The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
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    Full Body Workouts?

    Hey Guys,

    I was wondering what "Full Body" lifts or workouts you guys have found effective to raise your mettabolic rate and build good muscle? Obviously squats and bench are good, but do you guys have any more suggestions?? My goal is to loose about another 2-4% body fat so i can see my abs and more define my other muscles...

    Thanks!

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  3. #2
    WBB's Juggernaut/Liason BigCorey75's Avatar
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    Deadlifts
    power cleans
    clean and jerks
    snatch
    dumbbell swing
    dumbbell snatch
    thrusters
    high pulls
    snatch grip high pulls
    sumo dead lifts
    snatch grip deadlifts

    just to name a few "total body" exercise.

    but the main rules to devise a full body routine is three rules, 1 each workout do a squat variation, deadlift variation, a push, a pull, and core exercise. 2. never load the spine in consecutive workouts, meaning if you do squats and deadlifts one workout do lunges and hypers next to save the spine. 3 never do the same exercises within consecutive workouts or in the same week.



    Also research "Complexes" they are great for burning fat also interval training and hybrid exercises, those are great for burning flab
    Last edited by BigCorey75; 07-29-2009 at 09:02 PM.
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  4. #3
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Search for the old York courses or Peary Rader's foundation routine.
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  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djkosir View Post
    Hey Guys,

    I was wondering what "Full Body" lifts or workouts you guys have found effective to raise your mettabolic rate and build good muscle? Obviously squats and bench are good, but do you guys have any more suggestions?? My goal is to loose about another 2-4% body fat so i can see my abs and more define my other muscles...

    Thanks!
    To lose bodyfat, eat less. No routine will work if you are eating too much.

    That said here's my version of a "Full Body" workout.

    Monday:

    Bench press, Bent Row


    Wednesday:

    Squat, Crunch


    Friday:

    Deadlift, Dip.

    Five sets of each. First exercise is done in the 4-6 rep range, the second in the 8-10. The exception here would be squats which you do for 8-10 reps. Every so often drop the five sets of squats and just do 1 set of 20 with your ten rep max. Do this for 4-6 weeks and then go back to your five set routine.

  6. #5
    Wannabebig Member tennisrox4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songsangnim View Post
    To lose bodyfat, eat less. No routine will work if you are eating too much.

    That said here's my version of a "Full Body" workout.

    Monday:

    Bench press, Bent Row


    Wednesday:

    Squat, Crunch


    Friday:

    Deadlift, Dip.

    Five sets of each. First exercise is done in the 4-6 rep range, the second in the 8-10. The exception here would be squats which you do for 8-10 reps. Every so often drop the five sets of squats and just do 1 set of 20 with your ten rep max. Do this for 4-6 weeks and then go back to your five set routine.

    Doesn't full body mean your working your whole body in each workout, not the whole body over a week?
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  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by tennisrox4 View Post
    Doesn't full body mean your working your whole body in each workout, not the whole body over a week?
    Not necessarily. Deadlifts and squats are pretty much full body exercises in terms of the effect they have, and training your whole body with different exercises each workout can be hard on the shoulders/rotator cuffs as they are hit every workout.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 08-02-2009 at 06:46 PM.

  8. #7
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songsangnim View Post
    To lose bodyfat, eat less. No routine will work if you are eating too much.

    That said here's my version of a "Full Body" workout.

    Monday:

    Bench press, Bent Row


    Wednesday:

    Squat, Crunch


    Friday:

    Deadlift, Dip.

    Five sets of each. First exercise is done in the 4-6 rep range, the second in the 8-10. The exception here would be squats which you do for 8-10 reps. Every so often drop the five sets of squats and just do 1 set of 20 with your ten rep max. Do this for 4-6 weeks and then go back to your five set routine.
    Same weight in those 5 sets or do you work up to your heaviest weight in the 5th set?

