The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #76
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    yep, I read the entire HCT12 thing last night, nutrition, faq, the science behind it all, everything. I was up 2 hours longer than I should have been.

    As far as the amount of cardio, I completely understand as an instructor, the use of generalities. I have to use them all the time.

    so the 2800 kcal I need, I can figure the protein and fat from the article, but let's say it takes 60 mins to lift, then 30 mins cardio, is the cardio going to hamper the muscle gain?

    2800 is only 500 more than my BMR, well what they "calculated" it at anyways.

    I guess I don't want to overwork and not have enough for recovery, but I still want to shed this body fat and gain muscle.

    I guess the biggest thing is: how do you know when you are overtraining on cardio? How do I figure out how much cardio I need?

  2. #77
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    If you like doing that much cardio then do it, it won't hamper your progress provided your diet is in order. If you'd rather reduce the cardio you can do that too, it will be your diet that determines fat loss.

    You have approximately 3x as much fat to lose as muscle to gain, so the influence of cardio on muscle gain will be minimal, just get your diet consistent and monitor it accordingly and you'll achieve your goal.

    I wouldn't worry about overtraining on cardio, do what you enjoy/feel best doing and let the weight training and diet determine the outcome.

  3. #78
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    Ok, Dan I think I am up for this challenge. If you say that a 2800 kcal diet focused on 200 to 400 grams of protein a day, enough of the proper fats and then enough carbs to make up the rest, no cardio, but doing the HCT 12 hard, I believe you.

    I am pretty sure I will be home for at least a month so I can focus on this. I will be posting a journal in the proper forum, and I think I have found good exercises for me and my current situation with my back and hip.

    The dead lift is my only concern, I don't know if my workout area has an olympic bar.

    Thanks again Dan. I think this may be the turning point I needed in my life. I will keep you informed.

    Now i just need to figure out how to get 400 grams of protein a day.

  4. #79
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    Hey Dan
    I have a question (okay a few questions. I have a goal in place and a work out regimen in place too. I'm 5 9 weighing 163. BF calcs online put me at 20% bf with a BMR of 1767 and 2739 Maintenance cals . I want to weigh 180 at 8% bf. So using your formula I should consume 2880 cals/day Which is fine and I can figure out all the macros and all but One question is won't I get fatter getting to that weight instead of getting to 8%? Could I really get to that goal in 6 months? At 20% bf should I lose more bf before trying this? I'm just trying to find the best method for acheiving my goals.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by goalieman82 View Post
    Hey Dan
    I have a question (okay a few questions. I have a goal in place and a work out regimen in place too. I'm 5 9 weighing 163. BF calcs online put me at 20% bf with a BMR of 1767 and 2739 Maintenance cals . I want to weigh 180 at 8% bf. So using your formula I should consume 2880 cals/day Which is fine and I can figure out all the macros and all but One question is won't I get fatter getting to that weight instead of getting to 8%? Could I really get to that goal in 6 months? At 20% bf should I lose more bf before trying this? I'm just trying to find the best method for acheiving my goals.
    Hi. The formulas are educated guesswork and as you can see, your online calcs and my simple formula come out very close, in real terms they may as well be identical (accurately keeping within 150kcal every day is an impossibility - unless you weigh absolutely every item of food you eat and even then most food stuffs are given an approximate calorie value based on the values of some standard food).
    The only real way to determine whether your true maintenance is the same as your calculated is a historic food diary i.e. log and calculate what you've eaten over the last few weeks (sites like fitday make this easier).



    Bit of a ramble but it sets the scene. Anyway the point is you're going to have to monitor whether you gain or lose weight on that intake - no-one can accurately predict which it'll be.
    I assume you're a beginner. In which case you're in the enviable position of likely being able to put on muscle and lose fat at the same time.

    However, currently you have 130lbs of lean body mass. Your proposed goal would have you at 166lbs of lbm.

    36lbs of muscle whilst losing approx 20lbs of bodyfat.

    That's a lofty goal in a short time frame.

