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Thread: Muscle building program which has worked great for me, but??

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    Muscle building program which has worked great for me, but??

    hey.. James here.. Lil about me- I'm a hardgainer standing at 6'2 who started at about 135 lbs... I remember for the longest time it seemed almost as if my body refused to allow me to gain much if any muscle mass whatsoever.. I probably spent about 4-5 months of frivelous weight training every other day trying to build muscle to pretty much no avail.. Eventually I came across the muscle building program at .. buildmuscle.pcti-system.com .. which I'm sure many of you also have and had similar success as I've had with it. After being on the program for a little while now I've finally seen massive progress and am currently at 165 lbs .. added 30 lbs of muscle in a relatively short amount of time. But my question is, as I'm sure many of you who are doing Vince's program know.. he doesn't exactly endorse any muscle building supplements and believes they are basically useless and way over-hyped. Now, although I've already had massive success with his program and trust his advice.. I find it hard to believe that there isn't ANY effective supplement out there which can promote significant muscle gain. I know first hand that most are bogus and give fraudulent claims.. but I know there has to be SOMETHING out there which really works. Am I wrong in this assumption? Have any of you experienced significant added results with the help of a muscle growth promoting supplement?? Any advice / comments / suggestions would be much appreciated.. and I'm not interested in any narcotic steroids either.. thanks!
    Last edited by Jamesxx187; 07-22-2009 at 07:02 PM.

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    WBB's Juggernaut/Liason BigCorey75's Avatar
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    First off Steroids are not narcotic.....lol

    Second im not familiar with his program , but if he reccomends alot of single joint exercises, its crap, if your not doing deadlifts its crap, and if your not squatting its crap, and if ur doing leg press, just run away and try Starting Strength posted on here by Rippetoe. But if your program has all of those in it then keep on keeping on


    Second, hes right, if you can get the proper amounts of food, then you really wouldn't need many supplements at all. to me the Best supps out there are a basic Protein Powder. Think of Protein Powder as food in a can you can mix up and drink incase you cant get a meal in, but if u can get a meal always choose the meal over the shake. 2nd would be creatine, it helps the body with power and force output to lift more weight, and the more weight you lift, the bigger you get.

    Now there are a host of other supps out there that are practically not worth your money so stick to the basics, and dont get pulled in by fancy wrapping and outrageous claims.

    Basic protein powders, this site sells a popular one Nitrean, if ur afraid to buy online if you go into a store ask for Gold Standard whey by optimum nutrition.
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    thanks.. and yeah, it does include those things.. but i still can't imagine that all supplements generally are a bunch of worthless crap. Lol thats too big of a conspiracy.. either SOMETHING works, or the general public is a bunch of mindless consuming fools. The latter of which probably wouldn't be surprising though if thats the case.

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    nice endorsement haha. You should just get a good protein powder, a lot of people here reccomend nitrean by atlargenutrition personally i couldn't get any because it costed too much in shipping to Australia haha.

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    DeaTH BeFoRe WeaKNeSs sCaRz*Of*PaiN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesxx187 View Post
    thanks.. and yeah, it does include those things.. but i still can't imagine that all supplements generally are a bunch of worthless crap. Lol thats too big of a conspiracy.. either SOMETHING works, or the general public is a bunch of mindless consuming fools. The latter of which probably wouldn't be surprising though if thats the case.
    They are... they're ignorant... and it's not illegal for supplement companies to make outrageous claims. Business has nothing to do with morals in the supplement industry. And generally, most supplements are not regulated by the FDA as supps are considered food. There IS a conspiracy... and you need to open your eyes to see things as they are. MuscleTech is the perfect example of a company making utterly stupid claims.
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    Mr. Big Adam-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sCaRz*Of*PaiN View Post
    They are... they're ignorant... and it's not illegal for supplement companies to make outrageous claims. Business has nothing to do with morals in the supplement industry. And generally, most supplements are not regulated by the FDA as supps are considered food. There IS a conspiracy... and you need to open your eyes to see things as they are. MuscleTech is the perfect example of a company making utterly stupid claims.
    I hate MuscleTech products. Probably why I hate Jay Cutler too
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesxx187 View Post
    thanks.. and yeah, it does include those things.. but i still can't imagine that all supplements generally are a bunch of worthless crap. Lol thats too big of a conspiracy.. either SOMETHING works, or the general public is a bunch of mindless consuming fools. The latter of which probably wouldn't be surprising though if thats the case.