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by joey54 View Post
    Same weight in those 5 sets or do you work up to your heaviest weight in the 5th set?
    The first is done with the same weight, the second I work up to it.

    This is done for two reasons. With the first exercise I am fresh and able to push harder as opposed to the second exercise. The first exercises are thus ideally suited to strength exercises, while the second can be used for hypertrophy (assuming of course that one's goals are strength and size)
    So due to fatigue when I begin the second exercise, I do a lighter weight, one I know I can handle for 8-10 reps and go from there. Plus working in low reps all the time increases the risk of injury which brings me to my second point.


    Safety and performance are also a concern. If I made all exercises with a 4-6 rep range, I'd run an unacceptable risk of injury/failure. Ten sets all at a weight you can only do 4-6 reps with? Maybe if I had 2-3 hours per session in the gym. But even five sets can be a struggle with any time constraints.

    Squats are the exception because crunches are not a particularly demanding exercise and also if one only does 5 rep sets...it's going to be tougher working up to 20 reps as opposed to 10 rep sets. Plus one has to apply trial and error to find his "ten rep max" if he only does 5 rep sets.

  10. #9
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songsangnim View Post
    The first is done with the same weight, the second I work up to it.

    This is done for two reasons. With the first exercise I am fresh and able to push harder as opposed to the second exercise. The first exercises are thus ideally suited to strength exercises, while the second can be used for hypertrophy (assuming of course that one's goals are strength and size)
    So due to fatigue when I begin the second exercise, I do a lighter weight, one I know I can handle for 8-10 reps and go from there. Plus working in low reps all the time increases the risk of injury which brings me to my second point.


    Safety and performance are also a concern. If I made all exercises with a 4-6 rep range, I'd run an unacceptable risk of injury/failure. Ten sets all at a weight you can only do 4-6 reps with? Maybe if I had 2-3 hours per session in the gym. But even five sets can be a struggle with any time constraints.

    Squats are the exception because crunches are not a particularly demanding exercise and also if one only does 5 rep sets...it's going to be tougher working up to 20 reps as opposed to 10 rep sets. Plus one has to apply trial and error to find his "ten rep max" if he only does 5 rep sets.
    And how do you progress from week to week? Add 5 lbs to the exercise? Go from doing say 500 lbs with squats for 6, 6, 5, 5, 4 to 6, 6, 6, 5,5 or something like that? How much weight would you say you put on these exercises in a given year? Do you employ deload techniques in your training? When doing the 20 rep squats, do you up the weight 10 lbs each week or something like that?

    I know that is a lot of questions, but you often give the best advice here on the board. I am just interested in how your training goes and think it may benefit others to learn more about it.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Gymjunkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songsangnim View Post
    To lose bodyfat, eat less. No routine will work if you are eating too much.

    That said here's my version of a "Full Body" workout.

    Monday:

    Bench press, Bent Row


    Wednesday:

    Squat, Crunch


    Friday:

    Deadlift, Dip.

    Five sets of each. First exercise is done in the 4-6 rep range, the second in the 8-10. The exception here would be squats which you do for 8-10 reps. Every so often drop the five sets of squats and just do 1 set of 20 with your ten rep max. Do this for 4-6 weeks and then go back to your five set routine.
    Very simple and interesting workout routine. I'd probably die having to do only 2 exercises and be out of the gym fast, but it's good for rest and recovery.
    I'd really say that Monday workout is not TBT, just upped body day. Throw in lunges, then I'd say it's TBT.. I think that TBT means you do one exercise for the biggest groups of muscles (back, chest, legs), then you can also throw in some abs and accessory exercises. Now, no offense meant here, you post good advice Songsangnim. I might be wrong!