    I'd shoot for the same starting weight of 170lbs (an increase of approx 14lbs of lbm) in 6-12 months and from there to your final goal of 180lbs over the next 12 months.

    That's not to say that as a beginner you won't hit those goals a lot sooner, but be prepared for a longer haul.

    So redo your maintenance calories for this new target bodyweight, eat at that maintenance and train hard, and re-evaluate after 4 weeks and get back to me.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Roberts View Post
    Hi. The formulas are educated guesswork and as you can see, your online calcs and my simple formula come out very close, in real terms they may as well be identical (accurately keeping within 150kcal every day is an impossibility - unless you weigh absolutely every item of food you eat and even then most food stuffs are given an approximate calorie value based on the values of some standard food).
    The only real way to determine whether your true maintenance is the same as your calculated is a historic food diary i.e. log and calculate what you've eaten over the last few weeks (sites like fitday make this easier).



    Bit of a ramble but it sets the scene. Anyway the point is you're going to have to monitor whether you gain or lose weight on that intake - no-one can accurately predict which it'll be.
    I assume you're a beginner. In which case you're in the enviable position of likely being able to put on muscle and lose fat at the same time.

    However, currently you have 130lbs of lean body mass. Your proposed goal would have you at 166lbs of lbm.

    36lbs of muscle whilst losing approx 20lbs of bodyfat.

    That's a lofty goal in a short time frame.

    I'd shoot for the same starting weight of 170lbs (an increase of approx 14lbs of lbm) in 6-12 months and from there to your final goal of 180lbs over the next 12 months.

    That's not to say that as a beginner you won't hit those goals a lot sooner, but be prepared for a longer haul.

    So redo your maintenance calories for this new target bodyweight, eat at that maintenance and train hard, and re-evaluate after 4 weeks and get back to me.
    Thanks for the help Dan. I'll be in touch.

  7. #82
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    4 Week Follow up

    Hey Dan
    Well It's been 4 weeks of my workouts and I'm seeing some improvements in strength and maybe 3lbs of musle. I can't really tell if I look bigger though but I gained 3lbs with no bf change so I'm just guessing. Could that just be muscle density (if there is such a thing)? It would be nice to gain a pound a week but I don't think I'll be able to keep that up forever after the noob gains quit. I've been eating more cals than the formula says but that's because I'm playing in goal for hockey 5 hrs a week. Sticking with the 2600 wasn't working. Feeling fatiqued, really sore and my game was getting pretty ugly. I'm right around 3k Cals and I think it's helped. It's a crap load of work to play that much and still work out 3 days a week, but I'm doing it.

  8. #83
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    Good stuff and thanks for the update. You're right it is a 'crap load' of additional work and you needed to (and did) compensate for this by increasing calories - this eating business is easy once you get the basics covered, being consistent is the difficult part.
    You're getting stronger which is a great sign that either you are bigger or are going to get bigger, so just keep at it and adjust as you go along.

    If you have a specific question go for it, but you're on the right path.

  9. #84
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    Sorry to bring back this thread but I am in a similar dilemma (but an ectomorph!)

    So I weighed myself this morning and came in at 150.8 lbs. My height is 5'9". My body fat caliper should be arriving today, but I'm guessing that I'm somewhere between 15-17% body fat. I want to get down to 8-10% body fat so abs, etc are visible and body is defined.

    I realize that by doing so I will obviously also lose weight, probably have to go down to about 145 lbs. My ultimate goal is to be about 155-160 lbs with 8-10% body fat.

    I was lifting prior to these past few months. I wasn't lifting that heavily though - I started with a split routine targeting one muscle group a day then switched to Starting Strength program for about a month. At my peak, I weighed about 158 lbs and was only benching about 145-150 lbs. I was also pretty fat because I was eating A LOT of carbs, protein and fats, basically whatever the hell I wanted, so my body fat % was probably 25-30%.

    I decided to recently start P90X and a new, clean nutrition plan to cut that fat because my belly was getting big and I've now dropped to about 150 lbs. Lost muscle obviously but also lost most of my belly. I'm 24. I wouldn't mind gaining slowly, there is no rush. 1 lb a week would be more than enough.