    Im a Business Marketing major and take this from me as well, the true beauty of a America is that statement.

    The real brilliance of America is the genius of our Marketing combined with the stupidity of our people.


    don't get sucked into false claims, go the realms of science and proven and tried facts which is heavy weight, low reps, many sets, and great tension

    it has never failed in building muscle on anyone
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    You know, the more I talk to people the more convinced I am that the supplements really are worthless and that we really have turned into a bunch of ill-informed mindless consumers, hate to say. Mr. Edward Bernays really did a number on us..lol
    Last edited by Jamesxx187; 07-22-2009 at 09:38 PM.

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    FDA used to regulate supplements more strictly prior to 94. New laws in 94 shifted the burden of proof of a supplements safety and efficacy to the manufacturer of that supplement. this allowed supplement companies to make all sorts of crazy claims, as long as the infamous little disclaimer is there on the label, since FDA doesn't bother to test the products.

    I've tried tons of supplements, but the only ones I have ever felt the need for are multi vitamins, a good whey protein, basic creatine powder, and sometimes a caffeine pill or drink to help with energy levels.

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    Let's not demonize all supplements here, gentlemen.

    Generally speaking supplements have two main uses. 1. To get extra protein in when your regular meal is low. And 2. Convenience.

    To expand on this. For some people it can be difficult to take in enough protein in solid form during the day. This can be for a number of reasons. Some people have small appetites, some people are extremely busy, some people can't tolerate meat, some people are vegetarians/vegans, some people are SHW lifters... For these people a good protein power makes sense as it can help top off their protein needs for the day.

    Also it's very convenient as there is not a lot of preparation time as opposed to cooking food, eating, it and then washing up.

    If you fall into any of the above groups, a decent protein power is probably a good idea. Not all supplements are worthless though many are...you just have to do your research.

    As for me, the only supplements I take are multis...but then again I've never had a problem with taking in enough protein in whole foods...which reminds me...it's almost dinner time.

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    find companies that sell bulk supplements

    man I wish ALN sold bulk nitrean

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    Quote Originally Posted by Songsangnim View Post
    Let's not demonize all supplements here, gentlemen.
    I agree. Personally I don't think the FDA should be regulating supplements.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesxx187 View Post
    Eventually I came across the muscle building program at .. buildmuscle.pcti-system.com .. which I'm sure many of you also have and had similar success as I've had with it.
    Never heard of it, and don't care to. I'm happy with my training routine, thank you very much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesxx187 View Post
    I find it hard to believe that there isn't ANY effective supplement out there which can promote significant muscle gain. (snip) but I know there has to be SOMETHING out there which really works. Have any of you experienced significant added results with the help of a muscle growth promoting supplement??
    Nothing *works* if your training is not right, so IMHO that's the most important thing to get right before you think about any supplements.

    If you've got your training right, then I can see taking some supplements like a good multi-vitamin, protein shakes if you need to, possibly fish oil, etc. IMHO, things like that *work* in that if your training is right, they help give your body optimum conditions for building muscle and getting stronger. There are no legal magic pills like some supplement companies want you to believe by their all there hype and steroid taking models.

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    Quote Originally Posted by samadhi_smiles View Post
    find companies that sell bulk supplements

    man I wish ALN sold bulk nitrean
    20lbs kegs would be nice...

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    Out of curiosity, what does a week long routine look like with the current program you're on?

    Zach

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigTallOx View Post
    I agree. Personally I don't think the FDA should be regulating supplements.
    May I ask why you dont think FDA shuld regulate supplements? You have to have some form of regulation. Besides, FDA takes a more passive role with supplements now, and there are many individuals who think there is too LITTLE regulation on supplements.