    BTW, do you do this workout now or you were doing it sometime earlier?
    Lifts:

    Bench Press 60kg 5x5
    Squats 77,5 kg 5x5
    Deads 112,5kg 5x5
    BB Rows 80kg 5x5
    Overhead Pr. 40kg 5x5

    My training journal:
    http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=125238

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gymjunkie View Post
    Very simple and interesting workout routine. I'd probably die having to do only 2 exercises and be out of the gym fast, but it's good for rest and recovery.
    I'd really say that Monday workout is not TBT, just upped body day. Throw in lunges, then I'd say it's TBT.. I think that TBT means you do one exercise for the biggest groups of muscles (back, chest, legs), then you can also throw in some abs and accessory exercises. Now, no offense meant here, you post good advice Songsangnim. I might be wrong!

    BTW, do you do this workout now or you were doing it sometime earlier?
    Technically speaking you are correct about the Monday workout...however a hard upper body workout does have an effect on the entire body. I just set it up like that in order to hit everything twice and give the RC's and knees a break...I suppose you could throw in lunges if you wanted to.

    I was doing it earlier...rehabbing now from a sprained wrist...non-lifting related.

    Oh and Mr. joey54, I did write a reply to your post above...but it ended up being so long that my computer timed out and wouldn't let me post it. So I'll post it on another newer computer later and see if that works...if not I may have to post the first half then add the second half as an edit or something.

  13. #12
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    It's a nice routine...but not a full body routine.
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  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    It's a nice routine...but not a full body routine.
    Think movements not bodyparts.

    Look past the trees to see the forest. It's there, I promise.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 08-04-2009 at 12:34 AM.

  15. #14
    Senior Member Gymjunkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songsangnim View Post
    Technically speaking you are correct about the Monday workout...however a hard upper body workout does have an effect on the entire body. I just set it up like that in order to hit everything twice and give the RC's and knees a break...I suppose you could throw in lunges if you wanted to.

    I was doing it earlier...rehabbing now from a sprained wrist...non-lifting related.

    Oh and Mr. joey54, I did write a reply to your post above...but it ended up being so long that my computer timed out and wouldn't let me post it. So I'll post it on another newer computer later and see if that works...if not I may have to post the first half then add the second half as an edit or something.
    I see. Either way it's a good workout because it has compounds only, not sissy machines.
    Lifts:

    Bench Press 60kg 5x5
    Squats 77,5 kg 5x5
    Deads 112,5kg 5x5
    BB Rows 80kg 5x5
    Overhead Pr. 40kg 5x5

    My training journal:
    http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=125238

  16. #15
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    I figured you would put a good amount into a reply. It will probably be sticky worthy.

  17. #16
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    2nd try...(edited for time)


    I first started lifting back in '89...I was a skinny teen...et cetera. Anyway just to give a bit of background.

    Given that I've been at this game so long, progression is more of a monthly issue. Sometimes adding 5 lbs to an exercise is just a tad too difficult so I micro-load. (For those new people who may not know the term, micro-loading refers to increasing the weights by very small increments, sometimes smaller than can be found in a standard gym). In my case I bought some 1.25 lb plates from an on-line site. These are magnetic and can be stuck on the bar or on one of the bigger plates on the end of the bar. If you can do 300 lbs for five reps, then you should be able to do 302.5 lbs for five reps...whereas if you tried 305 you might only get four sometimes. This allows you to get used to heavier weights even if only slightly and allows for more gradual progression. When working with top weights, even five pounds (usually the smallest amount that can be added to a barbell in a commercial gym) can be a bit of a jump, depending on the exercise.

    Also some sites/shops sell even smaller plates (1 lb and below) so if an increase of 2.5 lbs is too much you can go even lighter. As far as I am concerned it doesn't matter how light the increase is...only that there is an increase (good form, as always, is paramount and assumed here)

    As for weight put on these exercises, currently my plans are to hold the bench and squat steady and focus all my efforts for improvement on the deadlift. (Right now I'm rehabbing from a sprained wrist...non gym incident). This is just a personal thing/goal with me Once I've got to where I'm going I'll probably start seeing what I can do with the bench and squat. As for the deadlift, I added 25 lbs to my previous PB using this same program over the last year or so. If that sounds small consider how long I've been at this and consider that after 20 years or thereabouts...I'm probably very close to my genetic potential.

