Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 61

Thread: Westside Releases Statement Regarding Hoff Incident

  1. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    737
    I'm seriously sick of this ****.
    Finally ELITE @ SHW..

    Single ply: 931 squat, 760 bench, 530 deadlift and 2180 total
    Multi ply: 960 squat, 770 bench, 550 deadlift and 2250 total.

    The next stop: PRO total.

    HOO's Gym: building the strongest gym in the South, one plate at a time.

  2. #27
    2000
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    16
    Amen Jack!!!
    "A wise man once said nothing because he knew his actions would speak for him"

    Meet PRs:
    @308 RAW

    Squat 700
    Bench 475
    Deadlift 670
    Total 1830

  3. #28
    Soon to be lean... Joe Black's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Cambridge, England
    Posts
    10,936
    As Chris said, I think Louie giving the money to the other contestants was just his way of trying to do what everyone else thinks is right. That way no one feels as if they have lost out and should be able to move on.

    I must admit I do think it is a bit odd doing that, because it conflicts with Louie's stance, but it is what it is.

    If I was in Louie's situation, I would have probably taken the same stance. (apart from giving the money to the other guys) He didn't see anything, no one else saw anything and the guy swears blind he didn't do anything - so what other choice does he have?

    If Hoff DID do something, he sure as hell won't ever be able to do anything again as he will be watched like a hawk at future events.
    Last edited by Joe Black; 08-28-2009 at 02:37 AM.
    http://www.wannabebig.com/logo/alnlogo_black.gif

    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Ė Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

    Hypertrophy Cluster Training - HCT-12 - If you want big gains in size and strength, huge decreases in body fat, or both - check out HCT-12.

    Can I have some lean muscle & strength please? Ė My Training Journal

  4. #29
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    76
    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    IF video were allowed as part of the judging process as a meet rule prior to its commencement, then it should be considered. If not, then everyone should go with the calls made at the meet. That's it.
    Exactly. If he cheated or not it really doesn't matter you can't change the rules after the event because you don't like the way something occurred. If there is nothing in the rules that states lifts can be overturned upon video review, then the lift has to stand. Changing the rules is cheating as well as far as I concerned. If he cheated and got away with it, that sucks but if he didn't and is suspended etc. that sucks more.

  5. #30
    Senior Member Ryano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    596
    Everyone has an opinion if Hoff cheated or not. I personally am convinced he did. Jesse Rodgers obviously thinks he did. I originally thought that Louie Simmons thought he cheated since he paid Wenning and Cartright. With Lou's statement, he says Hoff didn't cheat and then attacks the "internet geeks" instead of explaining why he paid the extra money out anyway. That doesn't make sense to me.

    Why hasn't Hoff made any statements anywhere? Maybe he doesn't want Louie to think he's an internet geek? I suppose that most people have made up their mind that he cheated and if he denies it, he will just be considered a liar and a cheat. The people who saw something wrong at the meet should come forward to put an end to this controversy. Like others have said, judges now will be looking for shirt/gear stuffing from now on and I will call my shirted 2brd presses "Hoff Presses" from now on.
    Can't wait 'til tomorrow, 'cause I get stronger every day!

  6. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Rock Falls IL
    Posts
    740
    Very Well put Vincent!

  7. #32
    THUNDER THIGHS! Fuzzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Posts
    2,790
    I hate to feed Mr Simmons' disdain for computer geeks, but...

    Being a strong teenager means nothing.

    My wrists hurt, but some people don't have wrists to be sore. My knees have tendinitis, but some people don't have legs to get tendinitis in. I seem to be going backwards with training, yet some people can't even walk let alone lift 400 pounds on a daily basis.

    Dust out the vagina, and keep on lifting.

  8. #33
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    7,644
    Wow.

    For squatters, I'm going to invent big, knobby, flesh-colored knee wraps that allow you to hit parallel right out of the monolift. I'll make HUNDREDS.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  9. #34
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    33
    Hi,
    I'm a member who does not post much because i don't know much on lifting weights. I started 6 months ago with starting strength and i'm still at it. I just basically check every day and pickup tips from you more experienced guys. I fell on this thread by pure accident and read through. All i can say is that there is something definatley wrong with that picture. I don't know much about powerlifting and much less about equipment likes shirts - but i can say that is not normal.
    Now back to reading the texas method.