    Do I lift heavy now and increase caloric intake to gain about 1 lb/week until I am at around 160 lbs? How much weight will I have to lose though to get to 8% body fat - I don't want to just end up where I started...that's my fear. Don't want to be 150-155 lbs and have 15-20% body fat after gaining 10 lbs.

    I understand the article would say "eat like a 157lb person with 8% body fat", however if I did that wouldn't I just gain fat? Is there a certain way I should be eating? Right now, I'm taking in about 1900-2000 calories daily at a 40/40/20 protein/carb/fat ratio.

    Like I said, I want to keep my body fat % down as much as possible...

    Thanks for any/all help!
    Last edited by originalbadman; 11-15-2010 at 11:03 AM.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by originalbadman View Post
    Sorry to bring back this thread but I am in a similar dilemma (but an ectomorph!)

    So I weighed myself this morning and came in at 150.8 lbs. My height is 5'9". My body fat caliper should be arriving today, but I'm guessing that I'm somewhere between 15-17% body fat. I want to get down to 8-10% body fat so abs, etc are visible and body is defined.

    I realize that by doing so I will obviously also lose weight, probably have to go down to about 145 lbs. My ultimate goal is to be about 155-160 lbs with 8-10% body fat.

    I was lifting prior to these past few months. I wasn't lifting that heavily though - I started with a split routine targeting one muscle group a day then switched to Starting Strength program for about a month. At my peak, I weighed about 158 lbs and was only benching about 145-150 lbs. I was also pretty fat because I was eating A LOT of carbs, protein and fats, basically whatever the hell I wanted, so my body fat % was probably 25-30%.

    I decided to recently start P90X and a new, clean nutrition plan to cut that fat because my belly was getting big and I've now dropped to about 150 lbs. Lost muscle obviously but also lost most of my belly. I'm 24. I wouldn't mind gaining slowly, there is no rush. 1 lb a week would be more than enough.

    Do I lift heavy now and increase caloric intake to gain about 1 lb/week until I am at around 160 lbs? How much weight will I have to lose though to get to 8% body fat - I don't want to just end up where I started...that's my fear. Don't want to be 150-155 lbs and have 15-20% body fat after gaining 10 lbs.

    I understand the article would say "eat like a 157lb person with 8% body fat", however if I did that wouldn't I just gain fat? Is there a certain way I should be eating? Right now, I'm taking in about 1900-2000 calories daily at a 40/40/20 protein/carb/fat ratio.

    Like I said, I want to keep my body fat % down as much as possible...

    Thanks for any/all help!
    It would kind of go like this:

    Gain in LBM + Fat
    Gain in LBM at the expense of fat
    Thermodynamic equilibrium of muscle and fat.

    This is a long approach.

    But for what you said above, you'd need to lose way more than 5lbs to get your desired bf%.

    Lets assume you're at 150 even and we will go in the middle of 16% bf. Lets also assume you want to hit 8% bf.

    150 lbs - 16% bf = 129 lbs LBM

    Using the formula:
    Target body weight = current fat-free mass / (1 - % desired body fat)

    Target body weight = 129 lb / (1 - .08)
    Target body weight = 129 lb / .92
    Target body weight = 140.2
    150 - 140.2 = 9.8 or about a 10 lb fat loss.

    With Daniel's method, you are in a sense, gaining LBM first with the calculations, and then reducing body fat as metabolic changes occur. That is, your maintenance level will change because of increased LBM. Therefore, LBM would be increased further but at the expense of body fat. In the end, you'd maximize LBM potential and you would hit an equilibrium. Your target body weight / bf%.

    The other method is to gain weight at a faster rate and shoot for a heavier weight than your goal. At this point, you'd begin to lose weight and body fat, trying to hit your goal weight and bf%. But more than likely, you'd need many cycles. That is, you may have to lose more weight than your target body weight is in order to get to the level of body fat desired. At this point, you'd need to gain again, and work back to a cut once more. After many cycles, you'd eventually get there.

