The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
Latest Article

The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Its no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
More Recent Articles
Contrast Training for Size
By: Lee Boyce
An Interview with Marianne Kane of Girls Gone Strong
By: Jordan Syatt
What Supplements Should I be Taking? By: Jay Wainwright
Bench Like a Girl By: Julia Ladewski
Some Thoughts on Building a Big Pull By: Christopher Mason

Facebook Join Facebook Group       Twitter Follow on Twitter       rss Subscribe via RSS
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 34

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    MN
    Posts
    116

    powerlifting form for bench vs. common gym technique question

    i recently watched a video about powerlifting form with the tight back and pressure on the lats so u can put up more weight and it clearly is the way to go for puttin weight on the bench but if im training not to put weight on my bench but just to train my chest and arms, is this the way to bench? because i feel like the full range of motion with a flat (instead of curved) back would be better for training. (btw i posted a vid recently and found out my benching form sucks and i cant wait to get to the gym and try out this new form)

  2.    Support Wannabebig and use AtLarge Nutrition Supplements!


  3. #2
    Senior Member Future's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    w/ Tami
    Posts
    166
    Its all goal based. Elbows out works the chest more.

  4. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    2,486
    Elbows tucked is safer for your shoulders. If you really want to hit your chest, then do something besides bench with your elbows out. Do flies with dumbbells or something like that.
    www.wildirongym.com
    Become a fan of Wild Iron on Facebook:
    http://tinyurl.com/WildIron

  5. #4
    Senior Member Future's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    w/ Tami
    Posts
    166
    Ive discussed this idea with some people. What really makes flat bench any worse for the shoulders than other chest pressing exercises?

    When someone asks "how much do you lift?" they are referring to? The flat bench. It seems that just more people do it so more people get hurt. I dont agree that the ball and socket is any safer with dumbells or a different angle.

  6. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    1,677
    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    What really makes flat bench any worse for the shoulders than other chest pressing exercises?
    For the shoulders, flat bench is safer than incline bench, decline is safer than flat bench. Tucking is safer for the shoulders than not tucking. That's why powerlifters arch and tuck their elbows when do flat benching, it's safer and stronger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    I dont agree that the ball and socket is any safer with dumbells or a different angle.
    Dumbbells are not safer, IMHO.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Future's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    w/ Tami
    Posts
    166
    I do think dumbells can be pretty dangerous...they get away if not use to it.

    The arch and tuck styles were more developed for just lifting more. The arch makes the stroke shorter BUT can be very hard on the spine. The tuck tends to be more for shirted benchers while giving some push with the lats more so. I dont know that its safer though.

  8. #7
    Senior Member mattdunkin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Conroe, Texas
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    I do think dumbells can be pretty dangerous...they get away if not use to it.

    The arch and tuck styles were more developed for just lifting more. The arch makes the stroke shorter BUT can be very hard on the spine. The tuck tends to be more for shirted benchers while giving some push with the lats more so. I dont know that its safer though.
    Regardless of wether the person is benching for the purpose of strength or size,tucking of the elbows and a bit lower groove causes much less shoulder rotation and therefore less of a negative stress on the shoulders.For someone who has been training for a fair amount of time,dumbells shouldn't be a problem or dangerous to use for benching.One thing you have to remember is that ANY movement can be a so-called "dangerous" movement and in all reality an exercise done for higher reps at a lighter weight is far more dangerous than a max-effort lift in that there is more time under tension and as the set progresses the form tends to break down leading to a higher propensity for injury.I started bodybuilding 22 years ago,personal training 16 years ago,and switched to powerlifting after a long injury-induced layoff in 2006 so let's just say I have a fair amount of in the gym experience and one thing that drives me crazy is the state of general "fitness" and personal training these days-you see people teaching people to bench totally wrong and to address the issue of shouler health have them stop their benches short even saying this causes more stimulation of the pectoral muscles,when in fact if someone is solely looking to build bigger pecs there are far better movements out there to do so than just barbell benching.Sorry to go off and this was not directed at anyone on this board but I work in a commercial "gym" and see this **** daily,this whole pussification of America thing just really gets to me at times-at least the gyms used to be a safe-haven from it,now they promote it.
    Last edited by mattdunkin; 08-10-2009 at 06:39 AM.
    "Headed down the highway, sign has three inverted 9's"

    Seeking sponsorship through ResMed

  9. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    mn
    Posts
    287
    dont do flys

  10. #9
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Westside Barbell, OH
    Posts
    8,920
    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    The arch and tuck styles were more developed for just lifting more. The arch makes the stroke shorter BUT can be very hard on the spine. The tuck tends to be more for shirted benchers while giving some push with the lats more so. I dont know that its safer though.
    Arching is not harder on the spine. You're more likely to get a lower back injury with the way that most people bench, flat backed and their hips moving all over the place. Arching tightens up your core and makes you much more stable when done correctly.

    Tucking (as pointed out above) really lowers the amount of shoulder rotation during the lift and takes a ton of stress off your shoulders.

    Yes it does indeed help you lift more, but doesn't good form normally do this?


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

    Superior Athletics - Northeast Ohio's Center for Athlete Training
    *Westside Barbell Certified Gym

  11. #10
    Senior Member SELK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,946
    Without a bench shirt you don't want to tuck to much. I found that after wearing my shirt for the better part of a training cycle I tried to touch my raw benches to low and was weak on them.
    960/530/749 @ 242
    903/524/738 @ 220

  12. #11
    Senior Member Future's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    w/ Tami
    Posts
    166
    Yeah that was a common issue for me with Westside. I was following information based on that style as my pecs were too weak.

  13. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    MN
    Posts
    116
    is tucking your elbows where the elbows are very close to your body?