  10. #35
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Westside Barbell, OH
    Posts
    8,920
    Jesse's statement today

    Ok, when the video and picture got posted Monday Louie and I had to make a decision and really fast and we agreed to suspend Dave Hoff when all this first started. Thirty minutes later Louie called be back and we realized that we did not handle the situation the way it should have been handled according to the rules, simply because of all the pressure on the internet and everywhere else. Actually there should have been a meeting and open decision about all this among the board, trying to handle the situation fast I did not do this.
    Now after having time to breath and after talking to a lot of people, including the Vice President Rick Posey, which informed me that I shouldnít have suspended Hoff because nothing was seen or caught at the meet. I also had another long conversion with Louie Simmons today, and discussed this in pretty good detail again. I have also talked too many of our board members at this time which are from many federations also and not just SPF.

    If we had caught someone cheating at the meet, the lift would not have counted; he would have been disqualified, and placed on probation. End of story as in any federation. Not one person saw anything on or around the platform including myself. Many lifters that were there have already said the same thing, they saw nothing. I do not believe it is right to judge a meet from a video and or after the fact. I basically believe everyone should go by the rules and sorry but that does not include videos and pictures and after the fact judging. Right or wrong that is just the way it is. There is SO much controversy over this, no matter what is decided some people will agree and some will not and thatís a fact. Also fact is some people canít wait to find fault with any decision I make.

    So regardless, based on what is right by the rules that we have all always went by from the beginning and is not based on Louieís post, it also is not on rather or not the SPF sanctions the Pro Am next year,

    This is not even entered into the picture and doesnít matter either way. It is not even based on how much Louie pays me, as someone said on one forum, not this one, because if you noticed the other post, the SPF wasnít paid anything nor did we want to be. Wasnít part of it and pay will not be part of it next year. In our eyes, right is right and wrong is wrong.

    1. Since there is no rule book in no federation that says we have the luxury of going home and viewing a tape and then changing our decisions we must live with the decisions that ALL referees made and David Hoff is reinstated as is the lifts.

    This is what I have a problem with. No one caught him red handed doing anything wrong at the meet, but after the fact, on one picture. I am not placing blame anywhere, this is just the way I see it. I was there too and I mean standing right there and I saw nothing either. Yes if I had I would have stopped him in his tracks.

    One other thing when something goes wrong at a meet and the lifter QUOTES the rule in their favor then they want the problem fixed right then, saying they want to go by the book, and thatís the way it should be. Now with this problem some people think we should just do whatever they think is best, sorry but it canít stand that way, we have to go by the what rules we have in play.

    1. Videos and pictures are not in ANY rule book, including ours.

    2. Not one official at the meet seen anything and yes they watch the best they can.

    3. I too stood right there where he walked in and out of the back room and I saw nothing myself.

    4. Not one person at the meet came to me and said that it looked like to them he had something under the shirt.

    5. Many lifters were propped up on the weight rack that was around the floor watching extremely intent as the bar was lowered to his chest, again not one person seen anything.

    6. I personally saw him walk back to the warm up room and saw nothing.

    7. In no video that I have watched does it look like there is anything there when the lift is over and he stands up, waves his hands and walks off.

    8. If there was anyone at the meet that saw anything, why wasnít anything said at the meet?

    9. This is after the fact.

    10. With as many officials that where there including myself and as many lifters and spectators that were there with their eyes locked on this lift. Not one person saw a thing. Not counting all the videos. Seems extremely odd.

    11. This is the meet video taking by the staff I guess, it shows nothing that I can tell. http://www.ironscene.com/videos/3052...009_spf_pro-am he jumps up and waves his arms, not worrying about any object that I can tell.

    12. Really no matter what we think or donít think there is not rule book out there that says we can judge a lift after the fact, at home with a video of any lift.

    My own opinions donít matter anymore than anyone else. Rules are rules and they are all we have and we must go by them on good days as well as bad one.

    Again I apologize to everyone for all the time spent on this and trust me; I do understand your concern and the importance of this to every lifter out there. I am trying to do the best I possible can with this situation. Again I apologize to every lifter and to every person that is part of this sport. I can just hope I got it right this time.

    Jesse Rodgers
    I stand behind the most important person in powerlifting to me, my coach and my gym. I also support Jesse and his decisions.


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

    Superior Athletics - Northeast Ohio's Center for Athlete Training
    *Westside Barbell Certified Gym

  11. #36
    Go Bears Pete22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    2,556
    Travis, I hate to ask this, but why did you delete this from your original post on the subject?

    Obviously my perspective has changed, but that was not until discussing this with people who actually witnessed these actions as well as comming into some incontrovertible evidence. I was greatly dissapointed in those who saw what happened and did not speak up. Integrity would call for them to have spoken up during the meet, not after, but hopefully we can all learn from this situation and never ever let this happen again. Cheating in a meet has no place.
    Your original post was edited last night? I'm not trying to cause controversy, but I notice that you said you came into some "incontrovertible evidence", and now that part is gone?
    My Training Log

    You want science and studies? **** you. I've got scars and blood and vomit. - Jim Wendler

  12. #37
    Jersey Iron Barbaccio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Somerdale, NJ
    Posts
    1,454
    Standing behind something doesn't always mean it's right. You can stand behind your child's right to get a trophy even though they came in last place. Still doesn't mean they deserved the trophy. However, if you honestly feel he did nothing wrong, then you should absolutely stand by him. But if you know he cheated and are standing by "just because" well, there's no honor in that stance. Even the mafia will turn on their own when they step outside the rules.

    sponsored by

    Don't Flinch.
    Jersey Iron Gear!
    Tone on Facebook
    880/820/770/2415 Geared
    680/530/750/1960 Raw

  13. #38
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Westside Barbell, OH
    Posts
    8,920
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete22 View Post
    Travis, I hate to ask this, but why did you delete this from your original post on the subject?



    Your original post was edited last night? I'm not trying to cause controversy, but I notice that you said you came into some "incontrovertible evidence", and now that part is gone?


    Because someone was using it on another forum to distort what I said.

    Thanks for posting it back up though and not sending me a PM

    Edit to include quote from Pete lol.
    Last edited by Travis Bell; 08-28-2009 at 11:47 AM.


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

    Superior Athletics - Northeast Ohio's Center for Athlete Training
    *Westside Barbell Certified Gym

  14. #39
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Westside Barbell, OH
    Posts
    8,920
    Quote Originally Posted by Barbaccio View Post
    Standing behind something doesn't always mean it's right. You can stand behind your child's right to get a trophy even though they came in last place. Still doesn't mean they deserved the trophy. However, if you honestly feel he did nothing wrong, then you should absolutely stand by him. But if you know he cheated and are standing by "just because" well, there's no honor in that stance. Even the mafia will turn on their own when they step outside the rules.
    I understand where you're comming from Tone. Were I not in my position, I might say the same thing

    I don't expect a lot of people to understand and fully realize that I will come under a lot of fire for this one. But I know I'm doing the right thing.

    I was there at the meet. I've been involved in almost all the discussions with the powers at be and this is where I stand, with Louie and Westside Barbell.


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

    Superior Athletics - Northeast Ohio's Center for Athlete Training
    *Westside Barbell Certified Gym

  15. #40
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    563
    haha, all that can be done at this point is laugh
    Sponsored by:
    OverKill Strength Equipment
    APT ProWristStraps

    Success is usually achieved by always doing a little more than you thought you could, and a lot more than anyone else.

    Don't measure yourself by what you have accomplished, but by what you should accomplish with your ability." John Wooden

  16. #41
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Westside Barbell, OH
    Posts
    8,920
    Quote Originally Posted by bencher8 View Post
    haha, all that can be done at this point is laugh
    Nah, it's cool Paul. I won't get pissed this time. I'm fully open to it.