    Ever since the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 (DSHEA), the FDA has taken a more passive role in regards to dietary supplements. This law puts supplements into a class of their own, outside of food additives and drugs. Companies who wish to introduce a new food additive or drug must conduct years of scientific testing that cost a ton of money to prove their product's safety. Supplement companies do not have to go through this rigorous process, they bypass it.

    This means that any small company with limited resources can introduce a new supplement onto the market with very little background research on the products safety. With limited resources usually comes limited quality control. I could theoretically put as much cancerous agents, or harmful substances as I want to in the product (FDA does not screen products to ensure ingredient labels are accurate). FDA doesnt care as long as the product is labeled correctly and has the proper disclaimers.

    In fact, the only time the FDA gets involved is if there is a sudden claim by the public against these supplements that suggest they are harmful. If that is the case then the FDA will conduct testing on the product to prove its unsafe.

    Complete lack of regulation of a type of product that is ingested is a scary thought.
    Last edited by Cmanuel; 07-23-2009 at 12:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam-7 View Post
    I hate MuscleTech products. Probably why I hate Jay Cutler too
    Do you hate kroc too?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmanuel View Post
    May I ask why you dont think FDA shuld regulate supplements? You have to have some form of regulation. Besides, FDA takes a more passive role with supplements now, and there are many individuals who think there is too LITTLE regulation on supplements.
    why not let the individual regulate what drugs they decide to consume?

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    Quote Originally Posted by samadhi_smiles View Post
    why not let the individual regulate what drugs they decide to consume?
    Um??

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    Quote Originally Posted by samadhi_smiles View Post
    why not let the individual regulate what drugs they decide to consume?

    Because that's not what our society wants to happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by samadhi_smiles View Post
    why not let the individual regulate what drugs they decide to consume?
    Because they will kill themselves. It has happened before in the supplement industry, it will sure enough happen again. I will say that it happens more often in the drug industry, but at least we have an idea of what a safe amount is and what isn't- the effects are clearly outlined. If you're going to OD on advil, you know you're going to OD because the safe amount is right there on the bottle, and there is double blind, independently verified research out there to support it. With most supplements out there, you're rolling the dice. You have no idea what the short term or long term side effects there are, and what research there IS out there about what you're taking is probably shaky (paid for, carried out, and verified by the supplement industry).

    Furthermore, the average guy walking into GNC doesn't have access to the research behind whatever drugs he is buying (if there is any), and he probably wouldn't have the means to understand it even if he did have access. The FDA exists so you don't have to go out there and read the research on whatever you're taking (even though its probably a good idea). drug companies have to meet guidelines, and the research behind their drugs is the "gold standard" of science - independently verified, double blind. I'm not saying its perfect, but I don't like the thought process that is currenlty going on: prove to us the supplement is killing someone or hurting people before we go out and investigate it.

    You know what, I could go into way more detail about this, but why not just point you to a youtube clip that should explain everything: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfTnVCh0dKE

    Its a dirty industry, and yes most of the stuff out there is garbage. Some sort of protein, creatine, and fish oil caps are the best supplements out there (Probably in that order too). there are loads of research out there (and anecdotal evidence) supporting their safety and effectiveness. More importantly, they're cheap too. Creatine is one of the cheapest and most effective supplements out there.

    Not every supplement company out there is slimy either - I've actually been pretty impressed by At large nutrition, the amount of quality control they put into their products, and the research they use to back them up. Pretty much everything they have here is really high quality versions of stuff we know that already works - RESULTS, for instance, is creatine, beta alanine, and sugar for taste/absorption. There is plenty of research out there for these supplements and we know they work (especially in conjunction). THey're not coming out with some wonder drug every other month with god knows what in it.

    But seriously, you know whats the best supplement out there? Food. There is not a single supplement that you cannot get at least in some amount from food. I've actually made better progress when I wasn't taking any supplements, because I was always very conscious that I wasn't getting in enough protein, so I would eat a lot more. Calories are probably the best supplement for someone in your situation out there.
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