    This brings me to my next point/question asked about deloading. As we all know, no matter how dedicated one is, they just can't go all out every time, year in and year out. Eventually it will catch up with you. That said, I don't really plan my deload times...I go more by feel. And during those times I also pay extra attention to what I'm eating and how much I'm sleeping...two very important components of this lifestyle and two that I think most people don't pay enough attention to, due to focusing on the lifting part.

    So I'll back off and just cruise for a while and when I feel ready again, I"ll work back up to my previous weights. And if I've done everything right I should set some PR's (even if just by a couple of pounds). Of course that doesn't happen every time, but enough to assure me that I'm on the right track.

    As for the twenty rep squats, I usually end up micro-loading for those. So ten lbs a week is a bit much. If I get ten lbs over the entire period that's good enough for me. However I do feel that for beginners and intermediates, 10 lbs a week is definitely an achievable goal.

    Still quite a long post, but at least it focuses on the points I was making.

    Anyway I hope that clears up some things.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 08-04-2009 at 04:58 AM.

  18. #17
    Joey54's crazy partner DumbbellTosser's Avatar
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    When I think of 'full body routine' I think of hitting every major muscle group in one session using any of the movements below:

    Major compound movements per 'push, pull, and overall thigh groups'
    Example would be: bench press, row, leg press in one session.

    or

    Full body movements utilizing 'most' of the body's major muscle groups.
    Example would be clean and press, deadlift in one session.

    or

    Combination exercises (combining one major compound with another major compound or even combining a compound with a isolation movement).
    Example would be squat + overhead press, lunge plus curl in one session.


    But still we have to think of the overall purpous of doing a 'full body routine' in the first place. I do them off and on throughout the year for shock value. It's also a great way to increase your body's natural GH levels to get ready for a more traditional strength or hypertrophy routine immediately following a week or two of 'full body'. So what I sometimes do is two weeks of full body routines (2 - 3 sessions per week max though or it's too taxing on the body).
    It's like I'm a juicer... but I'm not.

  19. #18
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songsangnim View Post
    2nd try...(edited for time)


    I first started lifting back in '89...I was a skinny teen...et cetera. Anyway just to give a bit of background.

    Given that I've been at this game so long, progression is more of a monthly issue. Sometimes adding 5 lbs to an exercise is just a tad too difficult so I micro-load. (For those new people who may not know the term, micro-loading refers to increasing the weights by very small increments, sometimes smaller than can be found in a standard gym). In my case I bought some 1.25 lb plates from an on-line site. These are magnetic and can be stuck on the bar or on one of the bigger plates on the end of the bar. If you can do 300 lbs for five reps, then you should be able to do 302.5 lbs for five reps...whereas if you tried 305 you might only get four sometimes. This allows you to get used to heavier weights even if only slightly and allows for more gradual progression. When working with top weights, even five pounds (usually the smallest amount that can be added to a barbell in a commercial gym) can be a bit of a jump, depending on the exercise.

    Also some sites/shops sell even smaller plates (1 lb and below) so if an increase of 2.5 lbs is too much you can go even lighter. As far as I am concerned it doesn't matter how light the increase is...only that there is an increase (good form, as always, is paramount and assumed here)

    As for weight put on these exercises, currently my plans are to hold the bench and squat steady and focus all my efforts for improvement on the deadlift. (Right now I'm rehabbing from a sprained wrist...non gym incident). This is just a personal thing/goal with me Once I've got to where I'm going I'll probably start seeing what I can do with the bench and squat. As for the deadlift, I added 25 lbs to my previous PB using this same program over the last year or so. If that sounds small consider how long I've been at this and consider that after 20 years or thereabouts...I'm probably very close to my genetic potential.