    Daniels method is a more simple approach. You pick your target weight and eat accordingly. Biology takes care of the rest. It's hard to say which method works the best. People often think one way is faster than the other, but in reality, they might be about the same of some individuals. It's not likely someone will nail their target weight on their first bulk / cut cycle attempt.
    First Bulk pics VS Starting pics, take a look!! http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=1#post1616109

    Progress pics of a cut using bodyweight only movements http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...45#post2405745

    Generally, if you read a piece of advice on the internet, assume it's wrong until proven otherwise. This applies especially to "conventional wisdom". -Belial

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    It would kind of go like this:

    Gain in LBM + Fat
    Gain in LBM at the expense of fat
    Thermodynamic equilibrium of muscle and fat.

    This is a long approach.

    But for what you said above, you'd need to lose way more than 5lbs to get your desired bf%.

    Lets assume you're at 150 even and we will go in the middle of 16% bf. Lets also assume you want to hit 8% bf.

    150 lbs - 16% bf = 129 lbs LBM

    Using the formula:
    Target body weight = current fat-free mass / (1 - % desired body fat)

    Target body weight = 129 lb / (1 - .08)
    Target body weight = 129 lb / .92
    Target body weight = 140.2
    150 - 140.2 = 9.8 or about a 10 lb fat loss.

    With Daniel's method, you are in a sense, gaining LBM first with the calculations, and then reducing body fat as metabolic changes occur. That is, your maintenance level will change because of increased LBM. Therefore, LBM would be increased further but at the expense of body fat. In the end, you'd maximize LBM potential and you would hit an equilibrium. Your target body weight / bf%.

    The other method is to gain weight at a faster rate and shoot for a heavier weight than your goal. At this point, you'd begin to lose weight and body fat, trying to hit your goal weight and bf%. But more than likely, you'd need many cycles. That is, you may have to lose more weight than your target body weight is in order to get to the level of body fat desired. At this point, you'd need to gain again, and work back to a cut once more. After many cycles, you'd eventually get there.

    Daniels method is a more simple approach. You pick your target weight and eat accordingly. Biology takes care of the rest. It's hard to say which method works the best. People often think one way is faster than the other, but in reality, they might be about the same of some individuals. It's not likely someone will nail their target weight on their first bulk / cut cycle attempt.
    Thanks for the response.

    So, you are saying that while Daniel's method may work (me eating at a maintenance level for a 155 lb man with 8-9% body fat), it may essentially take as much time and effort as someone bulking to 165-170 then cutting?

    What about a cut then slow bulk? I was thinking of possibly cutting down to 10-12% body fat (probably end up like you said - around 140 lbs) then do a clean bulk slowly (goal of gain .5-1 lb a week), this may help keep the body fat % down to a relative minimum, no?

    For example:

    1) Diet down to 10-12%. Aim for 1-1.5lb a week lost, high protein, -500 deficit, etc.

    2) After reached this goal take 2 weeks to eat at maintenance to normalize everything hormonally (thyroid, leptin, etc.) before switching to a mass gaining phase. Aim for at least 100g/day of carbs during this as well.

    3) Up calories slightly so gaining 0.5-1lb a week. At a rate of 1lb a week, hopefully half will be muscle, half will be fat. Continue until reach 15% bodyfat.

    4) Eat at maintenance two weeks, bring cardio in (if necessary)

    5) Repeat
    Last edited by originalbadman; 11-16-2010 at 11:49 AM.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by originalbadman View Post
    Thanks for the response.

    So, you are saying that while Daniel's method may work (me eating at a maintenance level for a 155 lb man with 8-9% body fat), it may essentially take as much time and effort as someone bulking to 165-170 then cutting?

    What about a cut then slow bulk? I was thinking of possibly cutting down to 10-12% body fat (probably end up like you said - around 140 lbs) then do a clean bulk slowly (goal of gain .5-1 lb a week), this may help keep the body fat % down to a relative minimum, no?

    For example:

    1) Diet down to 10-12%. Aim for 1-1.5lb a week lost, high protein, -500 deficit, etc.

