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Thread: Routines that you've made the biggest gains on

  1. #51
    Senior Member DMedley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drummer View Post
    Ok, I'm just wondering about intensity then because if I do a true 5x5 across on squats I'm going to struggle to then do 5x5 across on heavy deadlifts. The deadlift is so intense many people now recommend you deadlift heavy fairly infrequently to allow recovery. 1x a week or less. Westside for instance generally approach getting stronger at the deadlift without actually deadlifting much. Although opinion varies. Sgt Rock on this forum goes against this and believes you should pull more frequently to get better at deadlifting.

    Also, I'd need to take about three minutes rest between lower-body sets and probably a 5+ rest between my squats and my deads. So for five sets each that would already be quite a long time. And then you've got all that other stuff to do...

    I really like the Reg Parks philosophy of working hard on the basic compounds, doing 5x5, so I'm just trying to figure out the bits I'm confused with... the only way I'm seeing this is if it's done at a significantly lower intensity, never to failure. If you're going for hypertrophy then I suppose that could work because all the volume would mean you'd still get enough work and you'd be able to cope with shorter rest times. If you were just trying to increase numbers then I'm sure the weights would get too heavy to keep that kind of thing up.

    Thanks for putting it out there. I love seeing the old school methods of people like Reg Parks.
    The intensity is high there is no two ways about it. But keep in mind that two of the five sets are actually warm up sets and you do not rest that long between them. You actually have 3 sets that are at full weight and rest time.

  2. #52
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risk10k View Post
    I was really refering to TUT as in actual time moving the weight, similar to what Dave Tate was talking about in this article here;

    http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_a...ever_dave_tate

    Siff said something about it too, but I think it was muscle fibre recruitment vs. muscle fibre growth. I'll have to look through super-training for an actual reference.
    That's the same thing as what I posted bud.

    3-5 seconds to complete the set probably would have been a better way for me to word it.

    Time under tension and total volume are two different things, that's all I was clearing up


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  3. #53
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drummer View Post
    Ok, I'm just wondering about intensity then because if I do a true 5x5 across on squats I'm going to struggle to then do 5x5 across on heavy deadlifts. The deadlift is so intense many people now recommend you deadlift heavy fairly infrequently to allow recovery. 1x a week or less. Westside for instance generally approach getting stronger at the deadlift without actually deadlifting much. Although opinion varies. Sgt Rock on this forum goes against this and believes you should pull more frequently to get better at deadlifting.

    Also, I'd need to take about three minutes rest between lower-body sets and probably a 5+ rest between my squats and my deads. So for five sets each that would already be quite a long time. And then you've got all that other stuff to do...

    I really like the Reg Parks philosophy of working hard on the basic compounds, doing 5x5, so I'm just trying to figure out the bits I'm confused with... the only way I'm seeing this is if it's done at a significantly lower intensity, never to failure. If you're going for hypertrophy then I suppose that could work because all the volume would mean you'd still get enough work and you'd be able to cope with shorter rest times. If you were just trying to increase numbers then I'm sure the weights would get too heavy to keep that kind of thing up.

    Thanks for putting it out there. I love seeing the old school methods of people like Reg Parks.

    For me, I look at intensity as more the pace at which you go through your workout.

    So a high intensity workout would be short periods between sets and higher volume.

    I suppose it's a little up to the definition of each person.


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  4. #54
    Getting There... Irish Pilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    What do you mean he mixes the power/hypertrophy days? Like does them on opposite days?
    Sorry it took me so long to respond...been out of town. I thought he did something like a Upper Power/Lower Hyp, Lower Power/ Upper Hype...but double checked and found it was this...