    This brings me to my next point/question asked about deloading. As we all know, no matter how dedicated one is, they just can't go all out every time, year in and year out. Eventually it will catch up with you. That said, I don't really plan my deload times...I go more by feel. And during those times I also pay extra attention to what I'm eating and how much I'm sleeping...two very important components of this lifestyle and two that I think most people don't pay enough attention to, due to focusing on the lifting part.

    So I'll back off and just cruise for a while and when I feel ready again, I"ll work back up to my previous weights. And if I've done everything right I should set some PR's (even if just by a couple of pounds). Of course that doesn't happen every time, but enough to assure me that I'm on the right track.

    As for the twenty rep squats, I usually end up micro-loading for those. So ten lbs a week is a bit much. If I get ten lbs over the entire period that's good enough for me. However I do feel that for beginners and intermediates, 10 lbs a week is definitely an achievable goal.

    Still quite a long post, but at least it focuses on the points I was making.

    Anyway I hope that clears up some things.
    That makes sense. How close do you get to your 1 rep max during your working sets, 80-85%? With the 20 rep squats closer to 65-70%? Just estimates, I know you don't plan to do a specific number. And it does get tougher as the years go by to progress, no matter what program you do, I understand that. If you miss your rep range, say you get 3 reps on your 4th and 5th set, something like that, do you add another set of say 2 reps like Big Corey75 stated in another thread he does?

  20. #19
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    I think of the bench press as a full body movement if you are able to get your legs and back invovled properly.

  21. #20
    Senior Member Meat_Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joey54 View Post
    I think of the bench press as a full body movement if you are able to get your legs and back invovled properly.
    I rarely disagree with you, but I have to here. I could understand bent over rows being called a full body movement, but in the bench press the back and legs do not move the bar, with the exception of the traps which mainly act as stabilizers anyway. Yes a strong arch helps, big lats and a strong back helps, and yes you have to keep your entire body tight, but bench pressing will NOT build a strong back and lower body, thus I don't think it is accurate to call it a full body movement.
    Squat...Eat...Sleep...Grow...Repeat

  22. #21
    Senior Member Meat_Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songsangnim View Post
    Monday:

    Bench press, Bent Row


    Wednesday:

    Squat, Crunch


    Friday:

    Deadlift, Dip.

    Five sets of each. First exercise is done in the 4-6 rep range, the second in the 8-10. The exception here would be squats which you do for 8-10 reps. Every so often drop the five sets of squats and just do 1 set of 20 with your ten rep max. Do this for 4-6 weeks and then go back to your five set routine.
    No offense intended, but I don't think this is a great total body routine.

    First, frequency - working an exercise once a week is rarely enough for someone who wants to make significant strength gains in that movement. For hypertrophy purposes it is decent, as your pushing and pulling muscles and legs are getting worked at least twice a week. Still, I'd opt for a heavy lower body exercise(squats, deadlifts), a heavy pulling exercise, and a heavy pushing exercise in every workout, something like this:

    Monday:
    Squats - 3-5x5
    Bench press - 3x4-8
    Bent over rows - 3x4-8


    Wednesday:
    Deadlifts/lunges - 3-5x5
    Standing overhead press - 3x4-8
    Weighted pullups - 3x4-8


    Friday:
    Squats - 3-5x5
    Bench press - 3x4-8
    Bent over rows - 3x4-8


    Then start on the next Monday again with the deadlift workout and keep alternating. For a more advanced lifter alternating intensity on the exercises would likely be better, but full body routines are more effective for beginners/intermediates anyway.

    Each movement is hit twice a week, each workout hits your legs, back, and pecs/delts/tris, and those workouts are not too intense or long for anyone. Of course, this is just one of a million ways to do full body workouts...
    Last edited by Meat_Head; 08-04-2009 at 06:33 PM.
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  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by xMeat_Headx View Post
    I rarely disagree with you, but I have to here. I could understand bent over rows being called a full body movement, but in the bench press the back and legs do not move the bar, with the exception of the traps which mainly act as stabilizers anyway. Yes a strong arch helps, big lats and a strong back helps, and yes you have to keep your entire body tight, but bench pressing will NOT build a strong back and lower body, thus I don't think it is accurate to call it a full body movement.
    Right, just as squatting alone won't build a strong chest, but it is a full body movement. The entire body is involved in both lifts. That is what I was getting at. I see your points as well.

  24. #23
    Senior Member Meat_Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joey54 View Post
    Right, just as squatting alone won't build a strong chest, but it is a full body movement. The entire body is involved in both lifts. That is what I was getting at.
    Very true, very true. Point taken!
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  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by xMeat_Headx View Post
    No offense intended, but I don't think this is a great total body routine.

    First, frequency - working an exercise once a week is rarely enough for someone who wants to make significant strength gains in that movement. For hypertrophy purposes it is decent, as your pushing and pulling muscles and legs are getting worked at least twice a week. Still, I'd opt for a heavy lower body exercise(squats, deadlifts), a heavy pulling exercise, and a heavy pushing exercise in every workout, something like this:

    Monday:
    Squats - 3-5x5
    Bench press - 3x4-8
    Bent over rows - 3x4-8


    Wednesday:
    Deadlifts/lunges - 3-5x5
    Standing overhead press - 3x4-8
    Weighted pullups - 3x4-8


    Friday:
    Squats - 3-5x5
    Bench press - 3x4-8
    Bent over rows - 3x4-8


    Then start on the next Monday again with the deadlift workout and keep alternating. For a more advanced lifter alternating intensity on the exercises would likely be better, but full body routines are more effective for beginners/intermediates anyway.

    Each movement is hit twice a week, each workout hits your legs, back, and pecs/delts/tris, and those workouts are not too intense or long for anyone. Of course, this is just one of a million ways to do full body workouts...

    For someone with no shoulder/knee issues...that could possibly make sense. But that is not the case with me. Moreover my training is structured around movements not bodyparts. And my routine calls for a 20 rep squat several times throughout the year...you're not going to be able to squat/deadlift twice a week during those intervals.

    Plus I did say this was my variation, I don't see where I recommended it for anybody else. Squatting and deadlifting twice a week, just doesn't work for me as well as this routine. I designed this for my unique needs, not as a cookie-cutter one type fits all routine. That was what the OP asked for.

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by joey54 View Post
    That makes sense. How close do you get to your 1 rep max during your working sets, 80-85%? With the 20 rep squats closer to 65-70%? Just estimates, I know you don't plan to do a specific number. And it does get tougher as the years go by to progress, no matter what program you do, I understand that. If you miss your rep range, say you get 3 reps on your 4th and 5th set, something like that, do you add another set of say 2 reps like Big Corey75 stated in another thread he does?

    For most first exercises it's fairly close to those percentages above... I'd say around 75-80%. However the 20 rep squats aren't based off a 1 rep max since I haven't done a 1 rep max squat in years. I base them off the 10 rep max and work towards 100%.

    If I miss my rep range I perform a gut check. If I missed my range because I was 'holding back' (for some reason) I'll do another set or two until I've hit my target. If on the other hand I was giving my all and I'm truly exhausted...then I call it a day. No sense in trying to hit targets in that state. That's when injuries happen.

    I know that some people, upon reading the above paragraph might feel like saying "Song, man...suck it up and do another set!" Well, yes back in the day I had that same mindset...which is why I'm now stuck with less then 100% knees, shoulders and ankles. So to any younger people with healthy joints...don't be stupid like me and hurt yourself. I was relatively lucky...I'm still able to train heavy...though not as heavy as I'd like in some exercises. You might not be.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 08-09-2009 at 07:59 PM.

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