    2) After reached this goal take 2 weeks to eat at maintenance to normalize everything hormonally (thyroid, leptin, etc.) before switching to a mass gaining phase. Aim for at least 100g/day of carbs during this as well.

    3) Up calories slightly so gaining 0.5-1lb a week. At a rate of 1lb a week, hopefully half will be muscle, half will be fat. Continue until reach 15% bodyfat.

    4) Eat at maintenance two weeks, bring cardio in (if necessary)

    5) Repeat
    In terms of the achieving your final goal, bulking/cutting may take just as long as Daniels method. Both work. One is just easier to manage than the other. Like I said, bulking and cutting is trial by error and it takes many many cycles to accurately hit your end result goal.

    If you decide to cut first and then bulk up slowly, that would also work. After a period of maintenance, your body would be in a better state to shutting energy towards muscle over fat. How significant this is is up for debate. But keep in mind, 1 lb per week isn't exactly "slow". That's 4 lbs a month. Unless you're just starting out, I'd guess half of that would be fat. Truth be told, if you over eat, you're going to put some fat on with the muscle. It's just that, instead of gaining like 4 lbs per week, you gain 1.

    The method you numbered above sounds a lot like information presented in Lyle McDonald's articles and I can say it will work. If you want to do it that way, you will see results.

    However, daniel's method also works. And for people who are unclear where they want to over shoot for bulks, and weights to cut down to for losing fat, it may be better.

    So after reviewing your posts, it is my opinion that you follow the method you feel best with. Both work. I have done both myself.
    First Bulk pics VS Starting pics, take a look!! http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=1#post1616109

    Progress pics of a cut using bodyweight only movements http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...45#post2405745

    Generally, if you read a piece of advice on the internet, assume it's wrong until proven otherwise. This applies especially to "conventional wisdom". -Belial

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    In terms of the achieving your final goal, bulking/cutting may take just as long as Daniels method. Both work. One is just easier to manage than the other. Like I said, bulking and cutting is trial by error and it takes many many cycles to accurately hit your end result goal.

    If you decide to cut first and then bulk up slowly, that would also work. After a period of maintenance, your body would be in a better state to shutting energy towards muscle over fat. How significant this is is up for debate. But keep in mind, 1 lb per week isn't exactly "slow". That's 4 lbs a month. Unless you're just starting out, I'd guess half of that would be fat. Truth be told, if you over eat, you're going to put some fat on with the muscle. It's just that, instead of gaining like 4 lbs per week, you gain 1.

    The method you numbered above sounds a lot like information presented in Lyle McDonald's articles and I can say it will work. If you want to do it that way, you will see results.

    However, daniel's method also works. And for people who are unclear where they want to over shoot for bulks, and weights to cut down to for losing fat, it may be better.

    So after reviewing your posts, it is my opinion that you follow the method you feel best with. Both work. I have done both myself.
    Thanks for your response. I am still a little unclear as to Daniel's method. You are saying if I eat at a maintenance level of a 157 lb man at 9% body fat, then that is what I will achieve after a certain amount of time? No cycling involved? That seems hard to believe...(Apologies in advance for my confusion). I'm still learning about everything.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by originalbadman View Post
    Thanks for your response. I am still a little unclear as to Daniel's method. You are saying if I eat at a maintenance level of a 157 lb man at 9% body fat, then that is what I will achieve after a certain amount of time? No cycling involved? That seems hard to believe...(Apologies in advance for my confusion). I'm still learning about everything.
    If I'm not mistaken, his calculations are for a target weight at 10% bf, but still.

    Yes, that's the idea though. You eat for your weight, and eventually you get there. In my previous post, your body goes through similar stages as bulking.

    1. Increase in muscle mass with an increase in body fat
    2. Increase in muscle mass at the expense of body fat
    3. Muscle mass maintained while losing small amounts of body fat
    4. Energy equilibrium (of muscle and fat) i.e you hit your goal

    Thats the idea of it. Don't expect to hit step number 4 for a very long time. It gives you the goal of getting there though without having to over shoot body weight and then focus on Calorie deprivation where you could lose LBM.

    Like I said though, both ways work. With Daniels way, a lot of people end up eating more Calories than normal. This increases muscle and fat. If training and Calories remain static, muscle increases become static and if improvements are seen, it's the result of using body fat for energy. This might be comparable to eating at a maintenance level. Before long, RMR changes and the Calorie level becomes a slight deficit. This elicits muscle maintenance and body fat reduction. After a period of time, body fat decreases come to a halt and your still static Calorie level becomes your maintenance level. Hence, there is an energy equilibrium of both muscle and fat.

    Does that help?
    First Bulk pics VS Starting pics, take a look!! http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=1#post1616109

    Progress pics of a cut using bodyweight only movements http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...45#post2405745

    Generally, if you read a piece of advice on the internet, assume it's wrong until proven otherwise. This applies especially to "conventional wisdom". -Belial

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    so im 250 now probably 20% bf id like to get to 265 and say 20% bf in a year would this be possilbe and then maybe 270 at 16% in the next year??

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    Hey all,

    I read the article on bulking or cutting and have to say, it was very well written an very informative. I'm new to website and took a read through this thread, and everyone seems to want to help, which is great because I would love some. I'm a 17 year old male, 168 pounds, roughly 14.3-16% bodyfat (used AccuMeasure body fat caliper, but have inconsistent results can't seem to find my superilliac). Anyways, I've been doing Stronglifts 5x5 (http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5...ining-program/) for 10 weeks now, this is my 11th. My goal, weight-wise, is 185. My goal, bf-wise, is 9% bf (10 is to show abs, I figure 1 percent lower couldn't hurt me). A question I have is, Mehdi (Stronglifts 5x5 writer) suggests to eat a lot and keep eating to gain strenght, which will gain muscle. If i follow this articles recommendation, 185x16 = 2960 calories. I can understand the caloric increase, because I weigh 168 and therefore require less calories to maintain, and have a VERY vague understanding of the fat loss once I reach my goal of 185 (someone explain further on the fat loss please!). However, would it still be possible to progressively overload my muscles each workout, as Mehdi suggests? My current workout stats are (these are PR's for me so I'm STOKED!): Squat - 195, Bench - 130, Deadlift - 230(grip failing, help?), Overhead Press - 90, Barbell Row - 115.

    Quick Overview: I weigh 168 at 14.3-16% bf, want to weigh 185 at 8-10% bf.

    Thanks a bunch in advance!

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    WHy would anyone ever cut? You worked so hard to put the weight on and you just waste it by going on a restricted calroie diet? Baffling. I'll never get it. I'll never understand the idea of gaining weight and then losing it on purpose????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    WHy would anyone ever cut? You worked so hard to put the weight on and you just waste it by going on a restricted calroie diet? Baffling. I'll never get it. I'll never understand the idea of gaining weight and then losing it on purpose????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
    i feel you and i are going to battle on this one.. but going on a cut and losing weight does not have to mean losing muscle... or atleast alot of gained muscle....
    Last edited by ZAR-FIT; 01-24-2012 at 11:42 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    WHy would anyone ever cut? You worked so hard to put the weight on and you just waste it by going on a restricted calroie diet? Baffling. I'll never get it. I'll never understand the idea of gaining weight and then losing it on purpose????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
    Bodybuilders and people training for aesthetics cut weight to drop fat while trying to minimize muscle loss. People do this to look lean and muscular. That's really all there is to it.
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    I get the competitive bodybuilders. That's part of the process. What I don't understand are the guys who cut weight for aesthetics (to get girls). That's the real reason, unless you like showing off your abs to other dudes.

    I've always been a believer in kicking ass instead of having a nice ass. The body is made to perform. I get that guys want to be lean, but I am lost when they want to cut weight and have no muscle in the first place.

    If you're a 200lb guy, you don't have any muscle unless you're 5'2" and even then you're still pretty small.

    Why wouldn't someone get bigger, gain some fat and then once they reach a certain weight just clean up the diet? Instead of actively losing weight, a lot of which will be muscle if you're not on drugs, clean up your eating and keep training your balls off. If you lose a few pounds, so be it. But actively restricting calories is a sure fire way to never really gain any appreciable muscle.