    1. Power Upper (Coupounds, low reps, heavy weight)
    2. Power Lower (Coupounds, low reps, heavy weight)
    3. Hypertrophy Chest/Arms (Higher reps, more sets)
    4. Hypertrophy Shoulders/Back (Higher reps, more sets)
    5. Hypertrophy Legs (Higher reps, more sets)
    - Slave & Master At The Same Damn Time -
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  5. #55
    On My Way..... rbar89's Avatar
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    Monday: Upper
    BB Bench Press
    DB/BB Incline Press
    Cable Rows
    Close Grip Pull downs
    Shrugs
    Lat Raises
    Triceps: (close grip bench, pushdowns, or extensions)


    Wednesday: Lower
    Squat
    Leg Press
    Romanian Dead lifts
    Calf Raises
    Hyperextension
    Abs


    Friday: Upper
    BB Shoulder Press
    DB Bench Press
    BB Rows/DB bent over rows
    Wide Grip Pull downs
    Dips
    Upward Rows
    Biceps: (barbell curl, preacher curl, or cable curl, DB hammer curls)

    I also do hang cleans and cardio on another day of the week i choose
    Age: 19 | height: 6'1''
    Current Maxes: (May 2009)
    Bench: 275 | Squat: 355 | Clean: 240 | Deadlift: 455 | Body Weight-205lbs
    "When you know Squat about lifting, you know the important part."

  6. #56
    Risk10k Clifford Gillmore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    That's the same thing as what I posted bud.

    3-5 seconds to complete the set probably would have been a better way for me to word it.

    Time under tension and total volume are two different things, that's all I was clearing up
    Soooooo..... I agree with you?

  7. #57
    The Flyfisher rbtrout's Avatar
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    The best until I started powerlifting training was 5X5......then I started training pl style and have done even better.
    Give chalk a chance.


    49 years old

    665 squat
    700 deadlift
    325 bench

  8. #58
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    What do you mean he mixes the power/hypertrophy days? Like does them on opposite days?


    Great input guys!. MeatHead, that was an awesome post.

    It seems that one of the things that also jumps out at me is the volume you all have within the routines that helped you along.

    Volume is huge. The weight itself is important, but achieving the proper volume or "time under the bar" is going to be vastly more effective than focusing purely on the weight your using.

    Actually one of the things that I think people miss is that over time you should be able to increase your volume in the gym. Obviously it'll have to vary in intensity so your body doesn't get burnt out.

    Does anyone occasionally do 2 sessions per day?
    I think that's a misnomer; it actually looks somewhat like what is listed except if i'm more bodybuilding focussed i'll usually go to a 5 day split and break the upper body hypertrophy into 2 days.

    When i'm more powerlifting focussed it becomes more like westside and but I put the dynamic days on my volume workouts.

  9. #59
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    best for me have been madcows variant of 5x5 (intermediate) and 5-3-1, both gave great size/strength.

  10. #60
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by str8flexed View Post
    I think that's a misnomer; it actually looks somewhat like what is listed except if i'm more bodybuilding focussed i'll usually go to a 5 day split and break the upper body hypertrophy into 2 days.

    When i'm more powerlifting focussed it becomes more like westside and but I put the dynamic days on my volume workouts.
    Thanks for posting Layne! That makes a lot of sense.

    I guess one thing I would ask you is what routine did you make big gains on in your physique when you were getting started in bodybuilding?


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  11. #61
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    ive only done to routines since ive been working out. the first was max ot,which is where i got all my gains,but after 3 years its wore its self out on my so ive started wannabebig 1.1 now and so far it seems awesome
    squat-300x5,max???
    deadlift-365x5max???
    bench-230x5max???
    total number for 5 rep max-895

  12. #62
    Senior Member Invain's Avatar
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    The routine I use now, which is also the one I've had the best gains on, is pretty much the same thing as the very first routine Travis posted, except I have the days in different orders based on what works best for me.

    When I'm bulking:

    Monday: Back and Bi's
    Tuesday: Rest
    Wednesday: Chest and Tri's
    Thursday: Legs
    Friday: Shoulders
    Saturday: Rest
    Sunday: Speed/light chest and legs
    Best lifts: 615/475/660, Raw w/ Wraps
    http://www.youtube.com/user/invain622002

  13. #63
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Nice to see you posting here Layne. I would love to see more.