  14. #13
    Moving on up backseatwitme13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    373
    Quote Originally Posted by WyztaTrjnsFtbll View Post
    is tucking your elbows where the elbows are very close to your body?
    yes.
    stats:Bench: 285 goal: 305
    squat: 390 goal: 420
    dead: 405 goal: 445
    weight and height: 230, 6'2 age:18
    No strength within, no respect without.
    "Strength is not your physical capacity, its your indomitable will." http://freddy56.mybrute.com

  15. #14
    GFH Lones Green's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    6,863
    Quote Originally Posted by WyztaTrjnsFtbll View Post
    i recently watched a video about powerlifting form with the tight back and pressure on the lats so u can put up more weight and it clearly is the way to go for puttin weight on the bench but if im training not to put weight on my bench but just to train my chest and arms, is this the way to bench? because i feel like the full range of motion with a flat (instead of curved) back would be better for training. (btw i posted a vid recently and found out my benching form sucks and i cant wait to get to the gym and try out this new form)
    This is the way to go to move more weight, no doubt
    23 years old
    6'3, 308 lbs

    825 Squat
    470 Bench
    645 Deadlift
    1905 total
    www.atlargenutrition.com

  16. #15
    big on TONING dynamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Cockeysville, MD
    Posts
    1,219
    I do everything raw, I don't even own/use a belt and I arch and tuck when I bench. I definitely get alot of pec stimulation too, from my own experience, tucking is fantastic. I see alot of guys at my gym lifting with flared elbows and they're also only lifting a third of what I lift. I don't have a huge arch either I just don't like how it feels, but I get a small arch enough to keep my body tight and then of course I lift the weight. arch and tuck ftw!
    My journal
    Goal(Current):
    400(335) Bench Press
    600(520x3 2xBW) Dead Lift
    500(495x1) ATG Squat
    Total: 1500(1350)
    365 Front Squat
    consistency and intensity.

  17. #16
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Palmyra, PA
    Posts
    5,730
    I tend to think about this in more simple terms. Use the form which allows you to safely lift the most weight and your arms, chest, and the rest of the involved muscles will grow if you are progressively getting stronger and eating enough to support growth.

  18. #17
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    18
    Correct me if I am wrong but tucking elbows would result in a narrower grip. I was to the assumption that a wideish grip was a good thing.

  19. #18
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Westside Barbell, OH
    Posts
    8,920
    Quote Originally Posted by gymbo View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong but tucking elbows would result in a narrower grip. I was to the assumption that a wideish grip was a good thing.
    No, you don't need to bring your grip in to tuck your elbows


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

    Superior Athletics - Northeast Ohio's Center for Athlete Training
    *Westside Barbell Certified Gym

  20. #19
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    San Juan, Puerto Rico
    Posts
    46
    If you were trying to work out the chest and arms specifically, I wouldn't do a bench press unless it would be to gain more strength in the upper body and overall size. I think to target the chest and arms, weighted dips, weighted pushups and dumbbell benches would be more beneficial. Comparing the bench to an exercise for the chest is like comparing the deadlift for your lower back or the squat for your quads. My 0.02.

  21. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    451
    Take it from someone with shoulder problems, If I don't tuck it will be painful or cause a flair up, and yes arching preserves the natural curvature of your spine and keeps your core tight and strong.

  22. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    737
    Funny how noone has mentioned the increased risk of pectoral tendon strain with the elbows out vs tucking.
    Finally ELITE @ SHW..

    Single ply: 931 squat, 760 bench, 530 deadlift and 2180 total
    Multi ply: 960 squat, 770 bench, 550 deadlift and 2250 total.

    The next stop: PRO total.

    HOO's Gym: building the strongest gym in the South, one plate at a time.

  23. #22
    Da Bears slashkills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Joliet, IL
    Posts
    2,749
    How far in do you tuck? when the bar is near my chest my arms are at about a 45degree angle from my body.

  24. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    703
    Quote Originally Posted by slashkills View Post
    How far in do you tuck? when the bar is near my chest my arms are at about a 45degree angle from my body.
    Thats about what I do... Think, 8 o'clock & 4 o'clock positions.(raw)

    I tuck more w/ a shirt though, in order to touch.

    RC

  25. #24
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    0
    im stoopid but if the guy benches 405 not tucked shouldnt he just leave it be?dont fix it aint broke, as long as his rotators are good....?the more i read the more my form changes and gets out of whack, i only bench 300s but seems better if i just pinch my blades and arch very little.....raw=less tuck and higher on chest..right?

  26. #25
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Westside Barbell, OH
    Posts
    8,920
    Quote Originally Posted by cheesedips View Post
    im stoopid but if the guy benches 405 not tucked shouldnt he just leave it be?dont fix it aint broke, as long as his rotators are good....?the more i read the more my form changes and gets out of whack, i only bench 300s but seems better if i just pinch my blades and arch very little.....raw=less tuck and higher on chest..right?
    Because if he benches 405 with poor form, when he benches with proper form he'll bench more.

    Because if he has poor form, when he benches like that for a longer period of time he's going to eventually ruin his shoulders.

    Just because something doesn't hurt now doesn't mean it'll always be that way.


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

    Superior Athletics - Northeast Ohio's Center for Athlete Training
    *Westside Barbell Certified Gym

Similar Threads

  1. Question on PL Bench Form vs. Others
    By jed in forum Powerlifting and Strength Training
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-14-2007, 08:30 PM
  2. deadlift form / back question
    By timlovesrugby in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-12-2007, 01:02 PM
  3. 10 Commandments To Big Muscle..
    By MonStar in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 09-09-2002, 01:01 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •