Censorship of knowledge, and Proliferation of religion helps keep the masses tamed- Me

    "Money does not fix everything, Smart fixes everything"

  9. #8
    WBB's Juggernaut/Liason BigCorey75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brihead301 View Post
    If you're doing SS, don't do GM's. They shouldn't be incorporated into your program until you are an intermediate according to Rip. SS has limited exercises for a reason.
    i was speaking merely from a teaching stand point of how to master the squat, SS is a good program btw, but he was asking how to learn how to squat and those are the methods ive used to teach clients how to do back squats with a barbell
    Why live if one can not Deadlift?- John Paul Sigmasson

    Accept that which is useful and reject what is not- Bruce Lee

    Reason and Logic trump religion- Me

    Restriction of education, Censorship of knowledge, and Proliferation of religion helps keep the masses tamed- Me

    "Money does not fix everything, Smart fixes everything"

  10. #9
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigCorey75 View Post
    i was speaking merely from a teaching stand point of how to master the squat, SS is a good program btw, but he was asking how to learn how to squat and those are the methods ive used to teach clients how to do back squats with a barbell
    I hear ya. I don't disagree with you at all. I was just pointing out the fact that if he plans on doing the SS program, he should probably just stick with the main 6 lifts and avoid adding any assistance work (which is what a lot of people do from my understanding). That's an easy way to stall quickly.

    But specifically for teaching purposes, I don't disagree with you at all.
    How to Find Your Dream Job
    My personal blog/website dedicated to giving answers on the age old question - how to escape the "rat race". I now play guitar for a living!

  11. #10
    Senior Member ZenFitness's Avatar
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    thx again all for the help

    would you throw pullups and dips into the "assistance" category? I was thinking of doing something like this:

    Workout A:
    Squat
    Bench
    Deadlift
    Pullups
    Woodchoppers

    Workout B:
    Squat
    Overhead Press
    Bent over rows (yes, deviating from the main workout... I did PC in high school all the time, but I'm fighting a space issue in my gym)
    Dips
    Planks

    Also, can military press be a sub for overhead press (i.e. seated vs. standing) or are the advantageous of overhead press that much better?

    [EDIT]: Actually, would power shrugs be a better choice than bent over rows?
    Last edited by ZenFitness; 07-16-2009 at 03:01 PM.

  12. #11
    Wannabebig Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenFitness View Post
    Bent over rows (yes, deviating from the main workout... I did PC in high school all the time, but I'm fighting a space issue in my gym)[EDIT]: Actually, would power shrugs be a better choice than bent over rows?
    Space Issue? Whats the issue? If you have room to deadlift, you have room for Power cleans. I wouldn't mess with the routine. I believe its been said that Rip said BO rows were a good sub for PCs but I think it has since been disproven. Also do the OHP. SS is very effective and no where near broken, so no need to fix it by changing things up.

  13. #12
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    Sorry for the hijack, but its sort of applies. Does M. Rippt, do clinics at all? I'm doing the workout but spend a tonne of time worrying about my form and there are NO big guys at my guy (its downtown gym for suits, but its what works with my schedule). I'd feel a lot more comfortable have someone I know knows their **** having given me advice, an after reading on here about the issues with personal trainers I'm concern with just using one of them.
    Cheers

  14. #13
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    Film yourself. Sometimes it's the only way.

  15. #14
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenFitness View Post
    thx again all for the help

    would you throw pullups and dips into the "assistance" category? I was thinking of doing something like this:

    Workout A:
    Squat
    Bench
    Deadlift
    Pullups
    Woodchoppers

    Workout B:
    Squat
    Overhead Press
    Bent over rows (yes, deviating from the main workout... I did PC in high school all the time, but I'm fighting a space issue in my gym)
    Dips
    Planks

    Also, can military press be a sub for overhead press (i.e. seated vs. standing) or are the advantageous of overhead press that much better?

    [EDIT]: Actually, would power shrugs be a better choice than bent over rows?
    Those are actually the assistance lifts he recommends. A lot of people try to do the program, and add all kinds of extra s*** to it, which is not the intention of the workout.

    For the OH presses - standing barbell presses all the way. Sitting doesn't utilize the core like standing does.
    How to Find Your Dream Job
    My personal blog/website dedicated to giving answers on the age old question - how to escape the "rat race". I now play guitar for a living!

  16. #15
    My own personal trainer dumbbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knowsam View Post
    Sorry for the hijack, but its sort of applies. Does M. Rippt, do clinics at all? I'm doing the workout but spend a tonne of time worrying about my form and there are NO big guys at my guy (its downtown gym for suits, but its what works with my schedule). I'd feel a lot more comfortable have someone I know knows their **** having given me advice, an after reading on here about the issues with personal trainers I'm concern with just using one of them.
    Cheers
    If you already own the book, then buy the DVD. I loaded the power clean portion of it onto my ipod and would watch the clips for reference in the gym.
    Jason

    It is currently a fad, at this writing, for boys to think they need a "six pack", although most of them don't have an ice chest to put it in.
    -Mark Rippetoe

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