    For me, the ideal is a combination of the best of the powerlifting and bodybuilding worlds. It sounds like Layne does just that.


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  14. #64
    Strongman Tom Mutaffis's Avatar
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    The best gains that I have ever made were on a periodized 'power building' program where I would work specific bodyparts with a focus on one heavy compound movement each day. Similar to some concepts from DC training I generally warm up to one high intensity set with that movement. From there I would typically move on to either some lighter compound movements or complexes. The complexes would group either similar movements or in some cases opposing muscles depending on the size of the muscle group (opposing for arms, etc.) and similar for back, legs, etc.

    My split was something like this for years:

    Monday: Back
    Tuesday: Chest
    Wednesday: Legs
    Thursday: Shoulders
    Friday: Biceps / Triceps

    The compound or 'focus' movements would look something like this:

    Monday: Weighted Chins
    Tuesday: Incline Dumbell Press
    Wednesday: Squats or Sumo Deadlifts
    Thursday: Power Cleans, Dumbell Military Press
    Friday: Close Grip Bench or Weighted Dips, Heavy Alternating Dumbell Curls

    My rep scheme would be low for the compound movements and then all of my additional work would be in the 8-10 rep range for the most part. By low rep I mean 3-5 with occasional heavier sets if I was shooting for a PR or something. Overall volume of my workouts would be 15-20 sets and I always kept my sessions within an hour. Variation is key and each workout I would usually do something a little differently; either a different grip, movement, or variation. I generally would not train on the weekends.

    At times I would switch over to a four day split and add triceps to my chest (pressing) day and then do shoulders and biceps together on Friday, with Thursday as an off day. I don't think that I ever squatted and deadlifted in the same week and I would generally only do each movement once a month, with a lot of heavy leg press, lunges, etc. as my leg work.

    I did change the bodypart breakdown and order when things became stale, and would generally stick with pushing muscles, pulling muscles, and lower body as my groupings. I would workout for about three months with increasing intensity and pushing for PR's until I took a week off - and generally the week off would involve a lot of cardio since I really love being in the gym.

    This routine allowed me to consistently increase strength and size over a period of about four years. Gaining over 50 lbs of LBM and putting more than 150 lbs on all of my big lifts, if not more. At 17 years old I was able to deadlift 3X bodyweight, bench 2X bodyweight, and squat 2X bodyweight for 5+ reps. At the time I was 200 lbs and had a visable six pack, striations, and was quite vascular. The only supplements that I used were some occasional stimulants, protein powder, and some creatine. May have also been using 1-AD for a little while but I cannot remember if that was at 17 or 18. I would eat enormous amounts of protein and had good knowledge of proper nutrition which I think was key in avoiding overtraining. I also would never push for weights when they were not there, but if I was feeling good would always try to hit PR's (instinctive training).

    I think that the biggest things to take away from this were hard work, consistency, and a well rounded program. Without the diet discpline, sleep, and relentless work in the gym there is no way that I would have achieved what I did. I still believe that for bodybuilding/hypertrophy bodypart splits are absolutely the way to go. I also like them for strength gains when utilized correctly. Once I started competing in strongman those workouts were so demanding that I had to really alter my training in order to be able to make gains on the events. Luckily I had built such a strength/muscle base that I was able to for the most part just do maintenance work. Now I am experimenting with some new programs to focus on continuing to build a balanced physique both in terms of look and performance.
    ASC 105 Kg Pro Strongman | My Website | Facebook Fan Page

    Weight: 218 lbs | Gym PR's -> Front Squat: 510 lbs / Overhead: 375 lbs / Deadlift: 700 lbs

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  15. #65
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mutaffis View Post
    At 17 years old I was able to deadlift 3X bodyweight, bench 2X bodyweight, and squat 2X bodyweight for 5+ reps...I was 200 lbs .
    You sir are a freak (in a good way)
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  16. #66
    Strongman Tom Mutaffis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    You sir are a freak (in a good way)
    Thanks Off Road.

    I think that a part of what made my initial training so successful was that I trained very hard in the beginning and was able to take advantage of 'newbie gains'. Also had a good strength base from BMX riding when I was younger(not only the cycling but we did a lot of manual labor to build jumps and whatnot).

    It is pretty hard to overtrain when you are first starting out and relatively easy to break plateaus. The biggest mistake that I have seen in newer trainees is expecting easy results or being satisfied with slow gains. That is a time when you can really push the limit as long as you have good direction on technique.

    _______________________________

    To continue the initial discussion, has anyone tried a new program as an intermediate or advanced lifter that gave them great gains?

    I did some GVT for a month or so as a shock program and made some great size gains with it. Strength increases were not noticable and I became bored with the program quickly but it seemed effective as a short term 'change-up'.
    ASC 105 Kg Pro Strongman | My Website | Facebook Fan Page

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  17. #67
    Resolute -JM-'s Avatar
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    5/3/1 beneficiary here. In about 10 months....

    Squat 290x3 > 320x8
    Bench 250x1 > 295x2, 315x1
    Deadlift 405x1 > 410x9, 525x1

    BW 211>226>222
    This is the true joy in life, the being used for a purpose recognized by yourself as a mighty one; the being thoroughly worn out before you are thrown on the scrap heap; the being a force of Nature instead of a feverish selfish little clod of ailments and grievances complaining that the world will not devote itself to making you happy - George Bernard Shaw

  18. #68
    Strongman Tom Mutaffis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flynn View Post
    5/3/1 beneficiary here. In about 10 months....

    Squat 290x3 > 320x8
    Bench 250x1 > 295x2, 315x1
    Deadlift 405x1 > 410x9, 525x1

    BW 211>226>222
    Wow, those are some outstanding gains that you have made.

    What kind of diet are you following? Any new supplements or anything? How long have you been training for?
    ASC 105 Kg Pro Strongman | My Website | Facebook Fan Page

    Weight: 218 lbs | Gym PR's -> Front Squat: 510 lbs / Overhead: 375 lbs / Deadlift: 700 lbs

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  19. #69
    GFH Lones Green's Avatar
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    My best gains were on a "power bench" program in high school, I can't even remember what it was. My weightlifting coach had me do it, I had to eat 3 eggs a day and I thought it was so much, LOL. It was benching 3x a week though

    I went from a 95 bench to a 160 bench in a semester

    Then after fooling around with bodybuilding type stuff, I did the original WBB 1, BGB, and then I got into 5x5 and liked it a lot, then took a liking to heavy weights and discovered Westside
    23 years old
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    825 Squat
    470 Bench
    645 Deadlift
    1905 total
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  20. #70
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    Thanks for posting Layne! That makes a lot of sense.

    I guess one thing I would ask you is what routine did you make big gains on in your physique when you were getting started in bodybuilding?
    well i did your typical 1 bodypart per day BS and that got me to a decent physique. But the biggest change I ever saw was going to working everything 2x/week. When I first started it the bare bones of it was:

    day 1: lower power
    day 2: upper power
    days 3&4: rest
    day 5: lower hypertrophy
    day 6: upper hypertrophy
    day 7: rest

    the first 2 days I'd pick an exercise for each major muscle group and do 3X3 on it. So for example

    legs I would do squats 3x3, stiff legged deadlifts 3x3, then I would do leg extension & leg curl like 3 sets of 8 each and do some calf work (5-6 sets)

    For upper body I did the same thing except with dumbbell presses and rows. Then I'd do some laterals, curls, and pressdowns for like 3-5 sets of 8-10

    For the hypertrophy day, I'd still do my 'power' exercises but it would be like 3 sets of 10 with only like 60% of my normal 10 rep max. Something not very taxing but still allowed me some stimulation and to learn the movement better.

    Then I would do the rest of the workout with more reps, less workout and about 50-75% more volume than on my 'power' days.

    This was the bare bones that evolved into the power-hypertrophy training I now recommend. It's funny because I put it together before I did any reading on westside and then when i finally read about westside I was like "oh ****" because the principles were somewhat similar only their focus was powerlifting and mine was bodybuilding. So I've been able to blend them a bit more sense with really good results for both goals.

    Here are pictures to illustrate. One pic is from when I was 20; the next is 22; I started this routine about 1.5 years before the 22 year old pic; I think the difference is obvious.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  21. #71
    Resolute -JM-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mutaffis View Post
    Wow, those are some outstanding gains that you have made.

    What kind of diet are you following? Any new supplements or anything? How long have you been training for?
    Thanks Tom.

    I was on a see-food diet. If I would see food, I'd eat it. I have been like that for some time. Recently though in an attempt to recomp I have tried cycling my carbs. After 190 I find it harder to gain quality mass. My weight has been floating between 222-226 for a good while but my strength has steadily increased despite this.
    I only take glucosamine, fish oil, aminos and a multi. I also make sure I get 300g protein a day at the moment.

    I have trained seriously for the last two years. Before this I had been training for 3-4 years on and off but had been treading water in terms of strength.... Meh, I didnt push myself. Now to look back, it was a joke.
    This is the true joy in life, the being used for a purpose recognized by yourself as a mighty one; the being thoroughly worn out before you are thrown on the scrap heap; the being a force of Nature instead of a feverish selfish little clod of ailments and grievances complaining that the world will not devote itself to making you happy - George Bernard Shaw

  22. #72
    ANVIL POWER Detard's Avatar
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    My biggest gains are what i'm getting right now, and its on a program written out by Matt Rhodes about 2 years ago when I sent him a PM.

    This is what he said to me. Ive been using this program for almost 2 years, and when I bulk, I make insane strength gains.

    ME Squat (Close-stance Box Squat, Free Squat, Box Squat)1-5RM
    DL, DL Variation to 1-3RM GM's to 3-5RM
    Low Back 4x10
    Abs 4x10

    ME Bench (Bench, Floor Press, Incline, 2 Board) 1-3RM
    4-5 Board 1-5RM
    Rows 4x10
    Lats 4x10
    Biceps - whatever

    DE Squat 6-8x2@50%, 55%, 60%
    GM's or Pulls (whatever you didn't do on ME Day) 3-5RM
    Leg Press 4x10
    Abs 4x10

    DE Bench 6-8x3@50%, 55%, 60%
    Military Press 4x10
    Rows 4x10
    Rear Delts 4x10
    Triceps - whatever


    I adapt it a little for what my goals are at the time. Right now i'm training for a meet in december, so my goals are get my numbers as high as possible. Othertimes i'll bump up the reps a little more and do some more accessory stuff. I find that when i'm working with heavy singles and triples, I cant get as much accessory work done because its very taxing. If im trying to build some lean mass, I usually work around the 5 rep range, and do more sets, and more accessory stuff.

    This year my squats went from ~405lbs to 535lbs with quite a bit left, Bench from 275 to 350, and deadlift 418 to 505. Bodyweight has increased about 30lbs
    w:225lbs. h:5'10.
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  23. #73
    ANVIL POWER Detard's Avatar
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    Great idea for a thread too. Its interesting seeing all the different types of training people do
    w:225lbs. h:5'10.
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  24. #74
    Male Member waltereckland's Avatar
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    Whatever routine you follow, mix in some negatives and static moves, but don't overdo them. Your muscles need more time to recover.
    "There are a terrible lot of lies going around the world, and the worst of it is half of them are true."

  25. #75
    Wannabebig Member
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    hola bola's 12 day split (3 days on, 1 off, rotating through each body part every 6 days and legs every 4)

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