    Again, I'm an old man. When I joined the gym men were there to get bigger and stronger. Trying to look better is something that women do.

  21. #96
    Rory Parker Behemoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    WHy would anyone ever cut? You worked so hard to put the weight on and you just waste it by going on a restricted calroie diet? Baffling. I'll never get it. I'll never understand the idea of gaining weight and then losing it on purpose????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
    It's a matter of preference. I've never understood the mindset of perma-bulking and writing off nearly useless fat as acceptable body mass.

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    I get the competitive bodybuilders. That's part of the process. What I don't understand are the guys who cut weight for aesthetics (to get girls). That's the real reason, unless you like showing off your abs to other dudes.

    I've always been a believer in kicking ass instead of having a nice ass. The body is made to perform. I get that guys want to be lean, but I am lost when they want to cut weight and have no muscle in the first place.
    I don't compete but yet get greater satisfaction out of my regular diets and the uncovering of every last striation of the new muscle I've built. Much more so in fact than the process of actually gaining that muscle.

    If ones not competing in powerlifting/strongman and they've already attained even moderate strength they're not sacrificing anything functional or necessary by keeping their bodyfat low. Non competitive functional performance is often sacrificed by doing the exact opposite.

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post

    If you're a 200lb guy, you don't have any muscle unless you're 5'2" and even then you're still pretty small.
    I'm 179 at 5'9" in avi, I see a muscle or two there.

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post

    Why wouldn't someone get bigger, gain some fat and then once they reach a certain weight just clean up the diet? Instead of actively losing weight, a lot of which will be muscle if you're not on drugs, clean up your eating and keep training your balls off. If you lose a few pounds, so be it. But actively restricting calories is a sure fire way to never really gain any appreciable muscle.
    Have you ever seen a competitive natural bodybuilder? You can retain a plethora of muscle and being extremely large and strong if you do it right.
    http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...ow-160-s/page2
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  22. #97
    Poon Handler JacobH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    If you're a 200lb guy, you don't have any muscle unless you're 5'2" and even then you're still pretty small.
    This is an absurd statement.
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  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
    It's a matter of preference. I've never understood the mindset of perma-bulking and writing off nearly useless fat as acceptable body mass.



    I don't compete but yet get greater satisfaction out of my regular diets and the uncovering of every last striation of the new muscle I've built. Much more so in fact than the process of actually gaining that muscle.

    If ones not competing in powerlifting/strongman and they've already attained even moderate strength they're not sacrificing anything functional or necessary by keeping their bodyfat low. Non competitive functional performance is often sacrificed by doing the exact opposite.



    I'm 179 at 5'9" in avi, I see a muscle or two there.



    Have you ever seen a competitive natural bodybuilder? You can retain a plethora of muscle and being extremely large and strong if you do it right.
    http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...ow-160-s/page2
    Ha! Competitive natural bodybuilder. That's an oxymoron.

    If you're happy with what you do, that's great. At 5'9" 179lbs, I doubt there's much muscle, but that's your call. I believe in hitting the weights to be big and strong. At 5'9", you should be at leat 250bs in my world.

    But, again, if you're happy, then I'm happy for you. Being small and weak is not my idea of success at the gym. Carrying an avergae amount of bodyfat is very acceptable when it will help your strength and your joints. But whaqt do I know? I'm only 6'4" 304lbs.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by JacobH View Post
    This is an absurd statement.
    Not really. It's all in how you look at it. A very wise and famous man once said, "Any man under 200lbs is a woman." At some point you have to take advantage of the fact that you're a man and have the ability to build muscle.

    If you need to take your shirt off for people to know you go to the gym, then you don't have any muscle.

    I'm definately from the old-school mindset. Being small and ripped isn't ripped. It's just small. Those are internal organs and tendons and ligaments, not muscle.

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    ^^What about competitive athletes who want to have the most efficient body they can? Replacing fat with muscle in order to run faster or fight at a certain weight-class seems like a legit reason for cutting. It's not just about aesthetics.

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