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

    Superior Athletics - Northeast Ohio's Center for Athlete Training
    *Westside Barbell Certified Gym

  17. #42
    Senior Member Jorge Sanchez's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    6,607
    As a completely disinterested observer, I think this was the right decision. Judging by the video, it certainly looks like he had something in his shirt but that's just speculation and conjecture, not evidence.
    quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur

  18. #43
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    563
    lol It may be cool and you may be open to it, but I just dont care anymore. I dont care if he cheated or not, I dont care what jesse or lou and WSB, or you have to say about it, I dont care if his lifts count.....it doesn matter anymore..

    to hell with it..Im with Tone on this one. I need to get ready for a meet, cause I dont feel like Powerlifting has much in the way of integrity anymore. You cant compare anything. You cant compare feds to feds, lifts to lifts, one year to the next. The only thing you can do is compare yourself to yourself and hold yourself to standards.
    Sponsored by:
    OverKill Strength Equipment
    APT ProWristStraps

    Success is usually achieved by always doing a little more than you thought you could, and a lot more than anyone else.

    Don't measure yourself by what you have accomplished, but by what you should accomplish with your ability." John Wooden

  19. #44
    lockupgym.com waynedang's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    493
    Quote Originally Posted by bencher8 View Post
    lol It may be cool and you may be open to it, but I just dont care anymore. I dont care if he cheated or not, I dont care what jesse or lou and WSB, or you have to say about it, I dont care if his lifts count.....it doesn matter anymore..

    to hell with it..Im with Tone on this one. I need to get ready for a meet, cause I dont feel like Powerlifting has much in the way of integrity anymore. You cant compare anything. You cant compare feds to feds, lifts to lifts, one year to the next. The only thing you can do is compare yourself to yourself and hold yourself to standards.
    well said Paul
    pain is inevitable suffering is optional

    www.ryanopower.com

    http://www.prowriststraps.com

  20. #45
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    7,644
    I'm not saying anyone is at fault for missing it - in a meet, everyone is doing their own thing (making sure the weights are correct, spotting, judging, cheering, or lifting) and too busy for much else. BUT, why is anyone even questioning whether this guy cheated or not? I think it's pretty damn clear w. that picture and coupled with the video just makes it crystal clear.

    It seems a pretty easy fix. Ask the guy. If he denies it and you don't think you have sufficient evidence, then move on and make damn sure it doesn't happen again by having equipment checks at meets (which are rare at most).
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  21. #46
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    30
    On one hand, I commend Louie Simmons and Jesse Rodgers for stepping up and take action (sometimes unpopular action) in the face of ugly circumstances. On the other hand, if they'd a taken the path of least resistance and said/done nothing, this all would have all blown over by now.

    Yo Paul, what's your next meet? You doing APF GA State or you got another one picked?
    Last edited by Zak Freiwald; 08-28-2009 at 01:15 PM.

  22. #47
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    Posts
    12,691
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    I hate to feed Mr Simmons' disdain for computer geeks, but...

    I have watched the video and I believe that picture is altered to make it look a LOT worse than it is.


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Ė Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

  23. #48
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    Posts
    12,691
    Quote Originally Posted by Barbaccio View Post
    Standing behind something doesn't always mean it's right. You can stand behind your child's right to get a trophy even though they came in last place. Still doesn't mean they deserved the trophy. However, if you honestly feel he did nothing wrong, then you should absolutely stand by him. But if you know he cheated and are standing by "just because" well, there's no honor in that stance. Even the mafia will turn on their own when they step outside the rules.
    Louie believes what Hoff told him. Why does everyone have to judge that?


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Ė Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

  24. #49
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Westside Barbell, OH
    Posts
    8,920
    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    Louie believes what Hoff told him. Why does everyone have to judge that?
    I think Tone was referring to my comment? I could be mistaken


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

    Superior Athletics - Northeast Ohio's Center for Athlete Training
    *Westside Barbell Certified Gym

  25. #50
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    6
    Couldn't Hoff just suit up again and show that the lump in his shirt is always there? Maybe that would silence the critics. Although, at this point, I don't guess it matters.

Similar Threads

  1. Westside Barbell Seminar
    By Travis Bell in forum Powerlifting and Strength Training
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 03-20-2009, 01:32 PM
  2. Westside 'Til You Die!
    By silles in forum Powerlifting and Strength Training
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 12-20-2007, 05:49 AM
  3. Westside Primer/FAQ by Kethnaab
    By Sentinel in forum Powerlifting and Strength Training
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-14-2006, 04:39 PM
  4. Westside Template Made Easy
    By Sensei in forum Powerlifting and Strength Training
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 12-25-2005, 01:26 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •